OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Sapphire Guard]

Ah, that's interesting. Set up so long ago too.

[kiapet]

I literally exclaimed, "OOOOH" out loud when I saw the image of the Dark One. I feel like this arc has been reframing everything we knew about this conflict at least once a page for a while. Is this going to end with a team-up with Redcloack??? Because I would be totally down for that.

[Keltest]

A pantheon of one...

Huh. So does that mean the elven and/or western gods inadvertently blew their chance with they combined the pantheons for the elves? Or are the elven gods actually a 5th color set that we just haven't seen yet?

[Gluteus_Maximus]

2nd- also, confirmed, the dark one is new as of this world. So they're going to have to get Redcloak to agree that the snail is dangerous and needs to be contained, probably when the world is about to get swallowed up, and then rbyp can save the day againt rgby.

[littlebum2002]

Well props to everyone who said the Dark One was the "new thing" that made this world different

[Ortho]

...escaping the event horizon of my divine singularity...

So the gods are sentient black holes? I don't think anyone saw this coming

[Luna_Mayflower]

*Gasp* The Dark One is the key to saving everything! Even I didn't dream of that twist!

[Lord Torath]

Wow! That last panel gave me chills!

Thanks, Rich!

[Coyote0715]

So the Dark One is actually unique to this world only. Interesting....

[Gluteus_Maximus]

Or are the elven gods actually a 5th color set that we just haven't seen yet?

Considering the elven gods vote with the western pantheon, their color is probably red.

[SavageWombat]

But this means that Redcloak is right. Destroy the world and have the gods work with the Dark One to make a fair world with humans (etc.) and goblins.

[Gift Jeraff]

2nd- also, confirmed, the dark one is new as of this world. So they're going to have to get Redcloak to agree that the snail is dangerous and needs to be contained, probably when the world is about to get swallowed up, and then rbyp can save the day againt rgby.

not snail, not-snail.

[Peelee]

I wonder how him being a different color is going to affect thigs. I'm bettimg a lot; it's something the Snarl has never before encountered.

[Knick]

Ahhhh! But if I recall correctly, the Dark One wants a better deal for Goblinkind NOW, or the snarl gets released.

I really feel that the character development and of Redcloak and all the Goblins have led to this point.

[Borris]

Is it just me or Minrah is in a very weird position in pannel 6?

[Syncrogti]

Who the heck is that?

Edited: nevermind, I got it.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

"So, if you could go talk to this guy's high priest for me, then we will be set to reap your souls, destroy the world and start over."

Problem?

[Lord Torath]

All worlds but one were made of three colors. I wonder if the world in the rift is the first world...


Who the heck is that?Who the heck is whom? Can you clarify which person you're asking about?

[Quebbster]

And this is why the Dark One didn't get to vote at the Godsmoot. Had a feeling the Purple aura was important.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

But this means that Redcloak is right. Destroy the world and have the gods work with the Dark One to make a fair world with humans (etc.) and goblins.

No, he's still wrong. Because the dark one doesn't know the process of making new worlds, not even that there are more world's than this one and the first, he thinks that they need to blackmail the gods into making the goblins better. On the contrary, the gods would be thankful for the existence of the purply pantheon and willingly give goblins a better footing.

Also the fact that only Thor has noticed what the dark one means to the world is strange. When the dark one was introduced in SOD, the evil Gods are like "hey, he cool" instead of being like OMG guys the purple magical energy

[Ourgh]

So... Purple is the new Green ?

[Marcotix]

Nice! D1 for the win! I'm sure nothing will go wrong. :smallbiggrin:

[One Step Two]

Fun thought: If the Dark One is the sole beneficiary of all Goblinoid souls, would it not be unreasonable to say that his power would match even Hel if she got her way, and the world gets destroyed?

[super dark33]

The Dark One saves the day!

[Gluteus_Maximus]

All worlds but one were made of three colors. I wonder if the world in the rift is the first world...

Would make sense since all other worlds were devoured and the snarl, being a 4 colored creature, can't damage a 4 colored thing like the first world.

That or the snarl, after millions of years of boredom, created his own 4 colored world.

[Anonymouswizard]

A pantheon of one...

Huh. So does that mean the elven and/or western gods inadvertently blew their chance with they combined the pantheons for the elves? Or are the elven gods actually a 5th color set that we just haven't seen yet?

I suspect that the elven gods had the same divine wavelength as the other western gods, and our friendly godly dwarf king always on the wavelength of the Northern Pantheon, while the Dark One is on a different wavelength, possibly because he wasn't raised with the philosophies of the three pantheons or some other reason.


But this means that Redcloak is right. Destroy the world and have the gods work with the Dark One to make a fair world with humans (etc.) and goblins.

Assuming the other gods would allow TDO into their sanctuary and the creation of the new world instead of leaving him to be killed by the Snarl. I suspect there's also a bit of world creation that we haven't been told that allows TDO to 'patch up' the world in a way that means they can stick with the current one.

[Ichneumon]

This is one of those moments when an author shows he is a true master of storytelling.

[Eldritch Queen]

I sense a team up in the future, though I'm sure that Redcloak wouldn't want to put a label on it...

Speaking if which, hopefully, Redcloak is down for it. Talk about not wanting to rock the boat, we all know how much he hates deviating from "The Plan." (And how far he's willing to go to keep things on track.)

[Ninaboo]

What about the God Banjo the Clown? So will Banjo bring balance to the Dark One?

[Gluteus_Maximus]

What about the God Banjo the Clown? So will Banjo bring balance to the Dark One?

Banjo wanted to join the northern pantheon, right, then changed his mind. I think banjo was just foreshadowing for that there was a new God in town.

[RatElemental]

Huh. I guess all those crack theories weren't quite so off the wall after all.

But this means... That the dark one's plan B of destroying the world and making a new one involving him is a valid snarl-threat-ending plan after all, isn't it?

[Kish]

Fun thought: If the Dark One is the sole beneficiary of all Goblinoid souls, would it not be unreasonable to say that his power would match even Hel if she got her way, and the world gets destroyed?
Sure. She's only expecting to be the Queen of the Northern Pantheon. What happens with other pantheons doesn't seem to be on her mind.

[Lord Torath]

What about the God Banjo the Clown? So will Banjo bring balance to the Dark One?Nah. He's only got one worshiper, and he wanted to join the Northern Pantheon. Giggles could possibly play a role. No idea what his color is, but it might be violet, since it's orcs worshiping him.

[TheYell]

Dun Dun Dun!!!

[Hamsandlich]

Purple...

OH MY GOOOD!

[Peelee]

Fun thought: If the Dark One is the sole beneficiary of all Goblinoid souls, would it not be unreasonable to say that his power would match even Hel if she got her way, and the world gets destroyed?

Yes, I daresay he would be the most powerful God in his Pantheon. I don't know why you would wait until a world-ending soul harvest to make the distinction,
but hey, I'm not judging.

[Shennynerd]

I suspect that the elven gods had the same divine wavelength as the other western gods, and our friendly godly dwarf king always on the wavelength of the Northern Pantheon, while the Dark One is on a different wavelength, possibly because he wasn't raised with the philosophies of the three pantheons or some other reason.

It's safe to assume the reason his quiddity is different is due to the fact that he was once mortal himself.

[wRAR]

OOOOHH!

Also, does this mean all the gods were always drawn with respectively colored auras? I totally missed that.

[Peelee]

It's safe to assume the reason his quiddity is different is due to the fact that he was once mortal himself.

So were the Elven gods and Dvalin, and yet.

[Resileaf]

Interesting. I wonder what prevented other gods from appearing in previous worlds. Time? Or was it the specific circumstances of this particular world? Perhaps the fact that creatures were created specifically to be XP fodder but were fully aware of it made it possible?

[kiapet]

Also the fact that only Thor has noticed what the dark one means to the world is strange. When the dark one was introduced in SOD, the evil Gods are like "hey, he cool" instead of being like OMG guys the purple magical energy

I get the idea that the gods have pretty much always discounted the Dark One because of his (mortal, goblinoid) origins. Which clearly was a huge mistake, given what we learn here.

[bc56]

It looks like goblins might be immune to snarling.
That's interesting... And would certainly provide them with the validation and acceptance they want

Also, why is the snarl drawn as purple if it's actually red, yellow, blue, and green

And darnit, now I want to create a world which uses this color theory

[RMS Oceanic]

Oh that is an immensely satisfying recontextualization of the stakes at hand. Now the quest becomes how to get Redcloak to read up on the sunk cost fallacy.

[BarGamer]

So I see the upcoming setup: The original Gods and Dark One team up to create another four-color creation that can take on the Snarl on an even footing.

However, if new colors can be created, what's to stop the Snarl from creating its own new color, and creating a FIVE-color creation?

Oh, because Wizards of the Coast would sue. Nevermind. ;)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I suspect that the elven gods had the same divine wavelength as the other western gods, and our friendly godly dwarf king always on the wavelength of the Northern Pantheon, while the Dark One is on a different wavelength, possibly because he wasn't raised with the philosophies of the three pantheons or some other reason.

Agreed. I suspect the elves were particularly favoured by the Western gods in this particular iteration, and therefore when some of them ascended, they viewed the western pantheon favourably and "naturally" joined it - meaning that it their nature was red from the moment of ascension.

The Dark One hated all the existing gods, because he (correctly or incorrectly) believed them all to have created goblins as canon fodder. His nature was not like that of any of the existing gods, and therefore remained separate.

In short: elves and dwarven kings were aligned with gods and when ascended remained aligned. The purple goblin who became the Dark One was never aligned with any existing gods and his very nature made him different because of it.

Grey Wolf

[Torberg]

Is it just me or Minrah is in a very weird position in panel 6?

She's in the process of sitting down. She was walking over in Panel 1, standing next to Durkon in Panel 3, and sitting next to him in Panel 8. Panel 6 is the transition.

[Delta]

And there's the twist! I like it, maybe the most epic plot twist of all time based on the limited color selection in a box of crayons?

[Diashi]

So... if the Dark one isn't one of the colors which created the snarl... does that mean... he's IMMUNE to the snarl?

BTW: is this the first time that TDO has appeared as anything other than Crayon?

[RatElemental]

I'd bet all my quatloos and gold pieces that the reason the dark one's energy is different is because he hates the other gods and blames them for the plight of his people. His entire divine existence has been one long attempt to undermine and threaten the other gods. He's not "not in tune" with them so much as doing his damndest to destructively interfere with them.

Burying that hatchet may well be the most difficult thing to do.

[Goosefarble]

Is it just me or Minrah is in a very weird position in pannel 6?

She's sitting down.

This whole little mini-arc is amazing. I love learning more about the planar lore surrounding the Snarl. This is why everyone who said this plotline "isn't advancing the main plot" can go suck a lemon.

[Murk]

The way it sounds right now is that breaking the world and starting over isn't that bad of an idea - the new world could be made in cooperation with the Dark One and finally break this cycle.

I know that's not really a solution to the heroes, but it's yet another reason why the gods who voted to destroy the world might have some good points.

[Hamsandlich]

All these new theories about The Dark One are ignoring a troubling possibility:

Is The Dark One actually The Dark One? Does he want what Redcloak thinks he wants? The Snarl may be made out of four colors, but it seems pretty...violet

[Zyzzyva]

Holy crow.

That's a twist I was not expecting.

(Also, since I went to look it up: Njord is the one who votes yes on the grounds he has an idea for a new coastline. ;) )

[Keltest]

Agreed. I suspect the elves were particularly favoured by the Western gods in this particular iteration, and therefore when some of them ascended, they viewed the western pantheon favourably and "naturally" joined it - meaning that it their nature was red from the moment of ascension.

The Dark One hated all the existing gods, because he (correctly or incorrectly) believed them all to have created goblins as canon fodder. His nature was not like that of any of the existing gods, and therefore remained separate.

In short: elves and dwarven kings were aligned with gods and when ascended remained aligned. The purple goblin who became the Dark One was never aligned with any existing gods and his very nature made him different because of it.

Grey Wolf

As I recall, TDO only discovered that goblinoids were given a raw deal on purpose after his ascension.

[Diashi]

As I recall, TDO only discovered that goblinoids were given a raw deal on purpose after his ascension.Yes, this is correct.

[Trillium]

In Elan's unconscious brain one still-awake neuron sung "Dun DUN DUUUNNNN!!!" at this moment.

On a more serious note, I'm getting Discworld vibes from the whole "mortals are more real than gods" thing. Which is obviously good.

[Anonymouswizard]

So... if the Dark one isn't one of the colors which created the snarl... does that mean... he's IMMUNE to the snarl?

Not as explained in the comic, he's still one colour while the Snarl is four, which is apparently what makes it more 'real' than the gods.

[The Aboleth]

I am amazed at the amount of people who are saying that destroying the world is still the best option despite the fact that Thor said literally one strip ago that it was not the best option. However the problem will be solved, I can almost guarantee the solution will not be "This world still gets destroyed in the end."

[Goblin Guard]

Can I just say how cool the Dark One looks in this updated art style?
Great page overall, I wonder what Thor's plan is.

[FlawedParadigm]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?565145-Cooperation&p=23258313#post23258313

I remember awhile ago I got shot down hard for suggesting a possible Order/Redcloak cooperative venture at some point.

[Merlin the Tuna]

But this means... That the dark one's plan B of destroying the world and making a new one involving him is a valid snarl-threat-ending plan after all, isn't it?Possibly, but as Anonymouswizard mentioned, the old gods may still need to bring The Dark One into the fold in some capacity to save him from the Snarl. If they're resigned to the cycle and now know that new gods can spontaneously arise, they could simply decide that TDO is a jerk, let him die, and stay in the current holding panel unless a more cooperative god/pantheon manifests however many millennia from now.

Edit: I also have to say that I love Thor's specific comment of "There's a new crayon in the box". It's a nice "dumbing down" of the situation that also calls back to the Snarl overview being illustrated in crayon.

[Resileaf]

So I see the upcoming setup: The original Gods and Dark One team up to create another four-color creation that can take on the Snarl on an even footing.

However, if new colors can be created, what's to stop the Snarl from creating its own new color, and creating a FIVE-color creation?

Oh, because Wizards of the Coast would sue. Nevermind. ;)

The Snarl has until now been said to be unable to create anything, and it is formed from the essence of four pantheons. It can't add itself a color out of nowhere because it's not a divine being.
So unless the Dark One gave his power to the Snarl, it would remain at its four-color power.

[Lews]

I was wondering on the position of the Dark One and the elven/dwarven ascended in those revelations before that (and I still hope we'll get to see an ascended soda cup in a Pantheon :smallbiggrin: )


It's safe to assume the reason his quiddity is different is due to the fact that he was once mortal himself.

Or maybe a mortal can only ascend in the Pantheon he was born under ? Dwarves are Northern, so they go Yellow. Elves are Western, so they go Red.
Goblins, though ? As they were abandonned by the gods to be XP fodder, the Dark One might have been able to create his color ?

[hroþila]

Maybe the Dark One's quiddity is different because, as a goblinoid, the gods created him as a lesser being, whereas both dwarves and elves were more in line with the existing gods' quiddities. Or maybe it won't have anything to do with this. We appear to be mid-exposition and I have very little idea of where this is going, so I think I'm going to wait for the next update before speculating further.

[Trillium]

So... if the Dark one isn't one of the colors which created the snarl... does that mean... he's IMMUNE to the snarl?

BTW: is this the first time that TDO has appeared as anything other than Crayon?

There could be a problem... Snarl could be immune to him too.
What gods really need to is a Green Lantern (we've seen Batman and Firestorm in the comic already, so a Green Lantern must exist too)

[Riftwolf]

This revelation is making me wonder:
What if Redcloaks plan isn't doing what he thinks it's doing at all?
What if the Dark One isn't plotting against the other Gods at all?

[RMS Oceanic]

Can I just say how cool the Dark One looks in this updated art style?
Great page overall, I wonder what Thor's plan is.

Seems pretty clear to me: Get the Dark One on board with the other Pantheons to build something to permanently contain the Snarl.

Now how we're gonna get there is immensely difficult and I don't see the path just yet, but I trust Rich has got it laid out.

[hroþila]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?565145-Cooperation&p=23258313#post23258313

I remember awhile ago I got shot down hard for suggesting a possible Order/Redcloak cooperative venture at some point.
Well, you didn't simply suggest some kind of cooperation, you were talking about cooperating with Redcloak's Plan. Big difference.

[sillymel]

Wow! This comic’s just been one amazing strip after another lately!

[JavaScribe]

If the Dark One has something that unique and valuable, then doesn't that put him in an extremely powerful bartering position? Why haven't the other gods compromised with him already, and why does he need the plan?

[RatElemental]

Huh. Quiddity is a real word and it actually is a synonym for essence.

Didn't take Thor for the type to use such obscure words.

[runeghost]

This is one of those moments when an author shows he is a true master of storytelling.

Agreed. The ability to take these things *that we already knew* and combine them to make you go, "whoa, wow" is true talent.

[Trillium]

Huh. Quiddity is a real word and it actually is a synonym for essence.

Didn't take Thor for the type to use such obscure words.

if quiddity means essence, would quintessence be quintquiddity? :smallconfused:

[KrankenWagon]

There could be a problem... Snarl could be immune to him too.
What gods really need to is a Green Lantern (we've seen Batman and Firestorm in the comic already, so a Green Lantern must exist too)

Green Lantern is in the comic with Firestorm and Batman, comic 359 (I would link it but am not allowed, still need 2 more posts :smallfrown:)

[CoffeeIncluded]

I actually gasped. The elven gods are part of the western pantheon so they can’t help here. But The Dark One is a pantheon of one...

And now we see the endgame fall into place.

[Roland Itiative]

Loved this whole colour explanation. And I bet Thor wished for a second there that this world was a cyberpunk/sci-fi one, so that initial explanation wouldn't go so over Durkon's head.

I have to wonder, though... Could the Dark One (and the elven gods, I guess... have we ever seen their aura colour, by the way?) imbue the current world with his colour? And how is this really such a once-in-an-eternity opportunity? If they destroy this world, the Dark One will be among the creators of the next (making it a four-colour world), won't he?

[Father Miles]

If the Dark One has something that unique and valuable, then doesn't that put him in an extremely powerful bartering position? Why haven't the other gods compromised with him already, and why does he need the plan?

Probably because most of the other gods just aren't as a) caring and b) pragmatic as Thor.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

As I recall, TDO only discovered that goblinoids were given a raw deal on purpose after his ascension.

Don't have SoD handy, but I thought he confirmed it after ascension, but probably suspected something along those lines - especially if no god would answer goblin prayers.

Grey Wolf

[Keltest]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?565145-Cooperation&p=23258313#post23258313

I remember awhile ago I got shot down hard for suggesting a possible Order/Redcloak cooperative venture at some point.

Redcloak cooperating with the Order is still highly unlikely. Regardless of the Dark One's position on the matter, Redcloak needs this specific plan to work out to justify to himself everything he's done to obtain it. I don't know what would happen if TDO abandoned The Plan and told Redcloak to play ball, but I highly doubt that it would result in Redcloak shrugging and shifting gears without a fight.

[Kantaki]

So... if the Dark one isn't one of the colors which created the snarl... does that mean... he's IMMUNE to the snarl?

BTW: is this the first time that TDO has appeared as anything other than Crayon?

I don't think so.
He's still only one colour, making him less „real” than the Snarl.
That he's made from a completely different material doesn't change that the Snarl has vastly more- let's call it mass -it would bring to bear in a clash.

Also, I really didn't expect the different colours of the Pantheons to be actually important.
Clever.:smallcool:

[happycrow]

Did anybody dun-dun-dunn yet? Because I totally feel like I have to

DUN-DUN-DUNNNNN!!

[chopswil5]

prediction: so a team-up with Redcloak against the snarl but Zykon won't like and will have to be destroyed first

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If they destroy this world, the Dark One will be among the creators of the next (making it a four-colour world), won't he?

Will he? I still think (headcanon) that ascended gods can't survive their own iterations, because once the mortals are gone, the belief that sustains them fades and so do they.

Heck, if my headcanon is right, that's a good entry for negotiations with RC and the DO.

Grey Wolf

[Skull the Troll]

Ahhhh! But if I recall correctly, the Dark One wants a better deal for Goblinkind NOW, or the snarl gets released.

I really feel that the character development and of Redcloak and all the Goblins have led to this point.

Which is actually good for the world. They just have to let Gobbotopia be and we can start working with the Dark One to defeat the snarl once and for all.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Ah, love me some theological QCD in the morning. Seriously, it is interesting to get this confirmation about why the Snarl was theorized to be more effective against a god than a mortal of similar power. Now I’m just really curious to see a) why this world was different enough that the Dark One appeared, b) what separates the Dark One from pantheons like the Elven one (perhaps that they chose to join in with the Western gods gave them the same quiddity?), and c) what exactly Thor plans to do with the Dark One.

[KorvinStarmast]

Hmm, The Color Purple. Interesting call back, Rich. The whole strip was a great set up for the final frame.
*Applause*

And there, off to the side, is Zeus and his pantheon singing "it's not easy being green" ... in the void.

Maybe, the Dark One's aura ought to be indigo.

[Keltest]

Don't have SoD handy, but I thought he confirmed it after ascension, but probably suspected something along those lines - especially if no god would answer goblin prayers.

Grey Wolf
I, however, do. There is specifically a scene where he confronts the elder gods to express his surprise and outrage at the perceived injustice. The specific wording used indicates that he only just found out.

Granted, this is in the crayon segment, however so is every other appearance of TDO so far.

[shylocxs]

New comic is up.

Wow.

As a genuine, honest to them philosopher, with a PhD in aesthetics and everything, that's impressive. 1141 comics, years of writing and drawing and creating, so wonderfully and thought provokingly wrapped up into a perfect package. I'm impressed.

Quiddity. Man, that's good ontology. Now just as long as no one brings gouda to the party.

[MartianInvader]

As a math nerd, I gotta say I love the description of Gods as "Divine singularities". "Singularity" is used to describe things like the big bang and the center of a black hole, basically points in spacetime where the laws of physics break down.

[Peelee]

Will he? I still think (headcanon) that ascended gods can't survive their own iterations, because once the mortals are gone, the belief that sustains them fades and so do they.

Heck, if my headcanon is right, that's a good entry for negotiations with RC and the DO.

Grey Wolf

I'm fencesitting, but Im not so sure; the Giant said the gods only had one chance to kill the defied Dark One, whuch wouldbt be true if they could just blow the world and wait for his soul juice to run out.

[Fyraltari]

oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. This is going to be good.

[Zonkerbl]

Archive reference please! I'm lost.

[nohamotyo]

This is perhaps a long shot, but is there any chance Roy's green glow (example here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1128.html) has anything to do with the Eastern Gods? Having four colors in the crayon box would be one thing -- if somehow there's a way to have a remnant of the deceased gods' strength that could very well surpass the Snarl.

[bc56]

So the new challenge is getting the Dark One to join up with everyone else, who he most definitely hates with a passion.
He's like the Belkar of the gods.

On the topic of whether the Dark One is still around for the next world, consider that he definitely has enough worshippers (several related races) to survive to the next, as long as the snarl doesn't kill them all, and also a safe outer plane to hide on (Acheron).

[bc56]

This is perhaps a long shot, but is there any chance Roy's green glow (example here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1128.html) has anything to do with the Eastern Gods? Having four colors in the crayon box would be one thing -- if somehow there's a way to have a remnant of the deceased gods' strength that could very well surpass the Snarl.

It's not quite the same green, and it seems to be more symbolic of the green hilt of Roy's sword.

[RMS Oceanic]

This is perhaps a long shot, but is there any chance Roy's green glow (example here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1128.html) has anything to do with the Eastern Gods? Having four colors in the crayon box would be one thing -- if somehow there's a way to have a remnant of the deceased gods' strength that could very well surpass the Snarl.

By that logic V's pink aura could do the job. It's about what your colour is when you're divine, otherwise you're out of luck.

[Roland Itiative]

I don't think so.
He's still only one colour, making him less „real” than the Snarl.

Is he, though? I mean, he was a mortal once, so made of red, yellow and blue like everything else in the world. Did he lose his "original" colours when he ascended, or did his divine quiddity just get added to it, making him a four-colour being like the Snarl?

These pages raise so many questions, I love them :smalltongue:

[Xihirli]

I love it.

You have to befriend Redcloak! It is the only way!

[denthor]

This is perhaps a long shot, but is there any chance Roy's green glow (example here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1128.html) has anything to do with the Eastern Gods? Having four colors in the crayon box would be one thing -- if somehow there's a way to have a remnant of the deceased gods' strength that could very well surpass the Snarl.

Good catch it went completely past me.

[Peelee]

oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. This is going to be good.

How I imagine you right now (http://i.imgur.com/m7lzLQ2.gif). :smallsmile:

Archive reference please! I'm lost.

What are you lost on?

[Zonkerbl]

Archive reference please! I'm lost.

nevermind http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0704.html

[FlawedParadigm]

Well, you didn't simply suggest some kind of cooperation, you were talking about cooperating with Redcloak's Plan. Big difference.

Well, I was speaking of cooperation without the _destructive_ parts of The Plan. More the social justice parts.

Interesting that they may well end up needing cooperation for somewhat different reasons. The Order may still need Redcloak for reasons Xykon won't approve of at all. Should be interesting to see the future. The Plan needs Redcloak, but Xykon is optional if V could fill in the Arcane role and The Plan can be adapted against the Snarl in some fashion.

There's still that spoilery thing at the end of SoD though...

[warmachine]

Well done to those who predicted it was about the Dark One.

This creates an interesting problem. The Dark One was created because the goblinoids worshipped him instead of the other gods. In order to contain the Snarl, the gods must allow mortals to worship completely new beings, leading to a new quiddity. The gods must create mortals that reject them. Presumably, undermining what the gods need to survive.

Worse, new gods that remember why their mortal worshippers rejected the old gods. The old gods must create mortals that don't like them and, consequently, new gods that don't like them. Then work with them to create a new world. That's gonna need a lot of smooth talking.


This still needs explanation of where Durkon comes into this. The current world cannot contain the Snarl but a new one created with the Dark One might. That still requires the current world to be undone.

[KorvinStarmast]

This is perhaps a long shot, but is there any chance Roy's green glow (example here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1128.html) has anything to do with the Eastern Gods? Having four colors in the crayon box would be one thing -- if somehow there's a way to have a remnant of the deceased gods' strength that could very well surpass the Snarl. It is made of starmetal. Perhaps that star metal source, the rock Roy took from the Dragon's cave, fell to OoTS world from a star that had been created back before the snarl ate the Eastern Pantheon.

It's a reach, sure, but stars are old.

That would make the Order (red-yellow-blue) plus the Dark one (purple?) PLUS the green of Eastern pantheon (a vestige in the star metal in the sword) a total of five colors, and thus (based on Thor's other points) stronger than the Snarl with four colors

We'll see.

I like the "real honest-to-us independent mortals like you" line. Also like Minrah's mutt analogy.

[Nightcanon]

Huh. Quiddity is a real word and it actually is a synonym for essence.

Didn't take Thor for the type to use such obscure words.

Maybe it's not obscure to gods, but a jargon word that's in regular use by them?

[Talion]

Alrighty, colour me impressed. Did not see that coming.

In that case, my question will boil down to "What, if any, plans are there to help fill out the Dark One's pantheon so that one god doesn't get the voting power of 1/4 of all the other pantheons?" (Which if memory serves right was around 50 individuals?). Fill it in with the other ascended gods (and demi gods?) maybe?

[Devor]

So it sounds like this world being self-aware somehow created a new worldview that allowed the Dark One to have a new color.

[Vittek]

"Oh, I get it! It's like how mutts are healthier than purebreed dogs!"
"Right, Minrah! Good bo- I mean, good analogy!"
:smallbiggrin:

[jwhouk]

I literally exclaimed, "OOOOH" out loud when I saw the image of the Dark One. I feel like this arc has been reframing everything we knew about this conflict at least once a page for a while. Is this going to end with a team-up with Redcloack??? Because I would be totally down for that.

I also went, "Ohhhh!" after reading this. Of course, I also started to read Start of Darkness, too, so this isn't that surprising.

[B. Dandelion]

Holy hell that was awesome. I'm a little giddy at how this seemingly makes it much, much more likely that Redcloak will have to team up with the good guys eventually.

It's kind of ironic that Thor sees the Dark One as their key to breaking the cycle for good, given that SoD has Thor wanting to destroy TDO on the spot after he ascended. I'm guessing this doesn't help make the purple one more receptive to anything Thor has to say, unfortunately.

[Lathund]

Now THAT's a revelation!

Man, this turns the whole comic upside-down.

[Worldsong]

Awesome. I love it when writers successfully pull stuff like this.

This does also support one idea I had (and many others I believe), that the difficult thing Durkon has to do which he won't like is 'Work together with Redcloak'. Granted I had yet to form a complete theory (and never voiced what little I had), so I can't really boast about being correct.

My line of reasoning was along the lines of "Thor's request has to be related to dealing with the Snarl, but Durkon is already trying to stop the Snarl so it has to be a method for dealing with the Snarl which Durkon wouldn't approve of. Letting the world be destroyed wouldn't be a request Thor would make because he voted otherwise, letting the Snarl break loose would be stupid, and letting Redcloak and Xykon do their thing would potentially be catastrophical. Xykon is a lost cause, so... I'm guessing Durkon has to cooperate with Redcloak in some way, but I don't know in what manner."


All these new theories about The Dark One are ignoring a troubling possibility:

Is The Dark One actually The Dark One? Does he want what Redcloak thinks he wants? The Snarl may be made out of four colors, but it seems pretty...violet

When Thor, who both knows the Snarl and the Eastern Pantheon (and thus knows both the Snarl's composition and every part that makes up that composition) says that the Dark One is a new colour I'm taking that as the theory "The Dark One is secretly (part of) the Snarl" being shot in the back until the comic itself provides some very explicit hints that Thor is missing something important.

[Sir_Norbert]

Idle question: How do we know that the elven deities are ascended mortals? We've had so little information about them, I was under the impression we basically didn't know anything at all.

[nohamotyo]

By that logic V's pink aura could do the job. It's about what your colour is when you're divine, otherwise you're out of luck.

It helps that Roy is the hero of the story and not Vaarsuvius -- if the glow weren't green I wouldn't have raised the point. I think the explanation that it's an extension of the sword makes more sense than my guess, and the glow does look different than the divine auras. Since nobody brought it up, I figured it's best to get the guess in now.

[warmachine]

Thor doesn't strike me as a philosopher or a strategist, so I'm wondering if he's following someone else's plan.

[factotum]

Is he, though? I mean, he was a mortal once, so made of red, yellow and blue like everything else in the world. Did he lose his "original" colours when he ascended, or did his divine quiddity just get added to it, making him a four-colour being like the Snarl?

He would have a multi-coloured aura if that were the case, and he clearly does not. There's also the point that the mortals in world #1 were also four-coloured, and they all died, so just being four colours isn't enough to make you immune to the Snarl--it just means you won't die quite as fast.

[PontificatusRex]

In that case, my question will boil down to "What, if any, plans are there to help fill out the Dark One's pantheon so that one god doesn't get the voting power of 1/4 of all the other pantheons?" (Which if memory serves right was around 50 individuals?). Fill it in with the other ascended gods (and demi gods?) maybe?

Along this line, I was going to say that perhaps the reason why it's important to preserve this world instead of scrap it and build a new one with the Dark One right now is that there needs to be a whole violet pantheon for it to be successful. Otherwise it would seem to make the most sense to recycle the world now, save all the souls, and then start building the world that would be able to resist the Snarl.

[Rrmcklin]

It looks like goblins might be immune to snarling.
That's interesting... And would certainly provide them with the validation and acceptance they want

Also, why is the snarl drawn as purple if it's actually red, yellow, blue, and green

And darnit, now I want to create a world which uses this color theory

What? Why would the goblins be immune to the Snarl? They were created with the same three colors as everything else in the world.

[Blue Griffin]

Love the fact that Thor says "there's a new color in the crayon box." As a casual throw back to the crayon colored Snarl lesson.

"The problem is your world and all the other's but one..."
So does this mean the first world was created by the 4 colors? Is it still around or has it been destroyed?

What color would Banjo have it he was a real god?

[Fish]

What about the God Banjo the Clown? So will Banjo bring balance to the Dark One?
Well, Banjo’s aura is orange... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0080.html) if that’s an aura.

[Trillium]

So wait-wait-wait-wait-wait, could it be that the whole Azure City thing - starting with its rise to power while led BY PALADINS, i.e. people who follow divine will unquestioningly - could exist specifically because Gods wanted Azurites and especially misinformed paladins to oppress goblindoids, so that another goblinoid would rise to bring them vengeance and become a second purple god?

Because if you think about it, Redcloak is adored by thousands if not millions of goblinoids, he's forging relationship with other goblinoids at the moment - who don't care for the Dark One and so are open to actually believing in him, like Dark One he has no NAME, but an alias, he is very powerful and has a clear sense of purpose... Redcloak has all the making of a deity.

tl;dr
Could Azure City be set up by gods as a cynical sacrifice to raise another goblinoid into godhood?

[Heksefatter]

I just wanna say what so many have said before: I like Thor. He really DOES seem like a stand up gu - uh, god.

[Syncrogti]

All worlds but one were made of three colors. I wonder if the world in the rift is the first world...

Who the heck is whom? Can you clarify which person you're asking about?

Sorry, the last panel showed a new figure, I did not know that was the Dark One, but gathered it from reading other's comments.

[Riarra]

I love this so much. Non-crayon info on the Dark One! The possibility of a team up with Redcloak! I love how the Dark One could only have come from the self-aware fantasy parody world. The gods had to scrape the bottom of the ideas barrel before they could get the chance to fix things. I've been torn for a while on whether I'd rather see Redcloak become the final villain or join up with the Order somehow, and I'm still torn, but I'm so eager to see where this goes!

[The Aboleth]

Is the "mutts are healthier than purebred dogs" claim actually true? My limited Google research seemed to suggest that the claim is actually inconclusive: purebreds might have a higher risk of genetic diseases, but mutts are often more susceptible to infectious diseases (mostly stemming from the fact mutts are often in shelters, whereas purebreds are more frequently bought directly from breeders).

Can anyone confirm or deny this claim? I know it's not terribly important overall, but I am curious.

[Trillium]

Hmmm, by the way, we know gods can have offspring... can't a Northern and a Southern god get busy? Yellow+Blue=Green, no?

[Roland Itiative]

He would have a multi-coloured aura if that were the case, and he clearly does not. There's also the point that the mortals in world #1 were also four-coloured, and they all died, so just being four colours isn't enough to make you immune to the Snarl--it just means you won't die quite as fast.

I don't think he'd get a multi-coloured aura, because the aura only reflects his divine essence, which may be different than his entire composition, in the case of an ascended god. Maybe he lost his "original colours" as he ascended, but maybe he didn't, and I don't think we have any evidence to nudge us either way.

I'm not saying this will become a plot point or anything, and I completely agree that it wouldn't make him immune to the Snarl, but the idea of an ascended mortal becoming "less real" as they turn into gods just seems weird to me.

EDIT: But then again... regardless of the composition of the Dark One, maybe the Snarl really can't destroy four-coloured beings. We still have yet to hear from Thor about the world within the Rift, there's still a chance that the "Snarl destroyed the first world and ate all the souls" tale is just what the gods believe happened, and not fact.

[Merlin the Tuna]

A new thought occurs: most of the discussion of The Dark One's plans exist in Start of Darkness... meaning it isn't in the strip proper. For the sake of continuity & readability, I have to wonder how much stock to put in the story as it was presented then vs. how much will be reiterated/reinterpreted within the webcomic.

[Basement Cat]

So I was right that they'll need Red Cloak.

Not because of the purple color bit, but they will need Red Cloak.

I, too, wonder about the Elven dieties. I hope that gets explained later.

[Worldsong]

Hmmm, by the way, we know gods can have offspring... can't a Northern and a Southern god get busy? Yellow+Blue=Green, no?

Since this hasn't happened in all those years of building countless worlds I'm guessing either divine offspring gets one aura and the other is lost or they become a mix of two just as mortals are a mix of three.

[Reboot]

He would have a multi-coloured aura if that were the case, and he clearly does not. There's also the point that the mortals in world #1 were also four-coloured, and they all died,...

Or did they? Dun-Dun-DUNN... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html)

[Rrmcklin]

I'm fencesitting, but Im not so sure; the Giant said the gods only had one chance to kill the defied Dark One, whuch wouldbt be true if they could just blow the world and wait for his soul juice to run out.

Grey Wolf hasn't has provided adequate (at least, not IMO) for why the ascended mortals would be specifically sustained by actual belief of their followers, instead of the power of their actual souls, like with all the other gods.

Because it's been made clear that the souls of the deceased goblinoids go to the Dark One after death, and they should be fueling him like any other gods followers.

[Peelee]

Or did they? Dun-Dun-DUNN... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html)

Probably (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html). DUN-DUN-DUNN...

[Lord Torath]

In that case, my question will boil down to "What, if any, plans are there to help fill out the Dark One's pantheon so that one god doesn't get the voting power of 1/4 of all the other pantheons?" (Which if memory serves right was around 50 individuals?). Fill it in with the other ascended gods (and demi gods?) maybe?Giggles (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0561.html)! As an orcish deity, he ought to be in the indigo/violet pantheon, right?


Or did they? Dun-Dun-DUNN... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html)Yes, they all died (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html). Edit: Ninja'd.

[Delusion]

A new thought occurs: most of the discussion of The Dark One's plans exist in Start of Darkness... meaning it isn't in the strip proper. For the sake of continuity & readability, I have to wonder how much stock to put in the story as it was presented then vs. how much will be reiterated/reinterpreted within the webcomic.

The Plan was presented here aswell:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html

[Riftwolf]

Idle question: How do we know that the elven deities are ascended mortals? We've had so little information about them, I was under the impression we basically didn't know anything at all.

I think there's a throwaway line on SoD about when elves ascended. My guess is Thor will explain how the Dark One is different to, say, Dvalin or Surtr in the next comic (possibly because he's worshipped to the exclusion of other deities, whereas Dvalin and the other ascendants are worshipped alongside the OG)

[Bluepaw]

Oh, braVO. Just when we thought the stakes couldn't be raised again.

[Zonkerbl]

Maybe it's not obscure to gods, but a jargon word that's in regular use by them?

What does that make Quidditch?

[Bisqwit]

So uh, is nobody going to talk about that little innocent drop “generate what we gods need to survive”? What is that?

[Rrmcklin]

So uh, is nobody going to talk about that little innocent drop “generate what we gods need to survive”? What is that?

Presumably the power of their souls. We know that when mortals die, they're souls go to their proper alignment plane to power the gods.

[The MunchKING]

I literally exclaimed, "OOOOH" out loud when I saw the image of the Dark One.

As soon as he said the Snarl was made out of four, I guessed that's where this was going.

[Silly Name]

So uh, is nobody going to talk about that little innocent drop “generate what we gods need to survive”? What is that?

Well, we know that Hel has been lamenting that the few souls she gets make her weaker than the rest of the Pantheon, and she also said that getting all the dwarves' souls would give her enough of a "power rush" to overthrow Odin himself. Back when she was showing the bet, Hel also said that souls grant you power.

In some D&D settings, gods operate on a "need prayer/belief to survive and be powerful", with widely-worshipped gods being stronger because they have more followers, and minor gods being weaker because less people actually pray to them.

It seems that OotS-world gods get stronger the more souls they have under their divine purview, and thus mortals are necessary for a god to thrive. In fact, belief is probably what caused the ascension of Dvalin, the elven gods and The Dark One.

[LadyEowyn]

YES! Yes yes yes!

I knew where this had to be going as soon as I finished the first page. The only way the gods can make a stable world is to include the Dark One as an equal partner and treat goblinoids as equal to the other PC races!

Which means Redcloak and the Dark One are not the problem here - they're the ''solution''. But they don't know that yet.

(Also, it answers one of the questions being asked in the last thread - this is the first world in which the Dark One has existed.)

[Keltest]

Is the "mutts are healthier than purebred dogs" claim actually true? My limited Google research seemed to suggest that the claim is actually inconclusive: purebreds might have a higher risk of genetic diseases, but mutts are often more susceptible to infectious diseases (mostly stemming from the fact mutts are often in shelters, whereas purebreds are more frequently bought directly from breeders).

Can anyone confirm or deny this claim? I know it's not terribly important overall, but I am curious.

AFAIK, its true. Purebred dogs were often bred before we really understood what we were doing to the dog, so we have such things as pugs being unable to breathe because we bred for them to have tiny squished faces without big enough air passages for, you know, air.

Purebreds end up with more problems inherent to the dog itself rather than the environment it's in.

[AutomatedTeller]

Go Rich!! Man, this is getting deep!!

[Azazyll]

I wonder if this will help to explain The Thing in the Darkness' inability to see the gates.

I don't know how, it just seems to me this might be related.

[LunarDrop]

*Slow clap*

Rich, your storytelling abilities never fail to amaze me. You explain so well what makes the gods weaker than the snarl, but still have been able to create it, why the gods are so carefree about this world's destruction, the introduction of The Dark One, and you STILL manage to make the entire thing easy to read and understand while still being entertaining.

I don't exaggerate when I say you are the most inspiring writer I've ever read from.

[Chei]

This page is already talking about 'all four colors' as if that's as high as we're going to go. I don't buy it.

[Peelee]

This page is already talking about 'all four colors' as if that's as high as we're going to go. I don't buy it.

You believe that other mortals will be raised as gods in new Pantheon?

[jwhouk]

prediction: so a team-up with Redcloak against the snarl but Zykon won't like and will have to be destroyed first

Vegas just called. No Line. Odds against this not happening are a googol to one.

[Laurana]

Wow. I got a strong sense of foreboding as I read the title. I got goosebumps upon seeing the last panel. Absolutely fantastic.

[MrConsideration]

So if they create something in conjunction with The Dark One, it could challenge the Snarl? Being four colour?

[xroads]

Wow! I totally did not see this twist coming. Nice one Rich.

[chy03001]

Props to Giant for weaving such a layered story.

"Do you think he plans it all out... or makes it up as he goes along?"

[Alsadius]

Huh, and here I thought it would be the Gates.

Very, very cool.

[Casimir-Ivanova]

So uh, is nobody going to talk about that little innocent drop “generate what we gods need to survive”? What is that?

As a Godbound, I can help there.
Faith is ultimately what gods need, through prayer and mortal will. A god's strength goes up as more followers are obtained, his dominion over the world increasing. In the Godbound ttrpg, this allows a Godbound to access more of his power set more easily, give him more health and so on. It's quite a fascinating thing. For example, harsher rules over your followers gives you more dominion and power, but makes it more difficult to spread your religion. So do you go easy on them and rely on a faster spread, or go hard and get a more devoted core? Thor seems to be the more chilled route.

As for the twist, nope, didn't see that one coming. Well done Rich.

[Jade_Tarem]

So, if the Snarl is the beginnings of a different world, and has a special god-color no one in this world has seen before, does that mean the Order of the Stick will be fighting The Colour Out of Space?

(Someone may have made this joke already, and if so I apologize. I didn't have time to scan the whole thread).

[PH7]

Lot of people talking about the gods creating a new world. One that will finally, definitely contain the Snarl. But that would mean killing off the existing world, including the OotS (and everything else). I rather doubt that will be the plan, as that would hardly constitute a "happy ending", for Elan or the readers.

The new existence of the Dark One means that all gods would have to cooperate to create a new world, one that includes the goblinoids as equals. For many gods, such a thing would be unacceptable. And they don't have time to discuss everything with their new colleague before the Snarl wipes them out.

The appearance of the Dark One means, I think, the end of the cycle. The old 'rinse and repeat' process many gods have consigned themselves to is no longer valid. It's the OotS world, or no more worlds. And no more gods.


I wonder why Thor seems to be the only god whose planning has included the Dark One. Why would the other gods not know or care about a new quiddity?

[The MunchKING]

Interesting. I wonder what prevented other gods from appearing in previous worlds. Time? Or was it the specific circumstances of this particular world? Perhaps the fact that creatures were created specifically to be XP fodder but were fully aware of it made it possible?

Alternately they appeared in previous worlds, but like the elves, merged into other pantheons and were assimilated or forgotten.


I'm fencesitting, but Im not so sure; the Giant said the gods only had one chance to kill the defied Dark One, whuch wouldbt be true if they could just blow the world and wait for his soul juice to run out.

Well the other option might be that if they tried to wait for the Dark One to burn out, a lot of their lesser members might burn out too...

I mean even if Goblins don't have a LOT of soul power they breed fast, have lots of babies and the Dark One doesn't have to share. Meanwhile the Elves Breed infrequently, have few children, and the Elvish Gods have to split them with the Western Pantheon. So while they're waiting for the Dark One to burn out, a few of the Elven ones might burnout too...


So wait-wait-wait-wait-wait, could it be that the whole Azure City thing - starting with its rise to power while led BY PALADINS, i.e. people who follow divine will unquestioningly - could exist specifically because Gods wanted Azurites and especially misinformed paladins to oppress goblindoids, so that another goblinoid would rise to bring them vengeance and become a second purple god?

Because if you think about it, Redcloak is adored by thousands if not millions of goblinoids, he's forging relationship with other goblinoids at the moment - who don't care for the Dark One and so are open to actually believing in him, like Dark One he has no NAME, but an alias, he is very powerful and has a clear sense of purpose... Redcloak has all the making of a deity.

tl;dr
Could Azure City be set up by gods as a cynical sacrifice to raise another goblinoid into godhood?

Interesting theory, but wouldn't Redcloak just go join the Dark One in the Purple Pantheon?


Vegas just called. No Line. Odds against this not happening are a googol to one.

I would take that bet. In fact I've got 99,999,999 GP that say that Zykon and what he wants will be completely irrelevant to the plot. :smallbiggrin:

[Rouge Wolf]

I find it interesting that gods do not grasp that they are the primary colors. By two combining they would create demi-gods. Bet we will find the Dark One was created because a pair from south and west were being naughty.

[Peelee]

As a Godbound, I can help there.
Faith is ultimately what gods need, through prayer and mortal will. A god's strength goes up as more followers are obtained, his dominion over the world increasing.

Nope. Souls. It's all about souls. Faith is nice, it means souls want to go to that god, but if the soul goes elsewhere, that faith did jack all. Hel didn't want faith, she wanted souls. That was her entire reasoning behind the bet. She doesn't want faith now, she wants souls. That's her entire reasoning behind the plan with the vampires.

It's soul food, baby.

[Vendanna]

Maybe the Dark One's quiddity is different because...

My theory is that TDO is purple because the goblinoids were created by the Red and Blue Panteons working together. Yellow had no part in the creating of goblinoids. So the reason of all that bickering is because they are 2 dimensional characters. :P

[Rrmcklin]

I find it interesting that gods do not grasp that they are the primary colors. By two combining they would create demi-gods. Bet we will find the Dark One was created because a pair from south and west were being naughty.

The Eastern Gods glowed green, and that's not a primary color. And the Dark One isn't a demi-god.

[Peelee]

I find it interesting that gods do not grasp that they are the primary colors. By two combining they would create demi-gods. Bet we will find the Dark One was created because a pair from south and west were being naughty.

They're primary colors for human visual range. Deific visual range is, I'd bet, different.

[The MunchKING]

She doesn't want faith now, she wants souls.

That's not ENTIRELY accurate. Part of her whining is that she doesn't get undeserved worship any more. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1082.html)

[Peelee]

That's not ENTIRELY accurate. Part of her whining is that she doesn't get undeserved worship any more. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1082.html)

Eh, that seems more like a bruised ego, but I could be a little off, I'll admit.

Also, Hel had longer hair before the bet. Interesting

[Windscion]

Okay, interesting fact here. The pantheons do not fight each other, not merely because no one wants Snarl junior, but because more pantheons = stronger reality.

(Also interesting that Snarl Junior would be weaker than Snarl Senior, but not important to the plot.)

[niklinna]

So the gods are sentient black holes? I don't think anyone saw this coming

Oh I don't know about that. Give the Night's Dawn trilogy a read. First novel is "The Reality Dysfunction".

[Roland Itiative]

I find it interesting that gods do not grasp that they are the primary colors. By two combining they would create demi-gods. Bet we will find the Dark One was created because a pair from south and west were being naughty.


The Eastern Gods glowed green, and that's not a primary color. And the Dark One isn't a demi-god.

There are two commonly used "sets" of primary colours, and the remaining three pantheons don't fit either. They are red/green/blue (would have fit very well if the Eastern and Northern pantheons had each other's colours) and cyan/magenta/yellow (of which only the Northern pantheon is a perfect match, though the Twelve Gods could very well be considered cyan, as they're a very light shade of blue). And either way, the more "complete" being in this case are made of four colours, rather than three, and purple is considered its own thing rather than a combination of colours, so I don't think actual colour theory has any hold in what's going on, despite the page title hinting at it :smalltongue:

[Fyraltari]

How I imagine you right now (http://i.imgur.com/m7lzLQ2.gif). :smallsmile:

^_^ Fair enough.

I love that Odin and Frigg are holding hands and smiling like that. I don't know what's cuter wether that's objective reality or how Thor sees them.

It's also great to see the gods in the new art style, I like the spikes on TDO and the fact that Redcloak totally copied his shoes.


I wonder though: why does Thor need Durkon for? He can't talk to TDO when Thor can.

I think there are already been negotiations and they went poorly. Maybe TDO refused to listen to the Old Gods, maybe he bargained for something they didn't want to give away... Absolute power maybe? With the entirety of the goblin souls going to him, whatever Hel wanted to do as "Queen of the North" he probably could. Unless Grey Wolf is right about his inability to survive this world, then the Plan might be his attempt at forcing an ultimatum. "Give me what I want or I shoot myself! And then you will be stuck again!"

I ddn't think it was important before but next strip has to explain what's going on with (the relative lack of) ascended mortals, now.

[Draconi Redfir]

And once again, the day (will be) saved by... GOBLINS!:biggrin:

Fellow Goblinoids of the Playground Rejoice!

[Lamora]

if quiddity means essence, would quintessence be quintquiddity? :smallconfused:
Interestingly, "quintessence" literally means "fifth essence", beyond the four elements of classical alchemy. Considering that The Dark One really is the fifth colour that changes everything, this is quite appropriate for him.

[Craig1f]

New comic is up.

This is actually a lot more clever than people think.
1) Purple is not a real color (bare with me). Your brain has invented it.
2) Purple and Green is KIND OF the same color, which is what has forced your brain to invent purple.
3) I don't know if Rich did this on purpose, but if he did, brilliant.

If you look at the rainbow, aka the full spectrum of light, purple does not show up on it. There is violet, but there is no purple.

Purple only exists when you combine blue and red. It can't exist on its own. Green can exist on its own.

Purple is the combination of blue and red. When you combine colors, you usually get the color midway between them on the spectrum. But when you look midway between blue and red, you get green. Except, there is already a color for green (because you have green cones in your eyes to see it). Green DEFINITELY isn't what you get when you combine blue and red. So, your brain invents purple to deconflict the two.

[The MunchKING]

I wonder though: why does Thor need Durkon for? He can't talk to TDO when Thor can.

Thor probably CAN'T (without breaking too many critical rules) direct Pantheon interactions were strictly forbidden.

He needs Durkon to go through Redcloak to get ideas to the Dark One because "Clerics as a buffer" are part of the whole "No more Snarl" plan.

Also The Dark One MIGHT be divinely hiding his massive soul army from the others.

[jwhouk]

The Snarl, if you go by the picture in the Rift in the Desert, is actually made up of four different colors.

[Peelee]

This is actually a lot more clever than people think.
1) Purple is not a real color (bare with me). Your brain has invented it.

Lies and falsehoods!

I'm colorblind. I literally can't see purple. It's a blue for me. Give me a bunch of shades of purple and a bunch of shades of blue, I can't tell such ones are supposed to be purple. They're all varying shades of blue.

[Draconi Redfir]

This is actually a lot more clever than people think.
1) Purple is not a real color (bare with me). Your brain has invented it.
2) Purple and Green is KIND OF the same color, which is what has forced your brain to invent purple.
3) I don't know if Rich did this on purpose, but if he did, brilliant.

If you look at the rainbow, aka the full spectrum of light, purple does not show up on it. There is violet, but there is no purple.

Purple only exists when you combine blue and red. It can't exist on its own. Green can exist on its own.

Purple is the combination of blue and red. When you combine colors, you usually get the color midway between them on the spectrum. But when you look midway between blue and red, you get green. Except, there is already a color for green (because you have green cones in your eyes to see it). Green DEFINITELY isn't what you get when you combine blue and red. So, your brain invents purple to deconflict the two.


all due respect, but i don't think it's that deep.

i get the feeling primary colours or mixing colours or colour-theory in general aren't a huge part of this.

the only thing that matters is that it's NOT yellow, blue, or red.

[Kaptin Keen]

Four colors aren't enough - it's only equal to the snarl. All of this is really the story of how Banjo the Clown saves the world. Him being the fifth, obviously.

[The Aboleth]

AFAIK, its true. Purebred dogs were often bred before we really understood what we were doing to the dog, so we have such things as pugs being unable to breathe because we bred for them to have tiny squished faces without big enough air passages for, you know, air.

Purebreds end up with more problems inherent to the dog itself rather than the environment it's in.

Interesting (and also very sad). I was aware that pugs have genetic problems, but was not sure such problems arose in all (or at least, most) purebred types of dogs. Thank you for the answer!

[Jasdoif]

He can't talk to TDO when Thor can.

I think there are already been negotiations and they went poorly.The Dark One was assassinated at what he thought was a negotiation for equal treatment. I suspect he's less willing to entertain the notion now...even if the Plan isn't the tool of revenge I strongly suspect it is.

[Tvtyrant]

This is so much better then I imagined it was going to be.

[HandofShadows]

That was a masterstroke. :smallcool:

[mjasghar]

AFAIK, its true. Purebred dogs were often bred before we really understood what we were doing to the dog, so we have such things as pugs being unable to breathe because we bred for them to have tiny squished faces without big enough air passages for, you know, air.

Purebreds end up with more problems inherent to the dog itself rather than the environment it's in.
And even now we know it it’s still happening - look at pigeons and now alpacas being bred for short snouts which means their faces have to be clipped regularly

[Particle_Man]

2nd- also, confirmed, the dark one is new as of this world. So they're going to have to get Redcloak to agree that the snail is dangerous and needs to be contained, probably when the world is about to get swallowed up, and then rbyp can save the day againt rgby.

If the Snarl is the same as the villain from the Dragon Magazine strips, that would be the biggest plot twist yet! :smallsmile:

Too bad Banjo would likely have the Yellow aura (of Odin and co) and so wouldn't be a fourth colour. Although, hey, 5 colours could *really* contain the Snarl.

I also wonder if the Snarl targetting the green aura gods deliberately? It made the Snarl nigh-invulnerable.

[TurboGhast]

If the Dark One has something that unique and valuable, then doesn't that put him in an extremely powerful bartering position? Why haven't the other gods compromised with him already, and why does he need the plan?

Because Dark One is a new deity he might not know that his unique essence is a powerful bartering point. Given the animosity between him and the other gods, it's reasonable that his knowledge of divine chromodynamics is incomplete.

[Rrmcklin]

Note that Thor isn't talking about this like it's a sure thing.

They have a chance to change things, not a guarantee. Assuming Thor isn't the only one to know about the colors (that wouldn't make much sense) it's safe to assume that many, maybe even most, of the other gods just don't consider his gamble (whatever it turns out to be) to be likely enough to work to be worthwhile to try.

[Crisis21]

Somewhere back in the Dwarven lands, Elan is saying "Dun, dun, DUN!" and doesn't know why.

[dtilque]

Ah, love me some theological QCD in the morning.

Ah yes. Quiddity Chromodynamics for breakfast. Think they've proven the Four Color Theorem in this universe?



Maybe, the Dark One's aura ought to be indigo.

But he's not a girl (http://indigogirls.com/)....

[Fyraltari]

Was The Dark One's skin always purple or did it change during his apotheosis? And if the former is it related or what?

[SilverCacaobean]

So this strip offers all the people saying that the snarl is more effective against gods some pretty good evidence of that. Gods are made of one colour and Thor seems to imply that the snarl is so effective against them because of that, while mortals are made of three, so they might be a bit more resistant to it because of that.

I said last strip how TDO's plan B would doom all the worlds but this kind of demolishes everything I said. I wonder (like a few other people here) does that mean that TDO's plan B would create a completely stable world? Or is there more to it?


I love me some world-building after all this business with Greg. It's a nice change of pace.
Also, I learned the word "quiddity" today. It's a funny word. Heh.


Was The Dark One's skin always purple or did it change during his apotheosis? And if the former is it related or what?

Just looked at this myself, it was always purple.
edit: Actually redcloak calls it violet.

[Trillium]

Interesting theory, but wouldn't Redcloak just go join the Dark One in the Purple Pantheon?


Exactly. They are interested in strengthening the Purple Pantheon, as I understand, because they'll want the 4th colour to be well-represented for the whole thing to work.

And besides that Redcloak has all makings of a Lawful Evil or maybe even a True Neutral deity, to keep the Neutral Evil Dark One in check (I reckon his questionable decisions and ugly methods in mortal life might not translate into his divine alignment, creating a deity based purely on his intentions, and those were mostly Neutral)

[Craig1f]

all due respect, but i don't think it's that deep.

i get the feeling primary colours or mixing colours or colour-theory in general aren't a huge part of this.

the only thing that matters is that it's NOT yellow, blue, or red.

Yeah, I think it was accidental. That's why I think it's cool ... he ACCIDENTALLY made it really interesting with the whole green/purple thing.

[Crisis21]

So... if the Dark one isn't one of the colors which created the snarl... does that mean... he's IMMUNE to the snarl?

BTW: is this the first time that TDO has appeared as anything other than Crayon?
No, for all that the Dark One is a new color, he's still just one color.

And, I think it is his first non-crayon appearance, and what a fine appearance it is.

[Grey Watcher]

I'll take "Plot Twists That Seem Like They Should Have Been Obvious in Retrospect" for 10,000 GP.

Seriously, the Dark One saves the world!? Not just for goblins, but the whole damn world!? That's totally awesome!

OK, so some speculation:

We know that the Snarl can't be contained indefinitely because it's a 4Q creature and the world is 3Q. So can they just thread purple into existing creation to finally fix the prison without having to unmake the world first? Because that's where I see this line of reasoning going.

Exactly how Redcloak will react to this news and the plan I think Thor's getting at is going to be, um... interesting.

Also, does this mean the planet in the rift is OOTS-world? If we assume quiddities are analogous to spatial dimensions, the Snarl is essentially a being that exists in 4-dimensions, the Gates aren't so much keeping it in as they're keeping it out? (I'll concede this line of thinking is probably over-analyzing, but I kinda like it.

[warmachine]

What's also surprising is Thor describing their aura colour as governed by natural laws. Assuming natural laws are universal across all time and space, mortals can also discover these laws. Such laws, especially ones associated with gods, should be known, recorded and learnt by clerics like Durkon. After all, wizards understand and exploit natural laws (even better than engineers).

Of course, it could be such some natural laws are beyond mortal ken and Thor keeps on forgetting that.

[Agnostik]

:haley: Wow. That's a lot more planning than I thought this strip had...

[M Placeholder]

Because Dark One is a new deity he might not know that his unique essence is a powerful bartering point. Given the animosity between him and the other gods, it's reasonable that his knowledge of divine chromodynamics is incomplete.

And also, pride and hubris on the side of the other gods. The long established gods probably think that TDO is a brash upstart that doesn't understand the way things are done and hasn't earned their respect.

[Peelee]

And also, pride and hubris on the side of the other gods. The long established gods probably think that TDO is a brash upstart that doesn't understand the way things are done and hasn't earned their respect.

Pride and hubris? In these gods? Say it ain't so, Joe.

[Crisis21]

Well, Banjo’s aura is orange... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0080.html) if that’s an aura.

No, that's a dramatic background. Bard standard issue, really.

[Kish]

What's also surprising is Thor describing their aura colour as governed by natural laws. Assuming natural laws are universal across all time and space, mortals can also discover these laws. Such laws, especially ones associated with gods, should be known, recorded and learnt by clerics like Durkon. After all, wizards understand and exploit natural laws (even better than engineers).

Of course, it could be such some natural laws are beyond mortal ken and Thor keeps on forgetting that.
You seem to be equating "can theoretically be observed" with "has been studied and explored thoroughly."

It's probable that "the Northern pantheon's aura color is yellow, the Southern pantheon's aura color is blue, the Western pantheon's aura color is red" is known. It's probably key to Azure City being azure and the Empire of Blood having the color scheme it does.

Beyond that, there's nothing that's established that could be observed. The best scientific minds in the stickworld could observe the Snarl escaping, once, and then they'd stop observing and all their notes would be mysteriously lost, but even if they somehow survived, they'd have no way to get from the A of "that thing can't be restrained by all the gods" to the B of "it's about colors and a pantheon that no longer exists."

[LostLight]

I just want to note that fiends, while have some colour to their bubble speech, essentially have black (that is, the lack of any colour) as their "defining trait". So it seems like that fiends are, essentially, "colourless beings" of some kind? Just something to think about.

Anyway, that's a really awesome strip! Can't wait to see what plan does Thor have in mind :P

[Draconi Redfir]

Yeah, I think it was accidental. That's why I think it's cool ... he ACCIDENTALLY made it really interesting with the whole green/purple thing.

ahh i see, sorry about that then :P


Exactly. They are interested in strengthening the Purple Pantheon, as I understand, because they'll want the 4th colour to be well-represented for the whole thing to work.

And besides that Redcloak has all makings of a Lawful Evil or maybe even a True Neutral deity, to keep the Neutral Evil Dark One in check (I reckon his questionable decisions and ugly methods in mortal life might not translate into his divine alignment, creating a deity based purely on his intentions, and those were mostly Neutral)

i like this idea. The only downside is that it involves killing Redcloak :P

[Crisis21]

I just want to note that fiends, while have some colour to their bubble speech, essentially have black (that is, the lack of any colour) as their "defining trait". So it seems like that fiends are, essentially, "colourless beings" of some kind? Just something to think about.

Anyway, that's a really awesome strip! Can't wait to see what plan does Thor have in mind :P

No, they have black as their magical aura. The way to tell the difference is that a magical aura is only visible when magic is being cast. A divine aura on the other hand is 'always on' and seemingly has no way to turn off.

TLDR: Magical auras =/= Divine auras

[Rrmcklin]

Exactly. They are interested in strengthening the Purple Pantheon, as I understand, because they'll want the 4th colour to be well-represented for the whole thing to work.

And besides that Redcloak has all makings of a Lawful Evil or maybe even a True Neutral deity, to keep the Neutral Evil Dark One in check (I reckon his questionable decisions and ugly methods in mortal life might not translate into his divine alignment, creating a deity based purely on his intentions, and those were mostly Neutral)

Who is "they", and where in any part of what Thor said did you get that they need more than the Dark One for whatever it is that Thor has in mind?

You're making a lot of assumptions and talking about them as if they've already been established as facts.

[mjasghar]

This is actually a lot more clever than people think.
1) Purple is not a real color (bare with me). Your brain has invented it.
2) Purple and Green is KIND OF the same color, which is what has forced your brain to invent purple.
3) I don't know if Rich did this on purpose, but if he did, brilliant.

If you look at the rainbow, aka the full spectrum of light, purple does not show up on it. There is violet, but there is no purple.

Purple only exists when you combine blue and red. It can't exist on its own. Green can exist on its own.

Purple is the combination of blue and red. When you combine colors, you usually get the color midway between them on the spectrum. But when you look midway between blue and red, you get green. Except, there is already a color for green (because you have green cones in your eyes to see it). Green DEFINITELY isn't what you get when you combine blue and red. So, your brain invents purple to deconflict the two.

As an optician it’s more that our eyes see in 4 colours - red/green and blue/yellow which is how the Union Jack aftereffect illusion works
So purple is stimulating blue with some red

[Keltest]

Interesting (and also very sad). I was aware that pugs have genetic problems, but was not sure such problems arose in all (or at least, most) purebred types of dogs. Thank you for the answer!

Its not, strictly speaking, a universal property of purebred dogs, but most of the breeds that exist today were bred without the health of the dog in mind (the pug, again, being the go to example). Combined with what was basically inbreeding, and it was a formula for serious issues.

[M Placeholder]

So in the OOTS World, the Hobgoblins are Orange, Goblins are green, Bugbears are olive and Blues are Blue.

What colour would the Nilbogs and Norkers have to be for all the five colours of the various Goblinoid races to produce the violet colour of TDO when mixed together?

[Keltest]

So in the OOTS World, the Hobgoblins are Orange, Goblins are green, Bugbears are olive and Blues are Blue.

What colour would the Nilbogs and Norkers have to be for all the five colours of the various Goblinoid races to produce the violet colour of TDO when mixed together?

Green and Orange together will already produce a (rather bright) brown color, and its basically impossible to get rid of that taint unless its such a tiny minority that it mostly doesn't impact the end result at all.

[Nomen]

Well done to those who predicted it was about the Dark One.

This creates an interesting problem. The Dark One was created because the goblinoids worshipped him instead of the other gods. In order to contain the Snarl, the gods must allow mortals to worship completely new beings, leading to a new quiddity. The gods must create mortals that reject them. Presumably, undermining what the gods need to survive.

Worse, new gods that remember why their mortal worshippers rejected the old gods. The old gods must create mortals that don't like them and, consequently, new gods that don't like them. Then work with them to create a new world. That's gonna need a lot of smooth talking.


This still needs explanation of where Durkon comes into this. The current world cannot contain the Snarl but a new one created with the Dark One might. That still requires the current world to be undone.

People don't have to have a grudge against something to decide to invest there faith elsewhere. Its an easy shortcut and can sort of happen because of pack mentality but people don't have to think a philosophy is terrible to decide its not for them and come up with their own. What they need is a group of mortals encourages to invest their faith in fellow mortals instead of the gods and think for themselves.
They could also try to reconstruct green and encourage their people to follow the path of green as well.

[faustin]

If mortals are made of three colours, and gods have only one, shouldn't the former be more real and powerful than the later?

[KorvinStarmast]

Thor doesn't strike me as a philosopher or a strategist, so I'm wondering if he's following someone else's plan. I'd guess Odin, but I'd also guess that underestimating Thor is a mistake.
Because Dark One is a new deity he might not know that his unique essence is a powerful bartering point. Given the animosity between him and the other gods, it's reasonable that his knowledge of divine chromodynamics is incomplete. I love that new technical term. Three free doughnuts to you! :smallsmile:
Also, does this mean the planet in the rift is OOTS-world? If we assume quiddities are analogous to spatial dimensions, the Snarl is essentially a being that exists in 4-dimensions, the Gates aren't so much keeping it in as they're keeping it out? (I'll concede this line of thinking is probably over-analyzing, but I kinda like it. I think the story flatland might be an influence here.

The only downside is that it involves killing Redcloak :P Uh, how is this a downside? Someone else will take up the crimson mantle. Someone always has.

[Keltest]

If mortals are made of three colours, and gods have only one, shouldn't the former be more real and powerful than the later?

They are, in as much as if you had a one-color being on the scale of mortals, the three-color mortals would have an inherent advantage.

[Jasdoif]

If mortals are made of three colours, and gods have only one, shouldn't the former be more real and powerful than the later?Thor just said they are more real. As for more powerful...why? It's not like all mortals are equally powerful, so clearly there's more to it than just color composition.

[Rrmcklin]

If mortals are made of three colours, and gods have only one, shouldn't the former be more real and powerful than the later?

Thor said they are more "real", but there's more to power than just that.

[MartianInvader]

If mortals are made of three colours, and gods have only one, shouldn't the former be more real and powerful than the later?
When it comes to the Snarl, they ARE more powerful. Way back when Shojo is telling the first story of the Snarl (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html) he mentions the theory that the Gods are more vulernable to it than a mortal of the same level would be.

[Lord Raziere]

Okay. mind blown. Cool.

So, the Snarl is more real than everyone, and we need The DARK ONE'S help to stop it. The very being that is trying to use it for his own gain.

which means finding Redcloak and convincing him to stop this madness. Redcloak is now someone that needs to stay alive, because if he can't help convince the Dark One to help fix this, who can? This is going to be a real interesting revelation for everyone.

and Xykon will be the biggest obstacle to it going through. Chaotic Evil snark machine lich won't care about fixing the world, he'll be too angry that he was lied to and that all his efforts were for naught to care about that.

I think its clear how things will end, now its just a matter of how it happens.

[JumboWheat01]

So how long 'till we get to the crayola mega-box of colors?

[Anarion]

Fascinating. This raises so many questions. How long a world can even be around for a being to ascend to divinity and why that happened with the Dark One in this case. And why he got a different color while the elves did not. I wonder if it's related to geography, if the Dark One ascended in the East or some central area not covered by any of the major pantheons. Or if it's because of his nature of being "dark."

[Sniccups]

Now THAT's a revelation!

Man, this turns the whole comic upside-down.

Actually, 1139 turned it upside down, and this flips it back right side up.

That’s how I felt, at least.

[Shatbat]

This is worth finally creating an account here
I personally root for the Dark One and the goblin race, and therefore Redcloak, more than for anyone else in this comic, literally anyone else, Roy included (although I really like Roy)
So yessss!!! Let's see what will happen npw

[Fish]

...so is the IFCC a pantheon?

[Ironsmith]

Hold up; if the Dark One was multi-colored in life (he'd have to be, as a mortal), then how is he not only just a singular color post-ascension, but one completely unique from the other gods? Sense made is not.

[Kish]

...so is the IFCC a pantheon?
They're archfiends, not gods, so no.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

...so is the IFCC a pantheon?

That is strange considering they are archdevil, archdaemon, and archfiend but two of them have magical auras similar to the gods with orange and purple. Does this have an explanation, Giant? Do the demons come with to the next world?

[Lathund]

Actually, 1139 turned it upside down, and this flips it back right side up.

That’s how I felt, at least.

Yeah, 1139 was quite a shocker too. Man, I'm loving it all.

[DeliaP]

As an optician it’s more that our eyes see in 4 colours - red/green and blue/yellow which is how the Union Jack aftereffect illusion works
So purple is stimulating blue with some red
Yep, with the Yellow-Blue Axis representing North-South and Red-Green Axis representing East-West. I suspect the opponent process colour theory is part of the Giant's thinking:I believe he once said the reason Zzdritti was green coloured was because there was a background idead if opposed magics and green was opposed to red, Vaarsuvius' colour.

Although it's interesting that on the RGB colour wheel Green (the lost colour) is opposed by Purple (the new colour)

Crazy idea: TDO is ALREADY on board with Thor.... the Ritual is actually part of their plan to contain the Snarl (unbeknown even to Redcloak) only this stupid bunch of heroes keeps interrupting it and blowing up the gates....

[Potatomade]

My personal theory: The Dark One is all in for working with the rest of the gods, but Redcloak, for flawed personal reasons, sticks to the old plan. I imagine he is more committed to The Plan than the end goal at this point (considering the things he's done in furtherance of this specific plan). So Redcloak remains a villain and dies for it, and the actual savior of the goblinoid race becomes Jirix or somebody else.

[Jasdoif]

That is strange considering they are archdevil, archdaemon, and archfiend but two of them have magical auras similar to the gods with orange and purple. Does this have an explanation, Giant?While-using-magic spellcasting auras are not the same as always-on divine auras. And the color of spellcasting auras comes down to personal preference:

Every spellcaster has their own color; it is not based on their alignment or type of magic or anything. It is mostly a matter of choice or personality, though most clerics tend to clump into the same general color if they worship the same gods because they tend to choose the same colors and/or have similar personalities.

Elan has a similar color to the Azurite priests because it's not as if everyone in the North sits around going, "Gosh, we can't pick blue, because those people on another continent all picked blue!" Tsukiko uses the same color for her divine magic as the Azurite priests because they both worship the Twelve Gods, who are worshipped as a pantheon by all alignments in Azure City.

[Flying Turtle]

It is made of starmetal. Perhaps that star metal source, the rock Roy took from the Dragon's cave, fell to OoTS world from a star that had been created back before the snarl ate the Eastern Pantheon.

It's a reach, sure, but stars are old.

That would make the Order (red-yellow-blue) plus the Dark one (purple?) PLUS the green of Eastern pantheon (a vestige in the star metal in the sword) a total of five colors, and thus (based on Thor's other points) stronger than the Snarl with four colors

We'll see.

I like the "real honest-to-us independent mortals like you" line. Also like Minrah's mutt analogy.

OOOOHHHH! New favorite theory!

[LostLight]

No, they have black as their magical aura. The way to tell the difference is that a magical aura is only visible when magic is being cast. A divine aura on the other hand is 'always on' and seemingly has no way to turn off.

TLDR: Magical auras =/= Divine auras

I don't think that is a magical aura- it seems like all fiends, from imps to archfiends, be them demons, daemons or fiends, have black as a "defining colour"- each has an aura of its own, like we see for IFCC, but they always have "black" as the defining (quiddity?) colour, as we see from their speech bubbles. It does not relate to magic, but something which is essential to them being fiends, which hints on it being their "quiddity".

More than that, as black is, in fact, the lack of colour/light, it makes sense that they have no seen aura. Fiends are not divine beings- they are the lack of divinity. They don't radiate psychically charged theosophical particles, they absorb them. They are the negativity for the gods' divinity, so them having black, that is, the lack of colour, as their "quiddity" makes a lot of damn sense, the way I see it. I don't expect it to be talked about in the strips, but for now, those are my two cents on the subject.

[Moran]

Did anybody dun-dun-dunn yet? Because I totally feel like I have to

DUN-DUN-DUNNNNN!!

Me too. :smallbiggrin:

[Gift Jeraff]

No, they have black as their magical aura.

Actually the 5 main fiends all have had distinct magical auras: Black (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0380.html), red (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0559.html), yellow, orange, and purple (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html). Though I still wouldn't put much thought into the speech balloons since various creatures have been shown with differently coloured ones (elementals, elemental outsiders, undead, constructs, dragons, half-dragons, giants, fey, etc.)

[Synesthesy]

But this time there is something different! And maybe Thor will explain what to Durkon...
What can be different?

IMHO, this is the first world where there is a God that is not part of the 3 pantheons club. A God born on a npc race that is working against the wheel of worlds.

Sorry but I need to quote myself :P


I really like how this is going on. I think that the Giant is an excellent writer. Better then lots of AAA best sellers' writers.

I could write a book only saying what I like in this comic :smallwink: Redcloak is my favourite characters, and I love how this is going on.

[wzeller]

I totally saw a new fourth color coming, but I was absolutely CERTAIN it was going to be Banjo.

[Steve L]

This page is already talking about 'all four colors' as if that's as high as we're going to go. I don't buy it.

That was one of my first thoughts as well. Perhaps the significance of The Dark One's new color is not necessarily or solely that he'll join with the other three pantheons to combat the Snarl, but that it reveals that it's possible to add new crayons to the box. What's been done once may be able to be repeated. Would a four-colored alliance of pantheons be able to bring the four-color Snarl to a stalemate? If so, would a five-colored alliance be able to trap or even destroy the four-color Snarl? [Think about Super Sentai or Power Rangers -- attacks from the whole team are often stronger than those from a subset of the team.] Are there any other mortals who may be able to ascend (or have already ascended?) and bring a new color to bear?


If mortals are made of three colours, and gods have only one, shouldn't the former be more real and powerful than the later?

Real, maybe. Powerful, maybe not. Consider the difference between a flashlight that emits white light and a red laser.

[Rrmcklin]

I totally saw a new fourth color coming, but I was absolutely CERTAIN it was going to be Banjo.

Not gonna lie, I cannot fathom why anyone would think that would be a good development for this story.

And that the Dark One's aura is purple (or is it violet?) has been obvious for awhile; we just didn't know that had any actual significance until now.

[Flying Turtle]

I am thrilled to see that the Order may be teaming up with Redcloak. I always thought Roy and Redcloak would actually get along pretty well if Redcloak wasn't absolutely overflowing with hatred for humans. They've got a lot in common. They're both in to planning ahead, you know, when circumstances actually allow either of them to plan ahead. They are both practical to a fault. They both take loud, vocal issue with the way monster races are slaughtered with out a second thought to whether they deserve it. Can't you just see them commiserating over the way their teammates are constantly throwing wrenches into every situation they find themselves in?

[Eadee]

I'm very happy that the Giant did indeed show us why this world is different from all the others before. And that the whole Scene did not make everything pointless in the big picture just to show off how powerful the Snarl is.

Also, I'm really looking forward on the fight/team-up with Redcloak.

[Riarra]

I am thrilled to see that the Order may be teaming up with Redcloak. I always thought Roy and Redcloak would actually get along pretty well if Redcloak wasn't absolutely overflowing with hatred for humans. They've got a lot in common. They're both in to planning ahead, you know, when circumstances actually allow either of them to plan ahead. They are both practical to a fault. They both take loud, vocal issue with the way monster races are slaughtered with out a second thought to whether they deserve it. Can't you just see them commiserating over the way their teammates are constantly throwing wrenches into every situation they find themselves in?

Roy and Redcloak interacting is probably the thing I want the most from this comic.

[LordSith]

So the first world made of 4 pantheons oddities was lost to the snarl and have no gods except the snarl.

It does ring a bell.

I don't see how Thor will go the "we want to destroy the world after having the agreement of the Dark One". That's anticlimatic (? do not know if such word exist).

At best, use redcloack to give the OoTS time/protection against the snarl while buffing the gates and rendering them invulnerable (by using violet divine magic in them). That's my idea.

[Synesthesy]

Actually Redcloak and Roy have a lot more in common: their worst enemy is the same!

[Thecommander236]

A pantheon of one...

Huh. So does that mean the elven and/or western gods inadvertently blew their chance with they combined the pantheons for the elves? Or are the elven gods actually a 5th color set that we just haven't seen yet?

Persumably they were raised up as Western gods from the beginning since they worshipped the western gods. Since the goblins didn't worship any gods, The Dark One didn't merge into an older Pantheon.

[Lamora]

I have noticed another thing that might just be a coincidence but what if it isn't. This might sound strange, but bear with me:

The letter W doesn't really exist. Your brain invented it. Your ears only hear the sound of it by tricking itself into it by combining many u sounds. If you look into the Latin alphabet you will find all sorts of letters there, like V, but no W.

Why am I mentioning this? Well, you can't say "The Dark One" without a w sound. In fact, it almost sounds like "the dark won". And what book was The Dark One first introduced in? Start of darkness, in which the bad guys win. And here's the best part: the w sound is hiding in the name "The Dark One", you can't see it, but it's still there. Just like the Dark One is the solution to the Snarl that has been there all along, in plain sight.

I love it when writers do things like this.

[Lord_Drayakir]

{Scrubbed}

[TRH]

Actually, let's back up here. We're thinking of the Dark One's color as an asset in remaking the world. But Thor just brought his presence up as an argument against simply giving up on this world and remaking it. So he's got something else in mind for what TDO can offer. Just as well, since they haven't really resolved the issue of destroying the current world empowering Hel.

[Elenna]

...Oh.

......Ooooohhhh.

Well that explains some things. Specifically Thor's hope for this world, but also back when Shojo said the gods were more weak to the Snarl than mortals.

Also, "honest-to-us" made me giggle :smallbiggrin:

[MReav]

I'm curious to know if the gods had ever sent expeditions to find other pantheons.

Maybe bring in Horus, Olorun, Quetzalcoatl, Rangi and Papa, Torngasoak, Ahura Mazda, Vishnu, and all their buddies.

Unlikely of course.

Though I'm imagining this,

Thor: Father Odin, why don't we go find other pantheons to help?

Odin: What exactly are we going to tell them? 'Hey guys, we need some new gods to help contain a god-killing abomination that we inadvertently created. You'll have to obey our arbitrary rules so we don't accidentally create a second one.' I'm not exactly looking forward to explaining to Jupiter that we got Zeus killed.

[Luccan]

Wait, if the Dark One is new, how does that work? Does it just exist because the goblins needed a representative badly enough?

[Deffers]

It's worth noting, for those that don't know, that Color Theory can refer both to artistic color theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_theory) and to Quantum Chromodynamics, or QCD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_chromodynamics)-- the other color theory. The strip's title is a play on both-- as is clear from T-dawg talking about singularities and particle emissions. Some people picked up on it but I thought someone should point it out explicitly for the benefits of those that don't have the actual background necessary.