Paired magic weapons

[ciarannihill]

Curious if anyone who's played a game with a party member who used TWF has used or considered using paired magic weapons, that is to say magic weapons that only have abilities or have enhanced abilities when used as a pair. Perhaps the player acquires one and it becomes a goal of theirs to find the other? Might be a cool way to give them a "signature weapon" feel, too.

For a very rough example:


Scimitar of Dawn
+1 weapon, when attuned to by a creature who has also attuned to the Scimitar of Dusk acts as a +2 weapon and deals an additional 1d6 Radiant damage when dealing damage to Undead or Fiend creatures.

Scimitar of Dusk
+1 weapon, when attuned to by a creature who has also attuned to the Scimitar of Dawn acts as a +2 weapon and deals an additional 1d6 Necrotic damage when dealing damage to Celestial or Fey creatures.

Anyone tried doing this? If so what went well and what didn't? If not, would you attempt to? It seems like a way of making someone who uses TWF have a somewhat unique experience doing so.

[JellyPooga]

I suppose there's two approaches;

1) Items found as a pair. In this case I'd almost be temtped to allow them to be attuned as a pair for a single slot (or individually for a slot each). This is because they are designed as a pair and function together as a pair; if they're found as a pair, then it only seems fitting and a nice reward for a TWFer, seeing as they normally have to find and attune two separate weapons to take best advantage of their build.

2) Items found separately. In this case, I'd possibly consider the "two for one" attunement, but if one's going to be used solo for a significant period, then it might not be worth bothering with the whole "pair bonus" thing at all; just give them complementary abilities that make them work well together rather than a straight boost when used together. Something along the lines of one dealing additional fire damage or granting the use of, say, the Firebolt cantrip and the other granting a bonus to fire damage dealt by the wielder. Used together they have an obvious synergy, but alone they still have a use.

[ciarannihill]

I suppose there's two approaches;

1) Items found as a pair. In this case I'd almost be temtped to allow them to be attuned as a pair for a single slot (or individually for a slot each). This is because they are designed as a pair and function together as a pair; if they're found as a pair, then it only seems fitting and a nice reward for a TWFer, seeing as they normally have to find and attune two separate weapons to take best advantage of their build.

2) Items found separately. In this case, I'd possibly consider the "two for one" attunement, but if one's going to be used solo for a significant period, then it might not be worth bothering with the whole "pair bonus" thing at all; just give them complementary abilities that make them work well together rather than a straight boost when used together. Something along the lines of one dealing additional fire damage or granting the use of, say, the Firebolt cantrip and the other granting a bonus to fire damage dealt by the wielder. Used together they have an obvious synergy, but alone they still have a use.

Thanks for the thoughts! I like the idea of the two for one attunement, one of those things where you kick yourself for missing something fairly obvious in hindsight, heh.

Another thought is items that have benefits if another party member is wielding the counterpart -- Like imagine having a sword and board character whose weapon leaves a magical effect on an enemy that can be activated (ala booming blade) by an arrow fired from a related bow just to spitball a bit.
Might be another way to do "paired" items (could even do more than a pair if you really want to) even without a TWF PC.

[Rhunder]

I had something like this in 3.5 but the party never committed to finding all the pieces of armor. Haven't tried it in 5e but I'll give it a go and see how my group does it this time.

[NaughtyTiger]

There is a DDAL module that awards 2 magic items (daggers named "Left Fang of ..." and "Right Fang of ..."

awarded to single players, but still counts as 2 magic items/2 attunement slots.

fantastic story wise.

(until AL gutted the treasure rules)

[Millstone85]

The 4e book Adventurer's Vault 2 had item sets, with tables like:

Tools of Zane's Vengeance Benefits


Pieces
Benefit


2
You gain an item bonus to Intimidate checks equal to the number of items you have from this set.


4
While you're bloodied, you gain blindsight 5.

[ciarannihill]

I had something like this in 3.5 but the party never committed to finding all the pieces of armor. Haven't tried it in 5e but I'll give it a go and see how my group does it this time.

Armor seems tougher to me, and feels like you might fall into MMO-feeling territory (which isn't always necessarily a bad thing). I was more inspired by Dark Souls paired weapons (or implied paired weapons)...speaking of which:


Gold Tracer-
+2 Magic Scimitar, when you hit a creature with this weapon the next attack you make this turn with another weapon has advantage, when you use the attack action with this weapon it glows with golden light, illuminating a 5ft radius sphere centered on the weapon in dim light for the turn.

Dark Silver Tracer-
+1 Magic Dagger, you can deal an extra 2d6 poison damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. If you score a critical hit with an attack made using this weapon deal an additional 2d6 poison damage and the creature hit must succeed on a DC16 Constitution saving throw or become poisoned for 1 minute.

[Man_Over_Game]

I wouldn't limit it to almost requiring that the items be used together by the same person, but just imply that they *should* be used by the same person.

Perhaps something like:



Dawnbringer: When you attack a creature in Dim Light or Darkness, you have advantage to hit them with this weapon. If you hit an enemy or an object, the target will emit an aura of radiance, turning Darkness or Dim Light within 5 feet into Bright Light but not shedding Dim Light. While a target is impacted by this, they do not benefit from Invisibility. Attuned by meditating the full hour between the half hour before-and-after dawn.

Duskbringer: When you attack a creature in Bright Light, you have advantage to hit them with this weapon. If you hit an enemy or an object, the target will emit an aura of shadows for one minute, turning all Bright Light within 10 feet into Dim Light. Creatures have disadvantage on Perception checks to see you while you're in Dim Light or Darkness while you are attuned to this weapon. Attuned by meditating the full hour between the half hour before-and-after dusk.

Two players could definitely benefit from these weapons, or a single one can. Either way, it'd be cool, but now you have possibilities. It's no longer limited to "Oh, I found a Dual Wielding set, and we just so happen to have a Dual Wielder! How cool is that?"

As a rule, though, I would avoid adding abilities that rely on critical hits. Either they're overvalued, built around, or they end fights prematurely. None of these things are generally good design.

[Millstone85]

Regarding TWF specifically, I would rather go for a weapon that likes to have a friend, any friend.

Shortsword of Three-Weapon Fighting
When you wield both this weapon and another melee weapon, any successful attack you make with this weapon, as part of the bonus action granted by two-weapon fighting, lets you make a free additional attack with the other weapon.

[ciarannihill]

I wouldn't limit it to almost requiring that the items be used together by the same person, but just imply that they *should* be used by the same person.

As a rule, though, I would avoid adding abilities that rely on critical hits. Either they're overvalued, built around, or they end fights prematurely. None of these things are generally good design.

I do like the idea of those two items and how they might work in tandem being held by allies or in the hands of a TWF PC.

As for the critical hit one, it's mostly because that weapon within it's source material has a benefit to critical hits (higher critical damage than most daggers) and has a high degree of poisoning, just meant to be a loose translation of that weapon, not an actual item to implement necessarily.
Even if I wanted similar weapons I wouldn't translate them in this way exactly in an actual game, though there are plenty of magic items even in the core game that give extra benefits on critical hits fwiw.

[Man_Over_Game]

I do like the idea of those two items and how they might work in tandem being held by allies or in the hands of a TWF PC.

As for the critical hit one, it's mostly because that weapon within it's source material has a benefit to critical hits (higher critical damage than most daggers) and has a high degree of poisoning, just meant to be a loose translation of that weapon, not an actual item to implement necessarily.
Even if I wanted similar weapons I wouldn't translate them in this way exactly in an actual game, though there are plenty of magic items even in the core game that give extra benefits on critical hits fwiw.

You're right about there being official items. I guess I just don't like them. Random chance has always rubbed me wrong, and critical weapons don't usually require teamwork or planning, just hoping. But I'm sure it works for a lot of people, otherwise you'd wouldn't see so many builds for it.

[TWrecks]

Seems like a good idea if you put the right plot hooks in.

[ciarannihill]

You're right about there being official items. I guess I just don't like them. Random chance has always rubbed me wrong, and critical weapons don't usually require teamwork or planning, just hoping. Adventurers don't seem like the kind to "hope" they survive. But that's just me.

I always viewed critical hits as having found a vulnerability in the enemy and exploiting that expertly, not really a luck thing except in that the enemy exposed the weakness, but exploiting it when it's exposed is a skill thing diegetically in my view. Not that it's a huge deal, lol.

Curious what other things could have alternating mechanics that enhance each-other like the previous example you gave. Conditions, maybe? (Thinking about it, thematically you could have the Gold Tracer blind creatures hit by it as a method of giving advantage rather than just doing so)

[Man_Over_Game]

I always viewed critical hits as having found a vulnerability in the enemy and exploiting that expertly, not really a luck thing except in that the enemy exposed the weakness, but exploiting it when it's exposed is a skill thing diegetically in my view. Not that it's a huge deal, lol.

Curious what other things could have alternating mechanics that enhance each-other like the previous example you gave. Conditions, maybe? (Thinking about it, thematically you could have the Gold Tracer blind creatures hit by it as a method of giving advantage rather than just doing so)

Have a weapon that bends sound using illusions, causing minor thunder damage and deafness.

The second weapon is a weapon that uses illusions to bend light, causing you to appear invisible to those who have less than 15 passive perception based off of hearing, auto success against the deaf.



One that inflicts fear, and the other that lets you shift yourself and the target 5 feet each. Why? So you can interject yourself between the enemy and an ally, and frightened enemies can't move closer to you (and so can't get closer to your friend).

A whip that knocks/grabs to prone, and the other that's bladed that gives -5 to hit but +10 to damage (same as GWM feat), designed strictly to behead.

[Tanngrisnr]

Anyone tried doing this? If so what went well and what didn't? If not, would you attempt to? It seems like a way of making someone who uses TWF have a somewhat unique experience doing so.

Yes!

In the current game I DM the sword bard player just found these:

- Rhythm: damage from the weapon is considered magical for the purpose of ignoring slashing damage resistance; wielder has advantage on Acrobatics and Performance checks. The hilt of this weapon has small holes on it, similar to those of a flute, though there's no place for the wielder to blow on and thus the weapon does not produce any type of extraordinaire sound. Requires attunement.

- Poetry: damage from the weapon is considered magical for the purpose of ignoring slashing damage resistance; if the wielder scores a critical hit with this weapon, they can choose to make it deal Thunder damage instead of the regular slashing damage. The blade of this weapon has four small holes in it, causing it to make a low whistle when the weapon is agitated in the air. Requires attunement.

- When both of these weapons are attuned by the same creature, they grant additional benefits: attuning to both weapons counts as only one magical item attunement; the wielder can make music out of this weapons through an elaborate form of sword dancing (Performance check, DC 10). It usually sounds like "final fantasy fanfare" or "sure shot", from the Beastie Boys.

[Man_Over_Game]

You literally made swords who's set bonus lets you make a victory dance after combat?

[Vogie]

http://www.megazord.net/USERIMAGES/125_2576.jpg

Obviously 5 magic weapons should be able to be combined into a single power blaster.

[Tanngrisnr]

You literally made swords who's set bonus lets you make a victory dance after combat?

:smallbiggrin:

They also replace spell's somatic and material components (as long as the price is below 100gp) when used together. I forgot say that.

[LordEntrails]

I like the idea. Seen it before. Was it Drizzt that had a pair set of scimitars?

[WilliamHuggins]

Gave one of my players a pair of sentient weapons, a rapier inhabited by a soul called Anima and a dagger by a soul called Sanguine, single attunement for both weapons and they are mundane without one other, the rapier was the more sane one, its main aim was to consume souls, while the dagger was mad, all it cared about was drinking blood.

At one point during the campaign, the bard of the group died while fighting a rock troll, and the weapons offered the ranger ( the owner ) to resurrect the bard, ranger failed his insight check and agreed to the resurrection, weapons shattered the bards soul and bound a single fragment of it to the ranger while consuming the rest, but they kept their promise and resurrected the bard, after a while bard became depressed ( as this was his second time dying, he is a reckless player, he got properly resurrected by a cleric last time with a ritual and all ) and begged the ranger to kill him but ranger refused, in the end he killed himself and the ranger found out that most of the memories related to the bard were gone for everyone, maybe at most ten percent of memories related to him, it was like he was erased from every family photo.

At last they were burning the bards body and the ranger was miserable, he was shedding tears, and the weapons tried to mock the dead, in their pride they admitted to consuming his soul and the ranger in his anger tried to throw them into the sea, but then the third dormant soul inside the weapons overpowered the other two because of the rangers good actions and a single soul named Alharis started inhabiting both weapons, other two souls were silenced.

Later on during the campaign, another character of the group died, and this time in his desperation, ranger begged the soul to resurrect the dead as the other two souls did before, but Alharis said she had no such power, in his rage ranger wanted to bury the weapons and dug a hole, while Alharis protested fearing a wicked soul would find the blades and cause her to become dormant again, ranger gave no heed and as his rage grew, instead of burying the weapons he spilled the extremely powerful magical acid they found earlier on the weapons thus destroying the them.

[stoutstien]

Had a barb find a pair of magic hand axes named ebbs and flow that had the returning property when throw and could be turned into +1 weapons as a reaction at a cost of a hit die once per short/long rest.
I only counted them as a single attunement slot.

[ciarannihill]

Had a barb find a pair of magic hand axes named ebbs and flow that had the returning property when throw and could be turned into +1 weapons as a reaction at a cost of a hit die once per short/long rest.
I only counted them as a single attunement slot.

That's pretty cool, using the Dwarven Thrower ability on them is pretty dope.

Here's one inspired by the second suggestion @JellyPooga made:


Crash and Rumble -- War Hammer and Shield Pair

Crash
+1 Magic War Hammer. Deals an additional 2d8 Thunder damage to prone creatures, causing a cacophonous booming sound that can be heard for 200 ft upon hitting.

Rumble
Shield. Has 3 charges, one recovers each dawn. Recovers all 3 over the course of a short/long rest during a thunderstorm. Can expend a charge to shove a large or smaller creature mightily as a bonus action. The creature must succeed on a DC 13 Constitution saving throw or be knocked prone.

Unsure as to how well balanced they are as a pair compared to individually, but I like the idea of one of those multi-stage thunder rumbles where it starts like a low hum before having a huge bang at the end. The initial rumbling makes you lose your footing before the real Crash comes down on you, so to speak. But they're both pretty great as individual weapons as well, and possibly when used by different party members -- a Fighter or Paladin knocking someone prone before the Barbarian delivers a coup de grace seems cool.