Help me build a character based around nets

[Pagrek]

So I want to try to make a character build focused on using nets. I feel they're a fun and interesting weapon that got hit hard with restrictions because otherwise they'd be overpowered. So let's see if we can get them to work.

My concept is to take two levels of Fighter, the first to get proficiency in nets and to take the archery fighting style and the second because if you're going fighter anyway you might as well stick around until you get action surge, then go Open Palm Monk. You'd start with a Variant Human, of course, to take the Sharpshooter feat. Crossbow Expert would work too, but since we're taking a suboptimal feat anyway sharpshooter gives us more options we're likely to actually use.

The basic concept is:

Find soft and squishy target

Toss net

If it hits action surge and go flurry of blows


This means that the net's unfortunate property of taking up an entire action without letting your extra attack work is mostly negated, you're missing out on one attack out of a total of six. All damage dealt is bludgeoning, so the net is A-OK. You have advantage on four full attacks allowing you to try to crit fish. Open Palm gives you options of battlefield control, you can shove the netted creature around and use monk mobility to try to stay out of range of other attackers. The target has to choose between attacking or trying to break out with a strength check. I'm not sure if there is a better Monk subclass to take. Perhaps we could also go Paladin for two levels for smite damage when we crit, but that would be a very limited resource so I'm not sure it's worth it.

I'm interested to hear everyone else's analysis of this character's combat worth and their own ideas for a net based character. Also, it is assumed we're going to pester the DM for a better net, with a higher DC to break and resistance to slashing, but since it's not guaranteed we'd get the OK assume a standard net from the PHB that's probably only going to last a round.

[Vogie]

So I want to try to make a character build focused on using nets. I feel they're a fun and interesting weapon that got hit hard with restrictions because otherwise they'd be overpowered. So let's see if we can get them to work.

My concept is to take two levels of Fighter, the first to get proficiency in nets and to take the archery fighting style and the second because if you're going fighter anyway you might as well stick around until you get action surge, then go Open Palm Monk. You'd start with a Variant Human, of course, to take the Sharpshooter feat. Crossbow Expert would work too, but since we're taking a suboptimal feat anyway sharpshooter gives us more options we're likely to actually use.

The basic concept is:

Find soft and squishy target

Toss net

If it hits action surge and go flurry of blows


This means that the net's unfortunate property of taking up an entire action without letting your extra attack work is mostly negated, you're missing out on one attack out of a total of six. All damage dealt is bludgeoning, so the net is A-OK. You have advantage on four full attacks allowing you to try to crit fish. Open Palm gives you options of battlefield control, you can shove the netted creature around and use monk mobility to try to stay out of range of other attackers. The target has to choose between attacking or trying to break out with a strength check. I'm not sure if there is a better Monk subclass to take. Perhaps we could also go Paladin for two levels for smite damage when we crit, but that would be a very limited resource so I'm not sure it's worth it.

I'm interested to hear everyone else's analysis of this character's combat worth and their own ideas for a net based character. Also, it is assumed we're going to pester the DM for a better net, with a higher DC to break and resistance to slashing, but since it's not guaranteed we'd get the OK assume a standard net from the PHB that's probably only going to last a round.

You'd probably go one more level into fighter for Samurai or EK.

Samurai's Fighting Spirit Advantage will negate the disadvantage of net use, but it's limited to a number of uses/LR
Eldritch Knight's spell casting ability to pick up Find Familiar, whom can then use the Help action to negate the disadvantage of net use, but the familiar can be independently targeted and killed off. You could also have a net as a bonded weapon, allowing you to summon one as a bonus action.



If you're starting at a higher level, you can start the fight with Stunning Strike - once the target is stunned, you have advantage on other attacks, such as net throwing. So a successful Stunning Strike could be followed by a action surge Net toss.

If you have the ki for it, you could even do a series of actions:
Stunning Strike -> Flurry of Blows -> Action Surge! -> Throw Net Attack -> Flurry of Blows (EDIT: Nope...)

Because Flurry of Blows specifically states:

Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a bonus action.

and, as it's a weapon, Throwing a net counts as an attack


When you use an action, bonus action, or reaction to attack with a net, you can make only one attack regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make

Which, according to Sage Advice it would be better phrased:

... you can only make one attack regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make with that action.
So while you wouldn't be able to use your extra attack features from Monk and/or Fighter, you CAN make Flurry of Blows attacks.

[nickl_2000]

How about a Kobold Revised Ranger Beastmaster.

Due to pack tactics you Pack Tactics: You have advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of your allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn't incapacitated. So, as a beastmaster you can ride a medium creature and use your one attack (only one attack, so who cares about the weird net thing) to throw the net on them. If the beast is within 5 feet of the creature you are throwing the net at, you get advantage, cancelling out disadvantage form sunlight and ranged distance of the net.

Then your beast gets advantage on it's attack due to the restrained condition.

[Pagrek]

You'd probably go one more level into fighter for Samurai or EK.

If I go Variant Human the feats Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert can already cancel disadvantage, but I like the familiar giving advantage on the net attack. With the proficiency and fighting style along with smart stat distribution you can get a +7 to hit attack modifier at tier one and with a familiar giving advantage that's an effective +12. The target is very netted.


UA Beastmaster

I don't use UA stuff myself, so I'm absolutely ignorant about what's on there. How does that differ from published Beastmaster, does the companion attack seperately?

[nickl_2000]

I don't use UA stuff myself, so I'm absolutely ignorant about what's on there. How does that differ from published Beastmaster, does the companion attack seperately?

Yes, it makes the beastmaster a playable class.

https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_RevisedRanger.pdf

Main differences from level 3
Beast and you act separately, each of you gets an attack and different initiative
Beast loses multiattack, gets PC prof bonus
Add PC prof bonus to AC and to damage rolls
After 3rd level beat gains a Hit die.
When you gain an ASI, so does the beast.
Beast gets favored enemy feature


After that

Coordinated Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you and your animal companion form a more potent fighting team. When you use the Attack action on your turn, if your companion can see you, it can use its reaction to make a melee attack.

Beast’s Defense
At 7th level, while your companion can see you, it has advantage on all saving throws.

Storm of Claws and Fangs
At 11th level, your companion can use its action to make a melee attack against each creature of its choice within 5 feet of it, with a separate attack roll for each target.

Superior Beast’s Defense
At 15th level, whenever an attacker that your companion can see hits it with an attack, it can use its reaction to halve the attack’s damage against it.



Also in general the ranger is a better subclass if your DM will allow it. The coordinated attack feature would word very well with the PC using a net.

[CTurbo]

I had an Archer Fighter with Sharpshooter that used a net sometimes and it was somewhat effective. The DM even let me find/buy a Magic +1 Acid Net with a stronger DC to break(15),more HP to cut(15), and dealt 1d6+1 acid damage on a "hit" and at the beginning of a trapped creatures turn. I got good use of it until it finally got trashed.


I like the Kobold Beastmaster net Archer idea though

[DigitalCharlie]

I'm a huge net fan and have played two different builds that largely revolve around nets.

First, a beastmaster ranger makes a fabulous net machine because when you command your beast to attack you are able to make one weapon attack — which means you can use the net and still have your beast attack. May not seem like much, but if you have a giant poisonous snake it can be a lot of damage. At level 11 or 12 your beast will make 2 attacks when you throw a net. As a bonus, you can cast ensnaring strike and then throw a net, which imposes two separate instances of restrain. Sharpshooter is particularly potent with this combination, as your snake has a 10' reach and you can throw your net without disadvantage from 10/15' that way.

Second, any class with a level of war cleric. You can layer it with the above to get even more flexibility (I did, and I absolutely love it). Or, you could add it to a great weapon master build so that you can get advantage on all your attacks.

Another amusing way to use it would be with a crossbow expert rogue. Action to throw the net, bonus action to shoot the target. I'd always wanted to do this, but never have felt like I could justify it.

[Callak_Remier]

The Sea Elf From Mordekainen tome of foes. Comes with proficiency with Nets which allows you to branch out to other classes if you need

[8wGremlin]

vHuman Hexblade.
Could do this using hex warrior (for charisma attacks), from level 1, and take Prodigy (athletics)

[clash]

I am pretty sure kensei can do damage with nets by making them monk weapons

[Finback]

I just want to note, if the PC's name isn't "Annette", I will be greatly disappointed.

[LudicSavant]

Sadly the best way to use nets is to have minions throw the nets for you. But if you want to do it with martial characters, a Rogue with Crossbow expert loses less than most martials on the deal (They need a Fighter dip or to be a Sea Elf to use nets, but neither of those things are bad choices). They can make the attack in melee without penalty, and then still get their Sneak Attack in via the crossbow expert bonus action. It also grants them a way to give themselves Advantage.

Personally, I find this to be a frustrating limitation of 5e's design, because generally people don't want to make "hand crossbow and net" or "my pet has a net," they want to make a retiarius or something. But D&D apparently hates retiarii. They even made tridents suck for basically no reason.

Seriously, hand crossbow and net? What even is that? Next they'll be wanting us to dual-wield lances on horseback instead of a rapier-and-dagger or katana-and-wakizashi style. Oh wait... they already have that one too...

[MrStabby]

I think that eldritch knight is the best option - and even then only at level 7 with war magic.

War magic lets you use something like booming blade or an attack cantrip as your action and then use a bonus action to throw the net. As a fighter, you get the fighting styles and feats needed to make this work.

[NaughtyTiger]

Because Flurry of Blows specifically states:
Immediately after you take the Attack action on Your Turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a Bonus Action.
and, as it's a weapon, Throwing a net counts as an attack


Martial arts
"You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk Weapons"

The net is not a monk weapon. so you can't just use the unarmed attack bonus action.
are you suggesting that flurry of blows doesn't require the martial arts feature?
that you can wield a non-monk weapon and still flurry? i admit i hadn't considered that.



If you have the ki for it, you could even do a series of actions:
Stunning Strike -> Flurry of Blows -> Action Surge! -> Throw Net Attack -> Flurry of Blows.
you only get 1 bonus action, even with action surge.

[Vogie]

I just want to note, if the PC's name isn't "Annette", I will be greatly disappointed.

That's just a given. Annette Hunter, Annette Chase, Annette Fisher...


I am pretty sure kensei can do damage with nets by making them monk weapons

That's a good point. The net would have scaling damage as a monk weapon. Then they could throw a punch/kick in for good measure. (Edit: Nope...)


Sadly the best way to use nets is to have minions throw the nets for you. But if you want to do it with martial characters, a Rogue with Crossbow expert loses less than most martials on the deal (They need a Fighter dip or to be a Sea Elf to use nets, but neither of those things are bad choices). They can make the attack in melee without penalty, and then still get their Sneak Attack in via the crossbow expert bonus action. It also grants them a way to give themselves Advantage.

I hadn't thought of this... but you're right.

Also, an interesting combination of the above 2... Kensai Monk could make both a Net and a Hand crossbow Monk weapons, so something like a Rogue 3 / Kensai Monk 11 would attack with a 1d8 Net attack then follow it up with a 1d8 hand crossbow shot as a bonus action. (Edit: Nope...)

Also, since you brought it up, a Retiarius Rogue could use the Dual Wielder feat to make an "offhand" Rapier attack to give the same effect without any hand crossbow, while a Retiarius Fighter with DW feat could let you rock the traditional Net & Trident - Net attack, offhand Trident attack, then switch to 2hand trident attacks the following actions (either normal or surges).


I think that eldritch knight is the best option - and even then only at level 7 with war magic.

War magic lets you use something like booming blade or an attack cantrip as your action and then use a bonus action to throw the net. As a fighter, you get the fighting styles and feats needed to make this work.

I wouldn't say it's the best, but fighter, in general, is a really good fit for a net fighter, and EK is the strongest of the fighters.

For example, one could easily be a Net fighter with NO feats whatsoever by choosing an EK, using the True strike cantrip via War Magic to make Net attacks without disadvantage.



Martial arts
"You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk Weapons"

The net is not a monk weapon. so you can't just use the unarmed attack bonus action.
are you suggesting that flurry of blows doesn't require the martial arts feature?
that you can wield a non-monk weapon and still flurry? i admit i hadn't considered that.

you only get 1 bonus action, even with action surge.

That was my bad, I had forgotten that it wasn't a monk weapon. However, you can make it one by selecting Kensai monk. (Edit: Nope...)

And it looks like my table's been reading the Action Surge wrong...


Starting at 2nd level, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and a possible bonus action.

We'd been interpreting it as an additional bonus action, which after some pokery seems like no one else does.

[MrStabby]

That was my bad, I had forgotten that it wasn't a monk weapon. However, you can make it one by selecting Kensai monk.






Its a bit too special.

[NaughtyTiger]

That was my bad, I had forgotten that it wasn't a monk weapon.

does it have to be a monk weapon if you burn the Ki point?

"Immediately after you take the Attack action on Your Turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a Bonus Action."

it just says unarmed strike. so maybe you have to use str and it's 1+str damage, but stunning strike and open hand still works?

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/06/08/flurry-of-blows-does-not-specify-monk-weapon/ is at least hinted at possible

[Vogie]

does it have to be a monk weapon if you burn the Ki point?

"Immediately after you take the Attack action on Your Turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a Bonus Action."

it just says unarmed strike. so maybe you have to use str and it's 1+str damage, but stunning strike and open hand still works?

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/06/08/flurry-of-blows-does-not-specify-monk-weapon/ is at least hinted at possible

That's a good point - even if it isn't a monk weapon, it is an attack action.

And that's all that is required, to trigger a flurry as a bonus action.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

Martial arts
"You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk Weapons"

The net is not a monk weapon. so you can't just use the unarmed attack bonus action.
are you suggesting that flurry of blows doesn't require the martial arts feature?
that you can wield a non-monk weapon and still flurry? i admit i hadn't considered that.


Either way, once you throw the net as an attack you are officially unarmed. So I would rule that you could throw the net then immediately use any of your monk abilities that require a bonus action.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

Another direction for a build. This requires a DM working with you since nets are a special case.

-Human Variant: Get's your build online by level 4.
-Dex-based Totem Barbarian: You can go Str if you want to use a maul, but throwing the net will be a bit harder.
-Dip into Fighter if you want that Action Surge.
-Sharpshooter: For reasons discussed above
-Mounted Combatant: Adv. on throwing net within 5 ft if DM allows you to basically use it like a melee weapon by dropping it on a medium creature from atop your horse. Then you smash them in the chest with your hammer.

I know that requires a houserule, but it's a fun concept that I'd allow in my games.

[Lunali]

Do it by cooperation, get a teammate to throw a net at your monk, deflect missiles to catch it, burn a ki point to throw it, it's now a monk weapon with 20/60 range and does martial arts damage to boot.

[KOLE]

What about a Barbarian Retiarius type?

Before level 5- Throw net recklessly to cancel disadvantage, tap your foe, stand over them menacingly- next turn stab the heck out of them with your trident.

After level 5- throw net recklessly to cancel disadvantage, no longer have to wait a turn to stab poor sucker with your trident, two handed. Next turn do the same, with advantage but without having to reckless attack until your opponent is successfully shishkebabed to death.

I may try this some time, but I have too many Barb characters in the pipeline as is.

[Corran]

The lucky feat nets you (eh, see what I did there?:smallamused:) some advantages to using a net. It is a bit cheat-y though. You attack normally with disadvantage. Roll the dice. Now use one luck die. Now pick the highest of the 3 dice you rolled in total (lucky allows you to pick whichever of the three rolls). So it's like rolling with triple advantage.

A previous campaign ended just one level before I was going to buy a net. Wanted to use it with disintegrate (played a mc sorc with a low-ish charisma of 14, disintegrate was picked because I liked its style, so the net seemed like a good way to increase my chances in the rare occasions I wanted to [quicken] disintegrate against a living creature). I had both lucky and darkness/(gr) invisibility, all of which would help me increase my chances of netting the soon-to-be-disintegrated enemy. Alas, the campaign ended just before I reached the level upon which I would pick disintegrate, thus leading me to buying a net.

[Sage Tellah]

A net user probably wants to bug their friendly local casters for Haste if they can't spare the build resources to get third level slots themselves. Among other things, it gives you an entire extra action that you can attack with that's already restricted to one attack, so you can land a net and still get the rest of your turn.

[Lunali]

The lucky feat nets you (eh, see what I did there?:smallamused:) some advantages to using a net. It is a bit cheat-y though. You attack normally with disadvantage. Roll the dice. Now use one luck die. Now pick the highest of the 3 dice you rolled in total (lucky allows you to pick whichever of the three rolls). So it's like rolling with triple advantage.

Though you may want to check with your DM first, we houseruled that to let you replace either die with the one rolled for lucky. This more or less negates disadvantage but doesn't make it silly by making you more likely to hit when you have disadvantage.

[NaughtyTiger]

throw net recklessly to cancel disadvantage, no longer have to wait a turn to stab poor sucker with your trident, two handed.


reckless attack is melee

net is wierd so you can't use trident for 2nd attack. you could do frenzy barbarian and trident on your bonus action

[NaughtyTiger]

Though you may want to check with your DM first, we houseruled that to let you replace either die with the one rolled for lucky. This more or less negates disadvantage but doesn't make it silly by making you more likely to hit when you have disadvantage.

gah!? horribly nerfing the lucky feat. crawford (ignore as you wish) and sage advice (officially a rule) say it is supposed to be the best of he d20s on the table.
https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SA_Compendium_1.01.pdf
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/600731432437174272

that's just mean.

[Pagrek]

Martial arts
"You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk Weapons"

The net is not a monk weapon. so you can't just use the unarmed attack bonus action.
are you suggesting that flurry of blows doesn't require the martial arts feature?
that you can wield a non-monk weapon and still flurry? i admit i hadn't considered that.

As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, once you've thrown the net it no longer counts as being equipped. So the net can stay stowed until you're ready to throw, then you use your free object interaction to draw it and throw it the same turn. Thus you qualify for all the monk goodies that require you to only have monk weapons equipped, except for the one specific attack you make with your net.


I just want to note, if the PC's name isn't "Annette", I will be greatly disappointed.

I love this. This is now cannon. Why can't I come up with stuff this great.