Debating makes changes to sunless citidel, want feedback [MAJOR SPOILERS FOR TFTYP]

[Rfkannen]

Alright so I was thinking about running Sunless citadel from tales from the yawning portal, but am debating making some changes to it that I want some feedback on.

First is to do with setting, which is that the setting I'm running is a sword and sorcery style one, the basic idea of it is conan crossed with dracula and a bit of over the garden wall. Magic is actually pretty common, but looked upon negatively by society and most casters the players meet will be insane and evil, and it doesn't have to many low powered permanent magic items (most items are more powerful and inherently evil or sentient) So I am debating replacing all the magic items, (shatterspike, wand of entangle, nightcaller) with potions of 1 rarity higher. This is actually the first game i'm running in this setting, and if you think this is a bad idea, I can change it.

From the same thought line, I am not sure what to do with the gnome cleric. My thought are either to make him a cleric of an evil god or make him not a cleric. Any thoughts on this?

It bothers me that the entire time you keep seeing dragon related stuff in the dungeon, but then the bad guy has absolutely nothing to do with all the dragons. And that there is no explanation for where the white dragon baby came from. My idea is that at the bottom of the dungeon was the grave of an ancient white dragon, and a tree grew from the grave, this being the gulthias tree (aka replace the vampire with a dragon). The goblins tasked with feeding and taking care of the tree, found the egg in it's roots, and hid it from the druid, kobolds later stole it from the goblins. Not completely certain about this backstory yet, and im not sure what else would need to be changed to make it make sense. Any ideas for this would be greatly appreciated!

Continuing with the last point, making it so that the trapped dragon priest didn't turn himself into a troll, but rather bound himself to the tree the same way the druid did to the two adventurers, and it corrupted him into his current bestial state.

And that is what I am thinking. What do you think?

[Falcon X]

I like it. Sounds a good.

A few separate ideas that ran through my head to ponder:
- The original Sunless Citadel in 3.5 was designed as foreshadowing for the Lvl 18-20 adventure "Bastion of Broken Souls" in which they travel to the Positive Energy Plane to defeat Aschardelon, the owner of the Sunless Citadel. You might consider converting this as a later part of your campaign (along with Heart of Nightfang Spire).
- The bottom floor could actually the fossilized remains of an ancient dragon. The players should notice the ribcage-like patters to the walls. Perhaps after the boss they find a secret exit and walk outside the dragon's mouth.
- Back in 3.5, the Dragon Magic book had a race called Stonehunter Gnomes which were blooded with Copper Dragons. This gnome type can be replicated by removing Gnome Cunning and adding expertise in Athletics and Survival due to the Stonehunter's lack of interest in magic, but love of hunting.
- Belak is given as a twisted Druid, not a cleric. This makes perfect sense for the botany focus he has. However, he could be A. A warlock gaining power from Aschardelon based on this (http://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/disciple-of-ashardalon/index.html). B. Be a Cleric/Druid of Falazure or Tiamat.
- It's been a while since I read Sunless Citadel, but I remember it giving a LOT of magical stuff compared to other adventures of it's level. You are welcome to make them even better if you think it would be fun, but know that it is not necessary.
[edit] Looks like about 12 spell scrolls, a number of magic potions, and 2 permanent magical items. This is, indeed, plenty, though is most useful for your wizard. You might consider switching one of the scroll sets with a +1 weapon or armor so your non-magical people don't feel left out.

[Rfkannen]

I like it. Sounds a good.

A few separate ideas that ran through my head to ponder:
- The original Sunless Citadel in 3.5 was designed as foreshadowing for the Lvl 18-20 adventure "Bastion of Broken Souls" in which they travel to the Positive Energy Plane to defeat Aschardelon, the owner of the Sunless Citadel. You might consider converting this as a later part of your campaign (along with Heart of Nightfang Spire).
- The bottom floor could actually the fossilized remains of an ancient dragon. The players should notice the ribcage-like patters to the walls. Perhaps after the boss they find a secret exit and walk outside the dragon's mouth.
- Back in 3.5, the Dragon Magic book had a race called Stonehunter Gnomes which were blooded with Copper Dragons. This gnome type can be replicated by removing Gnome Cunning and adding expertise in Athletics and Survival due to the Stonehunter's lack of interest in magic, but love of hunting.
- Belak is given as a twisted Druid, not a cleric. This makes perfect sense for the botany focus he has. However, he could be A. A warlock gaining power from Aschardelon based on this (http://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/disciple-of-ashardalon/index.html). B. Be a Cleric/Druid of Falazure or Tiamat.
- It's been a while since I read Sunless Citadel, but I remember it giving a LOT of magical stuff compared to other adventures of it's level. You are welcome to make them even better if you think it would be fun, but know that it is not necessary.
[edit] Looks like about 12 spell scrolls, a number of magic potions, and 2 permanent magical items. This is, indeed, plenty, though is most useful for your wizard. You might consider switching one of the scroll sets with a +1 weapon or armor so your non-magical people don't feel left out.

Ooo I love the idea of the whole bottom layer being the fossileized remains, that sounds like a ton of fun! I didn't know about that adventure, I'll check it out! The cleric I meant is a pretty minor character but isn't belak, his name is Erky Timbers and is an allied character. Yeah I am not sure what to do with all that magical loot, personally I would rather just get rid of it (I prefer to wait until mid levels until finding magic items) but the adventure seems balanced around them, and also players do find them fun sometimes. If I do keep them switching one out with armor seems like a good idea!

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Alright so I was thinking about running Sunless citadel from tales from the yawning portal, but am debating making some changes to it that I want some feedback on.

First is to do with setting, which is that the setting I'm running is a sword and sorcery style one, the basic idea of it is conan crossed with dracula and a bit of over the garden wall. Magic is actually pretty common, but looked upon negatively by society and most casters the players meet will be insane and evil, and it doesn't have to many low powered permanent magic items (most items are more powerful and inherently evil or sentient) So I am debating replacing all the magic items, (shatterspike, wand of entangle, nightcaller) with potions of 1 rarity higher. This is actually the first game i'm running in this setting, and if you think this is a bad idea, I can change it.

From the same thought line, I am not sure what to do with the gnome cleric. My thought are either to make him a cleric of an evil god or make him not a cleric. Any thoughts on this?

It bothers me that the entire time you keep seeing dragon related stuff in the dungeon, but then the bad guy has absolutely nothing to do with all the dragons. And that there is no explanation for where the white dragon baby came from. My idea is that at the bottom of the dungeon was the grave of an ancient white dragon, and a tree grew from the grave, this being the gulthias tree (aka replace the vampire with a dragon). The goblins tasked with feeding and taking care of the tree, found the egg in it's roots, and hid it from the druid, kobolds later stole it from the goblins. Not completely certain about this backstory yet, and im not sure what else would need to be changed to make it make sense. Any ideas for this would be greatly appreciated!

Continuing with the last point, making it so that the trapped dragon priest didn't turn himself into a troll, but rather bound himself to the tree the same way the druid did to the two adventurers, and it corrupted him into his current bestial state.

And that is what I am thinking. What do you think?



The dragon stuff is pretty cool but could use a future tie in like is said.

Have a mama dragon show up and ask the PC's a few questions several levels later.

FWIW, I love shatterspike and was ok with the gulthias tree thing. Some of the rest are quite forgettable.

Oh, and my party started thinking Sharwyn was an elf so I rolled with it. Didn't seem important since they killed her. Then they paid to have her reincarnated. Oops, she came back 1/2 orc. In the background her family emptied their accounts having her reincarnated until she came back as an elf again. Only thing was she had to make a deal with a devil to do so and actually came back as a Warlock multi class of sorts with a task to perform for her patron, opening a portal to allow 3 high level demons out!

I gave her stat block to a player who's character died and she helped kill the demons, after all, the contract didn't say she had to treat them nicely, just release them with this book she sent the PC's to get.

[Galithar]

I just finished running this adventure for my group and I highly recommend using the strong Draconic themes to tie into future adventuring.
I heavily Homebrewed the adventure to create a recurring potential Ally (by replacing the Dragon with one of my own Homebrew design) as well as creating a tie to my campaigns Central theme by changing the origin of the Tree from a stake from a killed vampire into a crystal that is part of a key to opening a portal to the shadowfell. (Details left sparse because my setting is fully Homebrewed and most of it wouldn't make sense unless I explained all of it lol)

[ImproperJustice]

Could the Gnome be either:

A healer, trained in herbalism, first aid and salves. Maybe using the healer feat in my lace of magic?

An actual Priest. Hey they exist, and they don’t have to have magical powers. At least not ones that are openly obvious.
He could aid in negotiations, provide the occasional inspiration die, or equivalent of the guidance cantrip.
Could still consider granting a turn dead ability or just get a reputation bump for getting him out alive.
Heck, maybe in the showdown with the Druid, he can perform a ritual (requires protection) that impedes the Druid’s casting or his minions in some fashion. Or he has a means of exorcising his control over the children Gandalf in the two tours style, if you can keep him protected.

[JackPhoenix]

Shatterspike is pretty much +1 adamantine longsword. You can skip the +1 part, or make it non-magical +1 adamantine longsword, justifying the bonus by being really well made.

Nightcaller sounds like it fits into sword and sorcery, or even low-magic campaign. Creating undead fits under the "magic is evil", and if you want to tweak it, you may remove the part where you keep the undead under control... it serves you for 24 hours, then turns against you, which reinforces the theme that this is not a toy. Or, to keep with the theme of the adventure and the druid antagonist, make it create needle blights instead of undead... both have CR 1/4, so there shouldn't be any balance issues.

The wand could be refluffed... how about a pouch of seeds that create Entangle effect when thrown? You may make it straight reskin of the wand, with seeds replenising when the wand's charges would, or give only limited amount of seeds, turning it into consumable.

[Falcon X]

Ooo I love the idea of the whole bottom layer being the fossileized remains, that sounds like a ton of fun! I didn't know about that adventure, I'll check it out! The cleric I meant is a pretty minor character but isn't belak, his name is Erky Timbers and is an allied character. Yeah I am not sure what to do with all that magical loot, personally I would rather just get rid of it (I prefer to wait until mid levels until finding magic items) but the adventure seems balanced around them, and also players do find them fun sometimes. If I do keep them switching one out with armor seems like a good idea!
The magic stuff you find here are mostly expendables like scrolls and potions. They are one time use things that do not permanently change the characters.
The Wand of Entangle and the Whistle Nightcaller are the more permanent magic items here. The wand only has so many charges and it’s only a Level 1 Spell, so the whistle is the only major magical item they get.
Personally, I find the boost of the whistle fine.
However, if you run a low magic game, the flavor of getting all this might be a bit much.

Yeah, Sunless Citadel through Bastion of Brokem Souls was a major adventure series in 3.5.
The only other one that mentioned Aschardelon was Heart of Nightfang Spire (though my memory could be incorrect). Look Bastion up on Wikipedia and it should tell you.