Bladesinger questions

[MThurston]

1. I'm having problems seeing weapon damage after 1 minute of fighting and then losing your init A.C. boost.

Is there something I am missing? I'm seeing the spell shadow blade but it only last 1 minute. One round after you lose your A.C. boost. I know you can redo the song but you only get 2 per short rest.

Are people just spamming the song and shadow blade?

2. With Shadow Blade Control spells can't be cast.

What are people casting or are they just spamming shield?

3. Is it a good idea to just take Bladesinger for the A.C. boost and just not use melee weapons?

[Snowbluff]

I know a level 20 Bladesinger who ground up from one.

He doesn't have shadowblade, but his big things was disrupting other casters. Antimagic Field was really useful, as you can keep Blade song up during it. Then you just run straight at the enemy caster and beat them up.

[ciarannihill]

1. I'm having problems seeing weapon damage after 1 minute of fighting and then losing your init A.C. boost.

Is there something I am missing? I'm seeing the spell shadow blade but it only last 1 minute. One round after you lose your A.C. boost. I know you can redo the song but you only get 2 per short rest.

Are people just spamming the song and shadow blade?

2. With Shadow Blade Control spells can't be cast.

What are people casting or are they just spamming shield?

3. Is it a good idea to just take Bladesinger for the A.C. boost and just not use melee weapons?

How long are your combats lasting? In my experience with 5E most combats last 2-4 rounds, and even big boss fights rarely last a full minute of in game time.

[MThurston]

I guess that 9-10 rounds is a good amount.

I guess the issue now is concentration spells can't be used with Shadow Blade use. So no haste casting.

[McSkrag]

I guess that 9-10 rounds is a good amount.

I guess the issue now is concentration spells can't be used with Shadow Blade use. So no haste casting.

Think of Haste and Shadowblade as different tools for different situations. Haste is a 3rd level spell that gives you extra AC, speed, and an extra attack. But you lose a round when it ends or gets dispelled. Shadowblade is a 2nd level spell that gives you extra damage of a type that is rarely resisted and it can be upcast for more damage.

As a Bladesinger it's great to have both options available to you.

[MThurston]

Think of Haste and Shadowblade as different tools for different situations. Haste is a 3rd level spell that gives you extra AC, speed, and an extra attack. But you lose a round when it ends or gets dispelled. Shadowblade is a 2nd level spell that gives you extra damage of a type that is rarely resisted and it can be upcast for more damage.

As a Bladesinger it's great to have both options available to you.

Does haste allow you to attack 4 times per turn?

Everytime you make an attack action, you can attack again.

[Man_Over_Game]

Does haste allow you to attack 4 times per turn?

Everytime you make an attack action, you can attack again.

Haste gives you an extra action, but that extra action only grants a single attack if you use it as such.

Based off of @McSkrag 's analysis, you'd want to use Haste in situations with a lot of mundane combatants (archers, warriors, etc), as they're less likely to be able to dispel your Haste or get past your AC. Shadowblade would be better when pure damage is needed (squishy but dangerous foes), in partial darkness (it gets bonuses in dim light), or against casters (who can dispel it, but it's only a level 2 spell. Better than getting Haste dispelled).

Or, in cleaner words, Haste vs. Warriors, Shadowblade vs. Mages.

[vexedart]

4 attacks if hasted and dual wielding.
Haste is a trap though. Got to be careful incase it drops or is dispelled.

[ciarannihill]

4 attacks if hasted and dual wielding.
Haste is a trap though. Got to be careful incase it drops or is dispelled.

Haste has a large potential downside, to be sure, but it's not a "trap". It just grants you such ridiculous benefits that it needed a huge potential downswing if you're not careful.

[Man_Over_Game]

Bladesinging grants you a bonus to your Con saves, equal to your Int modifier. Considering your Con is probably 12-14, and your Int is probably 16-18, then we could reasonably estimate your Con save as being around a 15-16 while bladesinging.

You also are likely packing Shield, and I'd be packing Counterspell just in case. My level 3 spell to counter the boss' level 3 spell is probably in my favor. The Boss probably doesn't have many more level 3 spells to shoot, and if he does, he's likely a mage. A bladesinger without spells is still a nasty combatant to deal with, where a normal wizard without spells is just dead.

If you can burn away a wizard's action and a level 3 spell and all it cost your team was a level 3 spell slot, I'd say that's a win.

[Dualswinger]

Haste also opens up options for those who dual-wield, since it allows you to use your action to cast a spell (Say Booming Blade), then use your haste action to attack, which sets off your off-hand attack.

[MThurston]

Fluff for Bladesinger

1st level Wizard
Cantrip
Booming Blade
Green-Flame Blade
True Strike

1st Level Spell
Shield
Mage Armor

2nd Level Wizard
Bladesinger

1st Level Spell
Absorb Elements

3rd Level Wizard
1st Level
Sudden Awakening

2nd Level
Shadow Blade
Misty Step

4th Level Wizard
+2 Dex gives +1 attack/damage and +1 AC

2nd Level
Gentle Repose

5th Level Wizard

3rd Level
Counter Spell
Thunder Step

6th Level Wizard
You can attack twice.

3rd Level
Tidal Wave

7th Level Wizard

4th Level
Vitriolic Sphere

8th Level Wizard
+2 Dex gives +1 attack/damage and +1 AC

4th Level
Dimension Door

9th Level Wizard

4th Level
Blight

5th Level
Steel Wind Strike

10th Level Wizard
Song of Defense

Cantrip
Mending

5th Level
Cone of Cold

What are your thoughts on this?

[McSkrag]

I am AFB at the moment so off the top of my head...

For cantrips I would take: Booming Blade, Toll the Dead, and Minor Illusion to start. That gives you a melee attack, a ranged attack, and an illusion swiss army knife. Toll the Dead is good for high AC enemies because it is a WIS save.

Also, don't forget Find Familiar at level 1. Owls generally work best with Bladesingers for their flyby ability.

[MThurston]

Isn't that just a wasted spell or do you just cast it once and then never ready it after?

[Snowbluff]

Isn't that just a wasted spell or do you just cast it once and then never ready it after?

Yeah, you just cast it once. You only need to prep it again if you need a new one.

[Mikal]

Isn't that just a wasted spell or do you just cast it once and then never ready it after?

If you're involving your familiar in combat then it's not wasted. You can do it as a ritual so your daily slots are used for it, and since you're a wizard your spellbook is limited mostly by your cash flow and contacts in the arcane libraries and colleges of the world.

[MThurston]

If you're involving your familiar in combat then it's not wasted. You can do it as a ritual so your daily slots are used for it, and since you're a wizard your spellbook is limited mostly by your cash flow and contacts in the arcane libraries and colleges of the world.

To me I don't see the use of a familiar for this build. They don't give you advantage. The spells I have picked above I can cast myself.

[Mikal]

To me I don't see the use of a familiar for this build. They don't give you advantage. The spells I have picked above I can cast myself.

Sorry but it's not clear... why wouldn't they give advantage?

[Millface]

To me I don't see the use of a familiar for this build. They don't give you advantage. The spells I have picked above I can cast myself.

how do they not give you advantage? Your familiar can use the help action to do exactly that on anything that needs an attack roll... If you're a Bladesinger you already have to be an Elf, too, so this stacks incredibly well with the Elven Accuracy feat. You can even get an owl familiar that has flyby so it can get in and use the help action and get back out. I was under the impression that this was kind of a staple to the entire Bladesinger meta.

[MThurston]

Ah, I thought that without attacking they couldn't give advantage.

[Mikal]

Ah, I thought that without attacking they couldn't give advantage.

Nope. They just need to perform the Help action on their turn. Doing so provides advantage on the next attack. With Owl's flyby, they can swoop in, Help, swoop out, setting you up without getting an AoO on them.

Though intelligent foes might spend an action to target it, or cast an AoE it would be caught in, thus the need to recast it.

Also why Find Familiar is a great spell for Arcane Tricksters!

[Citan]

1. I'm having problems seeing weapon damage after 1 minute of fighting and then losing your init A.C. boost.

Is there something I am missing? I'm seeing the spell shadow blade but it only last 1 minute. One round after you lose your A.C. boost. I know you can redo the song but you only get 2 per short rest.

Are people just spamming the song and shadow blade?

2. With Shadow Blade Control spells can't be cast.

What are people casting or are they just spamming shield?

3. Is it a good idea to just take Bladesinger for the A.C. boost and just not use melee weapons?


I guess that 9-10 rounds is a good amount.

I guess the issue now is concentration spells can't be used with Shadow Blade use. So no haste casting.
Hi!
I'm glad to find finally someone else for whom fights usually drag on around a minute (or more sometimes ^).


Think of Haste and Shadowblade as different tools for different situations. Haste is a 3rd level spell that gives you extra AC, speed, and an extra attack. But you lose a round when it ends or gets dispelled. Shadowblade is a 2nd level spell that gives you extra damage of a type that is rarely resisted and it can be upcast for more damage.

As a Bladesinger it's great to have both options available to you.
Basically this.
Haste is great when you are not under much threat from ranged attacks: depending on your target, you can either chain 4 attacks against it (Extra Attack + Dual-wielding + extra action for Attack) or you can instead do the "regular 3 attacks" and use extra action to Disengage safely.
In both cases, with 80 base speed (30 + 10 from Bladesong, sum doubled by Haste) you have a good margin to close in, attack, then draw out.

But as others said, the drawback of being "stunned" for one round can put you in life-threatening situation.
So it should be used very scarcely until you get either Resilient: Constitution, or lvl 10 feature, or both. ;)

Or if you get hands on a Ring of Spell Storing, you could put Haste in it and lend it to your sturdy (ranged) Rogue or (preferably EK) Fighter to cast on you. ;)

In other situations, Shadow Blade is a very good "standard option" when you have no offensive spell that would have a high chance to stick (Hold Person, Blindness, Fear, Slow, Hypnotic Pattern etc).

[MaxWilson]

4 attacks if hasted and dual wielding.
Haste is a trap though. Got to be careful incase it drops or is dispelled.

Haste is mostly useful for the movement/defensive benefits. You can move 80'+ feet (while Bladesinging) and get a free Disengage or Hide attempt. Using it for extra attacks is kind of a waste, since you burn 2 attacks just to cast it in the first place.

Think of it as a higher level version of Expeditious Retreat, with yes, a big downside if you lose concentration.


Hi!
I'm glad to find finally someone else for whom fights usually drag on around a minute (or more sometimes ^).

I've seen fights that last mere seconds (1-2 rounds), fights that last minutes, and even Mexican standoffs that last hours. It really depends on how cagey the combatants are being. Stealth-on-stealth fights tend to take longer than Pickett's Charge fights, for example.

[Man_Over_Game]

Totally forgot about the mobility element to Haste. Cast that sucker on my monk, and he could move 320 feet in 6 seconds.

That's over 36 MPH.

Now just have him take Magic Initiate, for Tenser's Floating Disk, and hang onto your butts, foks.

[KOLE]

Holy cow. I never realized how good familiar were. Needless to say I’m rebuilding my Arcane trickster 9/Bladesinger x High Elf. Thanks for the hot tip.

[Snowbluff]

Holy cow. I never realized how good familiar were. Needless to say I’m rebuilding my Arcane trickster 9/Bladesinger x High Elf. Thanks for the hot tip.

I don’t know if someone mentioned it, but just having the familiar in your square (ie, adjacent to your SA target), you would qualify for SA.

Also I want to do a rogue wizard. I wouldn’t necessarily go BS, but magical ambush plus wizard spells is good.

[KOLE]

I don’t know if someone mentioned it, but just having the familiar in your square (ie, adjacent to your SA target), you would qualify for SA.

Also I want to do a rogue wizard. I wouldn’t necessarily go BS, but magical ambush plus wizard spells is good.

I think Magical Ambush is one of the most potent archetype abilities in the game. I don’t normally make multiclass builds that come online after level 6-8, but when I discovered Magical Ambush, the temptation was too strong. I’m holding on to it until I’m in a campaign I know will go until at least level 15 though.

Diviner is certainly tempting as another option, and Evoker is strong (Magical Ambush + Their ability to maximize a spells damage), but my build is a melee oriented AT exploiting BB for all it’s worth, so Bladesinger makes the most sense.

[Snowbluff]

I think Magical Ambush is one of the most potent archetype abilities in the game. I don’t normally make multiclass builds that come online after level 6-8, but when I discovered Magical Ambush, the temptation was too strong. I’m holding on to it until I’m in a campaign I know will go until at least level 15 though.

Diviner is certainly tempting as another option, and Evoker is strong (Magical Ambush + Their ability to maximize a spells damage), but my build is a melee oriented AT exploiting BB for all it’s worth, so Bladesinger makes the most sense.

Definitely. Basically a free disadvantage on a save is hard to get.

I did a cleric/rogue in a high stat game. I banished a balor. :3