Need some advice for my beginner Paladin/Hexblade

[OctoHex]

Hi all!

I started playing D&D again after a 30 year hiatus (since AD&D 2e), gathering with a group of other dad friends.
We only get to meet up around once a month, so level progression is slow. We started at Lvl 1 in February and should finally be reaching Level 4 this week...

Being so distantly removed from the game, I opted to start pretty simple with a Paladin. I had not read any of the myriad of optimization guides out there at the time, so I really just designed the character on fluff. Not saying that's bad - there are just a few things I wasn't aware of that could have made things a little better.

I ended up with a wood elf vengeance paladin, strength based. In retrospect, I wish I'd known that Dex paladins could be a thing - because that would have made more sense. But here we are.

Stats are as follows:
Str 15 Dex 13 Con 13 Int 8 Wis 10 Cha 15
DM is running a no-feat game

I've been interested in multi-classing into Hexblade for a few reasons:
1) Ranged attacks with EB
2) Them short rest slots
3) It actually fits pretty well, thematically, with my character
4) Fjord does make it look pretty cool

I'm currently at Paladin Lvl 3, and as we're about 300 xp from Lvl 4 going into this Friday's session, I'm trying to figure out my best move forward. I'd really appreciate it if some of your more experienced folks would lend some advice!

In my mind, I've got 2 main options:

1) Make the move over to Hexblade now. Perhaps it would have been better at Lvl 2, but I didn't. This would give me Hex, cantrips & another spell slot. Hex warrior wouldn't do much for me at this stage, since my Str = Cha.

2)Continue on with Paladin up through level 6, to get the extra attack and Aura of Protection. At this rate, I imagine that will happen some time next year... After that, move into Hexblade and devote the next several Lvl up's to that. I'm leaning in this direction.
The big question I have then, is how to spend my ASI at Lvl 4.

As mentioned above, DM is not allowing feats in our game; so it's all about assigning those 2 points. I know now that odd numbers aren't great. So, I'm thinking of moving to:
A) Str 16 & Cha 16, for extra damage & paladin power (and keeping in mind the later move to Hexblade)
B) Str 16 & Con 14, for extra damage & more HP, better Con saves
C) Con 14 & Cha 16, for Con saves, HP & paladin power

I'm not sure if magic items are likely to show up in the future. We're in a frontier military detachment in-game, and so we rarely find loot and have nowhere to spend it. I think I've only amassed about 50 gold in the whole game thus far, so buying things like Str belts as a boost is probably out.

Which of these options do you all think is the better path? Or is there one that I'm missing?
Thanks for looking, and even more if you respond!

[BaconAwesome]

IMHO, the biggest advantage of the Padlock is that it lets you free up some ASIs for feats. Since your campaign doesn't have feats, I guess a level of hexblade would let you:

- Have an 18 attack and spell stat by Lev 9 and a 20 by 13.

- Have a cheap distance attack

- Do more damage through the short rest slot for smites, hex, and hexblade's curse.

On the other hand, you're looking at some really good stuff from paladin through at least level 6. (I'm not super excited by Relentless Avenger, so I wouldn't mind delaying that).

The upside is that both straight paladins and padlocks are strong enough that you can't go wrong - take whatever works for your character and enjoy it!

[Nidgit]

I would probably stick to Paladin through Level 6, giving your +1s to Con and Cha along the way, and then start on Hexblade as much as you want.

[Man_Over_Game]

The bonuses provided by getting one level into Hexblade can't be stated enough. Two cantrips, Two level 1 spells (one could be the awesome Shield), two recharging spell slots (works well with divine smite), and some ludicrous stopping power against a boss once per short rest (so roughly 3 times a day).

Even excluding the Charisma-based attacking, delaying your aura by one level is definitely worth it.

I'd start as Paladin, to get you the better armor proficiency for later. Then grab 1 level into Hexblade, then continue down the Paladin levels. If you need more RP elements, go a second level into Warlock, as the invocations you get from it are some of the best RP elements in the game (including casting Disguise Self at will, and super darksight).

[OctoHex]

Yeah, in retrospect, I’d have started off as hex blade or dex pally with medium armor.

Flavor-wise, my Paladin follows an Elven god of wrath, and I’ve pulled a lot of inspiration from the Eldar bloody-handed god of war from WH40k. Lots of blood, fire and anger from my elf. After level 1, she has done a pretty good job kicking ass.

[Man_Over_Game]

Yeah, in retrospect, I’d have started off as hex blade or dex pally with medium armor.

Flavor-wise, my Paladin follows an Elven god of wrath, and I’ve pulled a lot of inspiration from the Eldar bloody-handed god of war from WH40k. Lots of blood, fire and anger from my elf. After level 1, she has done a pretty good job kicking ass.

You needn't worry so much. Hexblades don't need much Charisma, and going Strength as your primary means you can afford Plate and not need any kind of Dex stat. Your AC will be higher, and you'll have more options with your paladin abilities than most paladins with your relatively high Charisma. Dex means that the character would be easier to build and cheaper when considering gold, but Str will inevitably result in a higher AC.

Vengeance Paladin is freakin' great. Combine it with Hexblade, and you're rolling with advantage + crit range of 19/20, which is about a 20% chance to crit each attack. Keep in mind, you can spend your Divine Smite AFTER you hit, and the Divine Smite is considered weapon damage dice for the sake of critting. So you can spend the Divine Smite after you know that the crit has already been made, but before damage is dealt, giving you what they call a "paladin nova".

Combine that with the fact that Warlocks get 2 spell slots recharged each short rest, and spell slots are interchangeable in DnD 5e between classes, and you can see where the fun starts.


Also, take note of Wrathful Smite, a spell available to both Hexblades and Paladins. It has the unique feature that, after it hits and the save is failed, it requires an action + Wisdom CHECK to remove the frightened condition. Note that the Frightened condition poses disadvantage on wisdom checks. This means that once Wrathful Smite is applied, the enemy isn't going to be getting rid of it without running out of combat. While smite spells have to be "pre-casted" (unlike Divine Smite, which can be cast after the hit is confirmed), your advantage to hit from Vengeance's Channel Divinity will make most of your hits confirm anyway.

On a side note, this build with feats as someone with elvish blood results in one of the strongest builds I've ever seen. I actually wrote some stuff about it on here and RPG Stack exchange. You can get Elven Accuracy (feat in Xanathar's) that grants you 3d20 rather than 2d20 when you have advantage, and with Vengeance Paladin, that will be all the time. That would make your crit chance about 27% each hit. With 2-3 hits a turn (depending if you're dual wielding or not), your crit chance would be over 60% each turn.

[McSkrag]

Since you are definitely planning on Hexblade I would go with option (C) +1 CON, +1 CHA for your next ASI. You won't need more STR and CON 14 and CHA 16 will both help you.

I think there is something to be said for taking Hexblade earlier even if it delays key Paladin levels. You can start using your CHA for melee and it will give you some extra tools and versatility that can make the journey to higher levels more fun.

[Corran]

What is your weapon setup?

I noticed you didn't mention hex warrior (ie the hexblade 1st level feature that lets you use charisma instead of strength/dex with your attacks) in the list of benefits that a hexblade dip would grant you, so I am guessing you are wielding a two handed weapon. If so, I think it's better to go up to at least paladin 6 before taking any hexblade levels, in order not to delay the extra attack and the aura of protection (which in the absence of feats, is one of the few things that can help with your concentration checks; the bless spell also helps here).

In the absence of feats (more specifically, since you cannot pick up the feat warcaster), I think the two handed weapon choice is the best one (it also synergizes well with features like vow of enmity and the hexblade's curse that boost your offense), mainly because it lets you use spells like shield and absorb elements (very important spells that I would encourage you to pick up when you take hexblade levels), something that you wouldn't be able to do if you were using a shield (at least without dropping your weapon, which is not a great idea, first and foremost because it takes away the ability to threaten enemies with opportunity attacks if they decide to leave your reach and reach your more fragile allies). So I would encourage considering changing to a two hander (assuming there is one available) if you are not already using one.

If two hander, and since it would take 3 warlock levels before being able to use your charisma instead of strength for attacking (and since both your str and cha are at 15 right now), I would use my 4th level ASI to boost STR and CHA (+1, +1). At some later point, I would use another ASI to boost DEX and CON (+1, +1; to have 14 in both, which is a nice round number:smallsmile:), but probably after I had maxed charisma.

[Keravath]

There are a number of factors you might want to consider.

What is your party composition and your usual role? Do you use two handed weapons or one handed ones? Does the DM have any issues with either multi-classing or hexblades in particular (if they aren't using feats they also might not be using multiclassing).

One of the big advantages for hexblade with a paladin is that you can use charisma as your attack and damage stat. This means that you can focus on increasing charisma rather than other stats. Hex warrior does not apply to two handed weapons though unless that weapon is also your pact weapon. So if you wield two handed weapons then you might want to go to at least warlock 3 for Pact of the Blade.

Since you are just coming back to the game, you might not realize just how much of a jump in power is represented by character level 5 in many cases in 5e. Martial classes get Extra Attack allowing two attacks for each Attack action and casters get access to 3rd level spells which is generally a big step up. Since you play relatively infrequently, the odds are good that you will notice the difference if everyone else playing goes to level 5 as a straight class while you take your first or second level of hexblade. Depending on how slow the progression is in your campaign and the other characters in your party, there may be quite a while when you feel a bit behind the power curve.

If you like to use two handed weapons you will likely want at least three levels of hexblade.

Warlocks only get one spell slot at level 1 (unlike most other caster classes) ... however, choosing hex and shield as your spells can be very useful. BUT :) ... casting shield easily may depend on whether your table strictly follows the spell requirements for V,S,M components or not, and whether you have a two handed weapon or one handed+shield. Usually the Warcaster feat is needed to be able to cast shield while also holding a shield and one handed weapon ... but you aren't using feats so I am not sure how this is being handled in your game.

Two levels of hexblade are great for the invocations. Eldritch blast + agonizing blast gives you decent, scalable, at will ranged force damage to which only two monsters are immune. Devils sight, mask of many faces can be good or if you take 3 levels of warlock you can look at improved pact weapon (depending on how common magic is in your game) or eldritch smite for the rare occasion you might want to blow a lot of resources and both smite and eldritch smite an opponent.

Finally, the level 5 and 6 paladin features are highly desirable.

So ...

- if you want to use charisma to attack with one handed weapons, want a couple of cantrips/spells and a spell slot ... and aren't concerned about feeling a bit underpowered at level 5 when everyone else gets a pretty big bump ... or if you really like the idea for roleplay reasons ... take a level (or 2) of hexblade next

- if you are concerned about level 5 or really want the admittedly really good level 5 and 6 paladin features then wait until level 7-8 to take the hexblade levels

- if you are certain that you want to take a level in hexblade at some point soon then bump con and charisma with the ASI when you get it (you are only +1 behind on to hit and damage until you get hexblade ... unless you use 2 handed weapons).


Progressions:
6 paladin + 1-3 hexblade (then either paladin->11 or more hexblade or some of both)
4 paladin + 1 hexblade + 2 paladin + 1 hexblade + ??? (this gets the ASI for paladin 4 in first - one level delay in level 5 and 6 features).

[OctoHex]

You're right, I did overlook a few bits of information:

Party Makeup:
We're a 4 person team:
Vengeance Pally (me)
Ranged Fighter
Shadow Monk
Lore Bard

Most of the time, the Bard & Archer hang back, while the Monk and I spread out. There's a lot of horde action in our campaign, so far... So, I'm not sure that AoP is worth it at this point.

Weapon Loadout:
I am currently running sword & board, and chose the Dueling fighting style at level 2.
At this point, that gives me +4 to hit and a baseline 1D8+4 damage with my sword. I also get the benefit of the +2 AC with the shield, bringing me up to 18 AC with chainmail. I also carry a hand crossbow for occasions where I can't get up close.

Thinking ahead to my possible dip into Hexblade, I did work with the DM to design a shield variant. Due to the shape of the shield, I can choose to wear it in standard position (which gives me the +2 AC) or I can rotate it to free up my hand (but it only gives +1 AC). I have to decide which way I'm wearing it in advance, or take the time to switch it - so I can't change it on the fly. This would free up my hand for somatic warlock spells, since Warcaster's not an option. Maybe I'll be able to upgrade my armor sometime soon, to make up for it. It also gives me the option to 2-hand my long sword - but that's not really a benefit after the damage bonus from Dueling.

So far, the DM doesn't seem to be much of a stickler for the casting details, so the free hand may not be an issue. I'd prefer to generally follow the rules / be prepared for when he does get firm about it, though.

Sounds like it's in my best interest to keep on Palading until at least Lvl 5, for the extra attack & find steed.

So either:
Paladin 6 > Hexblade +
Paladin 5 > Hexblade 1 > Paladin 6
Paladin 5 > Hexblade 2 > Paladin 6 > Hexblade +
Paladin 5 > Hexblade +

I'm thinking of using my Lvl 4 ASI to +1 Con & Cha. That'll put my Cha bonus at +3 once I switch to Hexblade, making HexWarrior worth it; while also increasing my spell prep, attack bonus & save DC in the mean time. With the Con, I'll get the boost to concentration saves + more HP

[Galadhrim]

Aura of Protection is still really strong, even if the rest of your party does not benefit from the aura. It will increase your con save, something that you cannot do otherwise since there are no feats. With a maxed charisma, your Con save is up to +7 which is fairly strong. I would go Paladin 5->HB 1->Paladin 6. After that you can decide what is more important to you between Paladin and Warlock levels. Personally I would keep going in Paladin up until Paladin 9 and 3rd level spells, and probably at least until paladin 11.

[OctoHex]

Good point, I forgot that Aura of Protection applied to me, as well!

Thanks for your input everybody. I think I'm going to dip into Hexblade at Lvl 6, then decide if Lvl 7 should be P6 or H2 afterward.