How to reduce Ambrosia or Liquid Pain's casting time?

[sorcererlover]

This was brought up in my other thread and it got me curious.
Whether SLA reduces the casting time to a standard action or not seems dubious and there is no doubt in my mind when something is dubious the DM is always gonna go for the more restrictive reading.
Rapid Spell cannot be applied because the casting time is 1 day instead of 24 hours.

Uncanny Forethought I guess works but it doesn't work with RAI.

I'm not looking for farms. I'm looking for actual ways to reduce its casting time.
The spells are Transmutation and Necromancy. There's got to be some Transmutation or Necromancy casting time support!

[RoboEmperor]

Rod of Many Wands. Reduces its casting time to 1 full round action but I believe it's also not RAI.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

StP erudite with Linked Power can manifest either of those spells-turned-powers Linked to another power that is manifested this round. The Linked spell goes off at the beginning of next round regardless of other factors (at least, if the target is still in range, anyway, else it fizzles).

[Thurbane]

Somehow convert it to an SLA?

[sorcererlover]

Somehow convert it to an SLA?

Isn't the casting time in the spell description part of "unless otherwise noted" so making it an SLA actually does nothing?
And what methods are there other than Innate spell which requires epic feats or the Archmage SLA? Or becoming an undead and having it spellstitched onto you?

[flappeercraft]

Depends on how TO you get. For example Miracle gets you to do it as a standard action, of course getting a reliable source of miracles si hard for a normal game.

Wish also works so Planar Binding Efreets to use their wish to replicate either spell would work too.

Shapechange to get Zodar Wishes 1/round would also work.


Basically it goes down to are you going to get wish/miracle shenanigans allowed on this campaign for this or not?

[sorcererlover]

Miracles are allowed but wish is not. If you use wish there is no point in it replicating ambrosia.

[Anthrowhale]

If you stick it on a scroll (which requires 187.5 gp and 15xp and a half-day's work), then you can use spell-completion to invoke it in a standard action. Of course, if your goal is harvesting xp, this is counterproductive.

Energy Transformation Field might work.

Supernatural Spell (from Dweomerkeeper) used with Limited Wish should work.

[sorcererlover]

Energy Transformation Field works. It's the best answer I got so far. Thanks!

[RoboEmperor]

If you stick it on a scroll (which requires 187.5 gp and 15xp and a half-day's work), then you can use spell-completion to invoke it in a standard action. Of course, if your goal is harvesting xp, this is counterproductive.

A minor schema of it makes it non counter productive. You need 14400 minor schemas to continually cast non stop though.

[unseenmage]

Glyph Seal from Magic Item Compendium and cast the spell into the item in advance.

Takes a lot of Glyph Seals to get anything useful done though.

Way back when I put Distilled Joy and Elation into a Spell Turret from DMG2, I think.

[sorcererlover]

So is this list definitive?

I was hoping for something like Rapid Spell instead of something that requires money and xp like Energy Transformation Field or Schemas.

I guess a 17th level cleric is the only way.

[Crake]

So is this list definitive?

I was hoping for something like Rapid Spell instead of something that requires money and xp like Energy Transformation Field or Schemas.

I guess a 17th level cleric is the only way.

Well, rapid spell would reduce it's casting time by a factor of 24, dropping it to 1 hour casting time, if you take the logic that a 1 day cast time is the same as 24 hours cast time. I would follow this logic through down the line, because I think it's silly that something with a 10 minute cast time gets reduced to 1 minute, but something with a 1 minute cast time wouldn't be reduced, simply becasue it's cast time is measured in "minutes".

[Darrin]

Glyph Seal from Magic Item Compendium and cast the spell into the item in advance.


Shalantha's delicate disk (Lost Empires of Faerun) or focal stone (Wyrms of the North: Valamaradace (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20040225a)) can be used to create spell-storing items that can be activated as a standard action. Shalantha's delicate disk probably works best, as it only costs 200 GP per casting, where focal stone costs XP. You'd still have to spend the day to cast the spell into the disk, but once you pile up enough of them, you could trigger them all at once with a shatter spell.

Channel Spell shenanigans (via Spellsword or Ordained Champion) would also work.

[RoboEmperor]

Shalantha's delicate disk (Lost Empires of Faerun) or focal stone (Wyrms of the North: Valamaradace (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20040225a)) can be used to create spell-storing items that can be activated as a standard action. Shalantha's delicate disk probably works best, as it only costs 200 GP per casting, where focal stone costs XP. You'd still have to spend the day to cast the spell into the disk, but once you pile up enough of them, you could trigger them all at once with a shatter spell.

Channel Spell shenanigans (via Spellsword or Ordained Champion) would also work.

Ordained Champion doesn't work because it is limited to standard action spells.

[WhamBamSam]

I'm pretty strongly of the opinion that SLAs do not automatically become standard actions, but unlike Quicken Spell, Quicken SLA has no stipulation about the casting time of the base spell, so if you can get the CL high enough (16 for a 4th level spell like Liquid Pain, 14th for the 3rd level Distilled Joy), you can get it down to a swift action for a feat.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A fast-time demiplane with a repeating spell trap or spell clock that contains the desired spells (as well as a spell that provides pain and/or pleasure), followed by plane shift once those spells are cast. Give the subject an acorn of far travel from a tree on a plane with normal or slow time, or subject them to the planar bubble spell (which can also be the first spell cast by the trap or clock). Then you forcibly plane shift the subject to the plane, it gets hit by the trap or clock, the spells are cast in no subjective time at all on your end, and they are plane shifted back, automatically and immediately. If their subjective timeframe is slow enough, they'll get a flash of their surroundings, an instant of intense pain (or pleasure), and then they're back where they started.

[RoboEmperor]

I'm pretty strongly of the opinion that SLAs do not automatically become standard actions, but unlike Quicken Spell, Quicken SLA has no stipulation about the casting time of the base spell, so if you can get the CL high enough (16 for a 4th level spell like Liquid Pain, 14th for the 3rd level Distilled Joy), you can get it down to a swift action for a feat.

I think the OP needs to go this method.

Necropolitan->Spellstitched Undead and grab Quicken SLA and apply it to Liquid Pain. Need 17 Wisdom to cast Liquid Pain 4 times a day.

[Darrin]

Ordained Champion doesn't work because it is limited to standard action spells.

I was going to say, are you thinking of Duskblade? But no, you are correct... I forgot to check the errata, which added the standard action restriction.

[sorcererlover]

I also want to stay within RAI so spellsword is out since my DM will probaby treat the errata for Ordained Champion as an errata for the spellsword too since the abilities both share the same name


I'm pretty strongly of the opinion that SLAs do not automatically become standard actions, but unlike Quicken Spell, Quicken SLA has no stipulation about the casting time of the base spell, so if you can get the CL high enough (16 for a 4th level spell like Liquid Pain, 14th for the 3rd level Distilled Joy), you can get it down to a swift action for a feat.

I thought this would work but it's just as bad as miracle.
Miracle: 17th level
Quicken SLA on a spellstitched undead's liquid pain: 16th level. Can't use Ambrosia because it's not a necromancy, evocation, or conjuration spell.
Archmage: 15th level minimum.

I guess there's a reason it's this difficult to shorten casting time.

It seems amassing Etch Schema is the best way as that ETF thing is usually banned in every game despite being in SpC.

@Maxi
Your methods are way too abnormal to see actual play at least with my DM.