Twinned Enlarge/Reduce for a Grappler?

[Damon_Tor]

So for a character that likes to grapple for whatever reason, size is going to be an issue, and enlarge can only do so much.

Since Enlage/Reduce is a single spell, if you twin Enlarge/Reduce, can you make each target suffer a different effect? So could I cast it, twinned, on myself and a gargantuan enemy, enlarging myself to Large and reducing him to Huge, thus allowing me to grapple him?

[Crgaston]

It works. They get to make a con save, though.

[devan.m.goad]

Sounds super dope, what kind of build would that tactic thrive in? Sounds like you need at least 3 levels of sorcerer and then is it just a grappler build? I'd be very interested if someones got a good build idea to abuse this.

[Man_Over_Game]

Sounds super dope, what kind of build would that tactic thrive in? Sounds like you need at least 3 levels of sorcerer and then is it just a grappler build? I'd be very interested if someones got a good build idea to abuse this.

There's some mention of a Bard/Fighter grappler build that works around this, but the issue is that dipping into Sorcerer is a bit too spendy. I'd still go in that direction (Lore bard, Champion Fighter), but just ditch the Twinned Spell altogether.

[MaxWilson]

There's some mention of a Bard/Fighter grappler build that works around this, but the issue is that dipping into Sorcerer is a bit too spendy. I'd still go in that direction (Lore bard, Champion Fighter), but just ditch the Twinned Spell altogether.

I'd just play a Druid (ideally Moon) and aim to transform into a Giant Toad, Giant Constrictor Snake or Giant Crocodile. Grapple + restraint in a single action. Goes well with Sentinel for extra attacks, works on any size enemy, comes with free HP.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'd just play a Druid (ideally Moon) and aim to transform into a Giant Toad, Giant Constrictor Snake or Giant Crocodile. Grapple + restraint in a single action. Goes well with Sentinel for extra attacks, works on any size enemy, comes with free HP.

Throw in a level of Barbarian so that you get easy advantage, and BOOM, *optimized*.

[MaxWilson]

Throw in a level of Barbarian so that you get easy advantage, and BOOM, *optimized*.

I'd personally avoid that for two reasons:

(1) I like the Moon Druid capstone, and permanently losing even the possibility of the capstone would spoil my fun (even if it's unlikely that I'll ever get there, I still don't like knowing that I'm at an a irrevocable dead end)

(2) Reckless attack requires two levels of Barbarian, but doesn't work except on your own turn, so it would not benefit my Sentinel attacks.

If I want advantage though I can always summon a bunch of animals. Ideally I'd get constrictor snakes so they can do their own grappling/restraint, but even if I wind up with a bunch of wolves or horses or something I can at least command some of them (either before I turn into animal form, or after if I'm a Ghostwise halfling with telepathy) to Help me on my own attacks. Or I can have the wizard's Owl familiar do it or something.

[Crgaston]

Sounds super dope, what kind of build would that tactic thrive in? Sounds like you need at least 3 levels of sorcerer and then is it just a grappler build? I'd be very interested if someones got a good build idea to abuse this.

I have a backup character that I built kind of around this concept.
Thaddeus "Boomer" Rosenbloom
Half-Elf
City Watch background for the "emerging superhero" vibe
Swashbuckler Rogue 5 /Draconic Sorcerer 3. AC17 HP 59
12/18/14/8/10/16
Sorcerer Cantrips: Booming Blade, Message, Shocking Grasp and Thunderclap
Sorcerer Spells: Feather Fall, Jump, Shield, Enlarge/Reduce
Metamagics: Twin and Distant

He's got the Blue dragon lineage so I tried to focus on thunder and lightning damage and mobility. Took expertise in Athletics and Stealth so even with a Str 12 he has a +7 Athletics. Swashbuckler adds Cha to initiative so that's a +7 as well. Distant Spell works well for this build because it is cheap and synergizes with the cantrips. He can BB+SA with a whip when needed, Shocking Grasp from 30' to help an ally Disegage, Message up to 240' if needed, and make his Thunderclap affect a 10' r.

I can totally imagine him Feather Falling off a Flying Carpet into a crowd of mooks and Distant Thunderclapping the lot. It'll be even cooler when he can Fly in, grab someone and Thunder Step out in another 2 levels.

Twin is there just for the buffs. Twin Jump on himself and the party Berserker, then Twin Enlarge for some over-the-top Luchador action. Grapple an enemy off a cliff and then Feather Fall down. And then of course the aforementioned Twin Enlarge/Reduce trick. Twin Fly is the ultimate goal. Although Twin Greater Invisibility would be super dope as well.

Upcoming spell possibilities include Spider Climb, Thunder Step, Fly and Lightning Bolt for the mobility and flavor.

Personality wise, I'll give him kind of a "Sterling Archer+Power Ranger" vibe. He was already a 5th level Swashbuckler before his sorcerous blood manifested and so his general reaction is "Holy Cow, did you see that?!?!" ...maybe with an over-inflated view of his own capabilities. I don't expect him to last too long once I bring him to the table :).

[Damon_Tor]

Sounds super dope, what kind of build would that tactic thrive in? Sounds like you need at least 3 levels of sorcerer and then is it just a grappler build? I'd be very interested if someones got a good build idea to abuse this.

A good, if outdated, guide to grappling can be found here (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?468737-The-Grappler-s-Manual-(2-0)-Grappling-in-5th-Edition). While the author gushes over the utility of Enlarge/Reduce, and has a section talking about metamagic, he doesn't discuss twinning the spell to grow yourself and shrink the other guy: presumably he didn't think of it.

He also doesn't include any newer UA material. The Loxodon and Simic Hybrids both make great grapplers (Three grappling appendages and carry/drag as large for the Loxodon and Four grappling appendages and minor action grapple for the Simic). And he doesn't discuss the Mystic, who not only have the Giant Growth discipline, giving them Huge size at level 9, but can give themselves free permanent advantage on Athletics checks via the Brute Force focus and they have a ton of mobility options as well. They can use Mighty Leap to jump 140 feet straight into the air and as long as they're strong enough to carry the other guy, they can take the other guy with them... and then spike them right to the ground.