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....
2007-09-15, 09:40 PM
Lets say my ranger has a favored enemy like undead.

And lets say his second favored enemy is orcs.

If I fight an undead orc, do I get +4 against them, or just +2. And if it is just +2, is it because they're undead, or because they're orcs?

Hario
2007-09-15, 09:48 PM
If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the rangerís bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher.

From SRD

So no it does not stack you only get a +2 bonus versus it. Though as a DM you might houserule it because favored enemy is pretty uncommon unless you run a specific vs. race campaign

Zincorium
2007-09-15, 09:50 PM
Hmm, one of the few original questions I've seen on the boards as of late.

The problem here is that the bonus is unnamed, but it theoretically is from the same source, so I'd say as long as you follow the logic of the favored enemy ability being one source overall rather than multiple sources, it would not stack.

However, you get to increase a bonus by +2 when you gain your second favored enemy, so you can have either a +4 against orcs or +4 against undead, so while they don't stack, you're taking the best one and so either way you're getting a +4 overall.

Edit: Ninja'd, but the +4 portion still applies. Don't forget that additional bonus, it adds up.

KillianHawkeye
2007-09-16, 05:09 AM
It's important here to note that undead creatures do not have subtypes relating to a specific kind of creature the way humanoids do. Even undeads that are generated by applying a template (such as vampire, lich, skeleton, & zombie) lose whatever "racial" subtype they previously had as living creatures. (You don't see orc zombies running around with the Undead [Orc] creature type, for example.)

I think this is because many of these undead have the augmented humanoid subtype which sort of replaces their previous racial subtype. You can't have a subtype with its own subtype, so there will never be a creature that looks like Undead (augmented humanoid [orc]).

Thus, against the zombie orc you would get the favored enemy bonus from undead only, even if your favored enemy bonus against orcs is way better, since it is not really an orc any more.

Jack Mann
2007-09-16, 06:00 AM
It's important here to note that undead creatures do not have subtypes relating to a specific kind of creature the way humanoids do. Even undeads that are generated by applying a template (such as vampire, lich, skeleton, & zombie) lose whatever "racial" subtype they previously had as living creatures. (You don't see orc zombies running around with the Undead [Orc] creature type, for example.)

I think this is because many of these undead have the augmented humanoid subtype which sort of replaces their previous racial subtype. You can't have a subtype with its own subtype, so there will never be a creature that looks like Undead (augmented humanoid [orc]).

Thus, against the zombie orc you would get the favored enemy bonus from undead only, even if your favored enemy bonus against orcs is way better, since it is not really an orc any more.

Not exactly. The rules for applying a subtype do not state that it loses its previous subtypes. Presumably, only templates that specifically remove subtypes. Indeed, the only undead templates in the SRD that remove subtypes (skeleton and zombie) also do not grant the augmented subtype. So, while an orc zombie is simply undead, an orc vampire is undead (augmented humanoid) (orc).

Ecalsneerg
2007-09-16, 06:18 AM
Lets say my ranger has a favored enemy like undead.

And lets say his second favored enemy is orcs.

If I fight an undead orc, do I get +4 against them, or just +2. And if it is just +2, is it because they're undead, or because they're orcs?

You actually have Favored Enemy: Undead and Humanoids (Orcs). Therefore, an Undead Orc isn't a humanoid, so you don't get the +4 bonus.

Crow
2007-09-16, 02:43 PM
You need to take the undead bonus, not the orc.

When your ranger is fighting orcs, he knows what to do- where to hit- to bring them down (and dead) more efficiently.

After they are risen as undead, whatever damage was inflicted to put the orc out of comission in the first place is obviously not a factor anymore. Things that would normally cease an orc's life function do not apply. Your ranger needs to think about what it takes to put an animated corpse out of commission.

So you get the undead bonus, but not the orc bonus.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-09-16, 03:42 PM
Indeed, the only undead templates in the SRD that remove subtypes (skeleton and zombie) also do not grant the augmented subtype. So, while an orc zombie is simply undead, an orc vampire is undead (augmented humanoid) (orc).
None of the sample liches, vampires, or ghosts are listed their "racial" subtype.

Remember, "racial" subtypes, such as Human, Elf, Halfling, Gnome, Dwarf, Goblinoid, Orc, and Reptilian, are specific to the Humanoid type, much the same way as the Native subtype is specific to the Outsider type and the Living Construct subtype is specific to the Construct type.

It's likely the rule mentioning their removal in the Zombie and Skeleton is simply a matter of rules redundancy. Wouldn't be the first type.

Anyway, what Ecalsneerg is correct. You don't take a subtype as a favored enemy. You pick a type, and in certain cases you have to pick a subtype that only works in combination with the main type. For instance, picking Ousider (fire) does not let you apply your favored enemy bonus against other fire creatures, such as fire elementals.

The only time that having two types of favored enemy apply at once as mentioned by the SRD is when fighting a creature with multiple subtypes. Take Outsider (lawful) and Outsider (evil), for example, and they'd both theoretically apply against Devils. However, they don't stack, so you only get the higher bonus.