Q: What did Elan with the belt of Femininity/Masculinity? [Archive]

Aidan

2018-09-19, 10:44 PM

You're forgetting the arc where Roy wears it while at the hotel, way back in No Cure for the Paladin Blues.When they were away from danger, Durkon breaks the curse, and the belt is left behind.

On strip 233 Roy puts it on

FriendComputer

2018-09-19, 11:24 PM

Yanisa

2018-09-20, 10:08 AM

The real question is: what did Durkon do with the belt of Femininity/Masculinity?

He is still holding it in #249 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0249.html) and afterwards it is never seen again.

martianmister

2018-09-20, 10:49 AM

The real question is: what was Elan planning when he took it with him?

NerdyKris

2018-09-20, 10:58 AM

He was planning to use it at a dramatically appropriate moment in order to do the "dress up as a woman to fool the bad guys" cliche.

This is Elan we're talking about.

Grey_Wolf_c

2018-09-20, 11:01 AM

Elan planning

There's your problem

Grey Wolf

Quebbster

2018-09-20, 12:30 PM

He was planning to use it at a dramatically appropriate moment in order to do the "dress up as a woman to fool the bad guys" cliche.

This is Elan we're talking about.
He recognized Chekov's belt when he saw it.

Ornithologist

2018-09-20, 02:19 PM

There's your problem

Grey Wolf

To be fair, Elan does make plans. The question is, do they intersect with the plane of reality at any given point?

The Pilgrim

2018-09-20, 03:57 PM

To be fair, Elan does make plans. The question is, do they intersect with the plane of reality at any given point?

In the case of calling Julio to Windy Canyon, yes, it did.

I think that was the first time Elan made plans and planned ahead, though.

NerdyKris

2018-09-20, 03:58 PM

Sending the note to Julio Scoundrel so he arrives just in the nick of time to save them was a pretty ingenious plan that relied on his bardic knowledge of the rules of drama.

Riftwolf

2018-09-20, 03:59 PM

The real real question would be what would happen if V put on the belt?
Other than a 300 post V-morality thread, obvs

Grey Watcher

2018-09-20, 04:12 PM

I had always assumed it was just left in/near the ruins of the inn. Outside chance that, when she put the Order in chains, Miko picked it up and brought it back to Azure City to be locked up in some vault somewhere so that it won't contribute to further shenanigans. Either way, I'm pretty sure we're not seeing it again.

The real real question would be what would happen if V put on the belt?
Other than a 300 post V-morality thread, obvs

My money's on "Nothing that anyone (with the possible exception of Inkyrius) would even notice."

Fish

2018-09-20, 04:18 PM

It ended up in my avatar.

The Pilgrim

2018-09-20, 04:25 PM

The real real question would be what would happen if V put on the belt?
Other than a 300 post V-morality thread, obvs

V would switch genders, and would keep looking and acting exactly the same as V does now.

...

Naaah, too boring.

If V put on the Belt, it would cause an existential paradox that would trigger an implosion of unpredictable magnitude.

Therefore, the Belt will be an important plot point at the final confrontation, as when the last gate gets destroyed and everything seems lost, the Belt will somewhat appear, and Roy will toss V into the Snarl's demiplane and have the Elf put the belt on. With that self-sacrifice, V will also earn redemption for the Familicide Spell.

Kish

2018-09-20, 05:07 PM

The real real question would be what would happen if V put on the belt?
Other than a 300 post V-morality thread, obvs
This isn't Tomb of Horrors. Even if you go through a door shaped like a demon's mouth, getting your sex reversed doesn't particularly go with getting your alignment reversed.

KorvinStarmast

2018-09-20, 05:40 PM

If V put on the Belt, ... V would fall madly in love with Belkar. :smalleek:

ti'esar

2018-09-20, 06:01 PM

It ended up in my avatar.

...whoa, never noticed that before. I always thought your avatar was just a "rule 63" thing.

The MunchKING

2018-09-20, 06:31 PM

The real question is: what did Durkon do with the belt of Femininity/Masculinity?

He is still holding it in #249 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0249.html) and afterwards it is never seen again.

I assumed from a story perspective once he hit it with Break Enchantment it depowered the belt.

I know that's not how it normally works, but normally the belt only works once so *shrug*.

Kish

2018-09-20, 07:16 PM

There is no official sex-changing belt in 3.5ed, but "character's gender changes" is a standard drawback, for items with a positive use but also a drawback.

I see no reason to expect "only works once" or "ceases to be magical if Remove Curse is cast on the wearer once" from this particular belt. The belt is clearly depicted falling off Roy but remaining intact, and being picked up by Durkon.

martianmister

2018-09-20, 08:07 PM

I just noticed that the original owner of that belt was the first and maybe the only transgender character in this comic.

Goblin_Priest

2018-09-20, 08:11 PM

Quebbster

2018-09-21, 06:21 AM

I assumed from a story perspective once he hit it with Break Enchantment it depowered the belt.

I know that's not how it normally works, but normally the belt only works once so *shrug*.

The belt worked both for the original owner as well as Roy, so there's no reason to assume it was a one-use-only item.
Though it is curious the original owner reverted back to their original form when the belt was removed, but Roy needed a Remove Curse to get his Trouser Titan back.

SlashDash

2018-09-21, 06:43 AM

The real question is: what was Elan planning when he took it with him?
Well, he experimented in camp...
And Nale had Sabine change her shape during their romps.

I just noticed that the original owner of that belt was the first and maybe the only transgender character in this comic.
I don't think so. If it requires break enchantment than it's a cursed item, isn't it?

It seems like it was created to punish\prank\whatever (like Edwin's tale in Baldure's gate 2) rather than for a person who actually wanted it for such a reason.

Zyzzyva

2018-09-21, 07:01 AM

...whoa, never noticed that before. I always thought your avatar was just a "rule 63" thing.

Yeah, it's a geat pic, eh? :smallsmile:

I don't think so. If it requires break enchantment than it's a cursed item, isn't it?

It seems like it was created to punish\prank\whatever (like Edwin's tale in Baldure's gate 2) rather than for a person who actually wanted it for such a reason.

Sure, it was probably created to that end, but, I mean, it's D&D. "This cursed item is the best problem-solving tool we have!" is not an uncommon experience.

My money is on "its mechanically 'cursed' nature prevents unintentional removal!", personally. :smallwink:

NerdyKris

2018-09-21, 07:41 AM

The belt worked both for the original owner as well as Roy, so there's no reason to assume it was a one-use-only item.
Though it is curious the original owner reverted back to their original form when the belt was removed, but Roy needed a Remove Curse to get his Trouser Titan back.

If I'm not mistaken, cursed items can be removed when the bearer is killed. Otherwise you wouldn't need to detect the curse, you'd just know when the item can't be taken off the body.

Fish

2018-09-21, 10:15 AM

I just noticed that the original owner of that belt was the first and maybe the only transgender character in this comic.
There was an ogre in the original Baldur’s Gate who carried (and possibly wore) a Girdle of Gender. The person who gives you the mission said there was something odd about the ogre, that it had a fetish for belts. Perhaps the ogre in the comic is an homage to that one.

What gate? Baldur’s, of course.

Sure, it was probably created to that end, but, I mean, it's D&D. "This cursed item is the best problem-solving tool we have!" is not an uncommon experience.
The One Ring comes to mind.

martianmister

2018-09-21, 10:30 AM

Well, he experimented in camp...
And Nale had Sabine change her shape during their romps.

It ended up in my avatar.

Looks like Elan and Nale had similar tastes in sexyality.

Finagle

2018-09-22, 09:39 AM

The Girdle flashes when it's put on and loses its magic after it does its dirty work (http://www.tgfa.org/rpg/items/girdle.htm). So Dispel Magic wouldn't let you take it off. Heck, you could take it off freely, but it wouldn't reverse the effect. They also don't even exist in 3.5, which is what OOTS ostensibly uses. It's just an outdated leftover from an era in which DMs delighted in pulling "gotcha" bull**** on their players.

Grey Watcher

2018-09-22, 10:33 AM

bc56

2018-09-22, 10:42 AM

He recognized Chekov's belt when he saw it.

The question is, what did Chekov want the belt for?

Sorry.

But yeah, since the version in the comic cannot be willingly removed, it stands to reason that Elan never used it.

Linneris

2018-09-22, 10:45 AM

I assume the Girdle stopped providing its enchantment when its original wearer died, thus allowing it to be reused — and Durkon's Remove Curse probably stripped it of its magic and made it an ordinary belt.

It's not how it's supposed to work in 2E, but this is not 2E. The item is not in 3/3.5E, so it works however the comic establishes it does.

He recognized Chekov's belt when he saw it.

I think Anton Chekhov (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun), the Russian writer, has more to do with this trope than Ensign Pavel Chekov (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekovsGun). </nitpick>

Kish

2018-09-22, 10:50 AM

I don't get why anyone thinks the belt lost its magic. Ever. When Durkon casts Remove Curse, the belt falls off Roy; it doesn't stay on him while he goes back to being male.

Lacuna Caster

2018-09-22, 11:03 AM

I think Anton Chekhov (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun), the Russian writer, has more to do with this trope than Ensign Pavel Chekov (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekovsGun). </nitpick>
I like your style, Linneris! Don't ever change.

Quebbster

2018-09-22, 04:10 PM

The Pilgrim

2018-09-22, 06:30 PM

In my native tongue the names are homophonous heterographs, it never occurred to me they might be confused for one another.

Homophonous? It was my understanding that the russian surname Chekhov is spelled like "Chéjov" (stress in the first syllable), while the surname of the beloved Start Trek character Chekov (spelled with a hard K, with the stress in the last syllable) isn't a russian (or even slavic) surname at all. Corrupting and misspelling names of foreign origin (let alone from languages that doesn't share the same alphabet) is a common thing in all languages.

martianmister

2018-09-23, 09:17 AM

To be fair, Ensign Chekov's name is, probably, just a misspelled version of Chekhov.

Harbinger

2018-09-23, 09:21 AM

Homophonous? It was my understanding that the russian surname Chekhov is spelled like "Chéjov" (stress in the first syllable), while the surname of the beloved Start Trek character Chekov (spelled with a hard K, with the stress in the last syllable) isn't a russian (or even slavic) surname at all. Corrupting and misspelling names of foreign origin (let alone from languages that doesn't share the same alphabet) is a common thing in all languages.

The 'kh' vs 'k' thing is just due to the fact that most English speakers can't pronounce the 'kh' sound and 'k' is the closest they can come. Sort of like how the Arabic name Khalid is usually pronounced like 'Kaleed'.

The Pilgrim

2018-09-23, 09:46 AM

The 'kh' vs 'k' thing is just due to the fact that most English speakers can't pronounce the 'kh' sound and 'k' is the closest they can come. Sort of like how the Arabic name Khalid is usually pronounced like 'Kaleed'.

Mmmh... I thought the closest you got was the h like in "ham" or "hurt", the k was supposed to be there to give a little more emphasis to the h.

In my native language, spanish, it is funny because we have a perfectly valid "J" sound that gets the job done and everyone knows how to spell, but as the official international transliteration rules convert those foreign nouns to "kh" we end up spelling it as K, too.

Linneris

2018-09-23, 04:03 PM

The real real question would be what would happen if V put on the belt?
Other than a 300 post V-morality thread, obvs
In the Gygax magazine strips, part of the joke about them being a different continuity was that details we didn't know anyway, such as Belkar's backstory and V's gender, were different. V looked different but just as androgynous. I assume that would be what would happen if V put on the belt: looking a little different, but still androgynous, and we still wouldn't know V's gender.

As for the Russian "kh" sound, a close analogue would be "ch" in "loch" or the German word "Buch".

hroþila

2018-09-23, 04:28 PM

Mmmh... I thought the closest you got was the h like in "ham" or "hurt", the k was supposed to be there to give a little more emphasis to the h.
H /h/ and kh /x/ sound relatively similar to Spanish ears, perhaps partly because /x/ is actually pronounced [h] in many dialects (Andalusian comes to mind), but apparently that's not a universal perception. Historically, it might well be that more languages have replaced /x/ with /k/ than with /h/ in loanwords. Finnish, for example, sometimes has /k/ corresponding to Proto-Germanic /x/: kansa < *xansō (Hansa), kuokka < *xōka (hook), kana < *xanjō (hen). Since Finnish has and always had a /h/ phoneme, those borrowings must have happened before /x/ became /h/ in initial position in Proto-Germanic.

The Pilgrim

2018-09-23, 05:15 PM

Well when I was learning russian, I never got any complaint from my russian native teachers for pronuncing the russian /x/ like a slightly softened spanish "j". Got a lot more trouble attempting to get right their many letters that to my spanish biaised ears sound just like variants of an "s".

But I am afraid we are reaching a point at which we would need to actually provide voice records in order to advance on the issue. :smalltongue:

(As for andalusian dialects, they vary a lot among territories, though due to the widespread of Flamenco music, most people tend to assume all andalusians spell like andalusian roma people).

Reboot

2018-09-25, 07:06 PM

Whatever the properties of the D&D item that inspired it, the Girdle in the comic can be reused, since the ogre it was taken from turned from male-bodied to female-bodied. Thus, if it was a one shot item, it wouldn't have any magic left for Roy to use at the Inn. I do stand by my theory that it was abandoned, possibly to be picked up by a transperson who just happened to be looking for a way to transition more fully. ;-)

There's a school of thought that the last person who wants to pick it up would be a transperson - they could end up going from male/female-bodied with gender dysphoria to female/male-bodied...still with gender dysphoria. It's a cursed item, even when it looks like it does something you want, it will probably screw it into "be careful what you wish for."

Linneris

2018-09-29, 04:10 AM

There's a school of thought that the last person who wants to pick it up would be a transperson - they could end up going from male/female-bodied with gender dysphoria to female/male-bodied...still with gender dysphoria. It's a cursed item, even when it looks like it does something you want, it will probably screw it into "be careful what you wish for."
Not that The Giant would ever touch the subject given his regrets about this story arc, but it's probably not how it works in OOTS. Roy expressed a strong desire to return to his birth sex after donning the belt. If it kept a transgender person's dysphoria, wouldn't it also keep a cisgender person's contentment about their current sex? Another way of looking at it is that the belt doesn't seem to rewrite any mental characteristics, and gender identity would fall under that.

On a related note, I remember being confused when I first read #9. "Why did Roy discard the belt? It's an awesome item!" ...Long story short, when I began my transition, I realized my opinion on this matter probably wasn't indicative of most people.