Purple Pantheon Theory

[hobit]

My theory: A new group of purple gods and maybe demigods is rising. I think one or more of the following will be added to the Purple Pantheon by the end of the comic:

Xykon
The Monster in the Darkness
Redcloak
The OotS themselves (probably all)
Banjo (as a demigod?)


I just don't think a single purple god is going to work out from a story viewpoint (and maybe from a political one).

[Rrmcklin]

I mean, the Dark One has been around for centuries. Clearly it's been "working out". And you can't just raise up a bunch of new gods willy nilly.

And any of those characters you mentioned somehow becoming gods, let alone in the same pantheon as the Dark One just sounds....

[Peelee]

I just don't think a single purple god is going to work out from a story viewpoint (and maybe from a political one).
Nope.

I make no comment on the substance of the arguments here, but I just wanted to chime in and say that it was my intent to imply that in the crayon pages of Start of Darkness, the other gods were capable of unilaterally killing The Dark One only because he was newly ascended.

He had used up all of his "worshipper juice" becoming a god, leaving him somewhat weak and with no experience using divine powers. After some of the other gods broke ranks to defend him, he took control of the goblinoids and established regular worship among them. So he's been building his power for a few centuries since then, and unlike other gods, he doesn't have to share his species' worship with several competing deities.

Basically, that was their only shot to just gang up and kill him out of hand.

In any event, why would any of those characters sans Redcloak be in TDO's Pantheon? Who would worship any of them enough for edification?

[hroþila]

The only one of those I could possibly imagine ascending is Redcloak, and I don't see how that could happen in the expected time frame.

[Darth Paul]

TDO is a pantheon of one (despite the linguistic contradictions).

I foresee Durkon returning on a mission to convince Redcloak to get his god to throw his weight in with the rest of the pantheons and Snarl-proof the existing world, rather than trying to use the Snarl against them. In return for- who knows. A New Deal for the monster races, probably.

This, of course, would mean turning on Xykon and bring about the final confrontations of Book 7- the Order against Xykon, Xykon against Redcloak, Gods vs the Snarl, and who knows what all.

But for ultimate satisfaction, it still must end with Roy vs Xykon in the rematch of the century.

[Potatomade]

For me, I just don't buy Redcloak going along with Durkon's/Thor's thing at all. He's been committed to this plan from the very outset, and considering all of the atrocities he's committed in furtherance of it, I doubt he'll shift gears quickly. I wouldn't even be that surprised if he straight up disobeys The Dark One and keeps working with Xykon. In my opinion the most satisfying ending for Redcloak would be his own god turning on him because he was so sunk into his sunk cost fallacy.

Giggles, on the other hand, already has a group of worshippers who are not tied to any other pantheon. I can't help but think that Elan's happy ending somehow involves his hand puppets becoming gods. Especially since that means The Dark One would wind up brushing shoulders with friggin' puppets.

[Linneris]

I can't help but think that Elan's happy ending somehow involves his hand puppets becoming gods. Especially since that means The Dark One would wind up brushing shoulders with friggin' puppets.

I think it would be damaging to the story, since part of Elan's character growth that led to him saving the Order from Girard's illusion was realizing that his childish desires were not worth actually coming true. I think Elan's real happy ending, whatever it is, will be somewhat more mature (though probably still uniquely Elanish).

Also, they don't need Redcloak to cooperate — they only need a cooperative high priest of the Dark One. If Redcloak proves too far gone, this role may well pass to someone more reasonable, such as Jirix or the former supreme leader of the hobgoblins, the one Redcloak deposed.

[Elanasaurus]

the former supreme leader of the hobgoblins, the one Redcloak deposedRedcloak deposed another supreme leader besides this guy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html)? What a meanie.
:elan:

[Kish]

No, That Guy is in fact the supreme leader under discussion.

[Darth Paul]

For me, I just don't buy Redcloak going along with Durkon's/Thor's thing at all. He's been committed to this plan from the very outset, and considering all of the atrocities he's committed in furtherance of it, I doubt he'll shift gears quickly.

I never said it would be easy or quick. In fact it may not happen. But it would be a central conflict. And if Thor could just talk to The Dark One, he would have already. That's why I see the need for priest-to-priest level interaction- Durkon to Redcloak. And it's a classic fictional trope that enemies find a common goal and are forced to work together.

I can't see Jirix coming back to the story though. For one thing, he's far behind in Azure City, and the current action is near the North Pole. Whatever happens, is going to happen at Kragor's Rift and nowhere else.

[Rrmcklin]

I'll point out that Thor has mentioned needing Durkon to fight a battle for him. That could just be metaphorical, but somehow I don't think "convince Redcloak to talk to the Dark One about this" is going to be where this is headed. At least, it probably isn't all this is heading towards.

[Elystan]

MITD is the Dark One

[Mad Humanist]

I'll point out that Thor has mentioned needing Durkon to fight a battle for him. That could just be metaphorical, but somehow I don't think "convince Redcloak to talk to the Dark One about this" is going to be where this is headed. At least, it probably isn't all this is heading towards.

I think it could be. If Thor tried to visit the Dark One it might just lead to a battle, which Thor wants to avoid. And Durkon talking to Redcloak won't be easy either. Xykon will probably have to be killed first which won't put Redcloak in a good mood. Maybe Durkon can try Sending but that is unlikely to go well. It seems a plausible plot development precisely because it is difficult and involves the main characters.

I suspect Thor's plan is to work together on enhanced gates that actually hurt the Snarl when it touches them in return for treating goblins as PC species.

[CJG]

No, That Guy is in fact the supreme leader under discussion. that’s totes Jirix.

[Elanasaurus]

Really? Interesting. How can you tell?
:elan:

[Goblin_Priest]

TDO is a pantheon of one (despite the linguistic contradictions).

I foresee Durkon returning on a mission to convince Redcloak to get his god to throw his weight in with the rest of the pantheons and Snarl-proof the existing world, rather than trying to use the Snarl against them. In return for- who knows. A New Deal for the monster races, probably.

This, of course, would mean turning on Xykon and bring about the final confrontations of Book 7- the Order against Xykon, Xykon against Redcloak, Gods vs the Snarl, and who knows what all.

But for ultimate satisfaction, it still must end with Roy vs Xykon in the rematch of the century.

Yea, nobody's joining that pantheon.

[martianmister]

Xykon

Nope. :smallyuk:

[KorvinStarmast]

Giggles, on the other hand, already has a group of worshippers who are not tied to any other pantheon. I can't help but think that Elan's happy ending somehow involves his hand puppets becoming gods. Especially since that means The Dark One would wind up brushing shoulders with friggin' puppets. For comedic effect, I like Giggles ascending. (Or Giggles' high priest ascending). But for story structure, not so much.

[KorvinStarmast]

And if Thor could just talk to The Dark One, he would have already. That's why I see the need for priest-to-priest level interaction- Durkon to Redcloak. And it's a classic fictional trope that enemies find a common goal and are forced to work together. not just in fiction. :smallwink:
MITD is the Dark One Nope. Both Redcloak and Oona have shown that they know what MiTD is, in comic. Were what you say true, their reactions would be considerably different.

[Linneris]

that’s totes Jirix.

This is off topic, but this theory has been voiced on the forum, and truth be told, I could see Rich doing that.

And it would make things interesting for Hinjo and O-Chul if they were to recognize him.

[SlashDash]

For me, I just don't buy Redcloak going along with Durkon's/Thor's thing at all. He's been committed to this plan from the very outset, and considering all of the atrocities he's committed in furtherance of it, I doubt he'll shift gears quickly.

This is actually in contradiction to what we see Redcloak do in the comics.

After Azure city falls, Redcloak doesn't rush to the next gate. In fact, he clearly states that he is deliberately lying to Xykon just to stall for time and setup up Gobtoppia.

Clearly he thinks about the welfare of the goblinoids even at the cost of letting OotS or Hinjo or other wild cards get to the next gates and set up even more defenses.

In fact, Red Cloak's revelation during the battle about how he is mistreating the hobgoblins shows that he understands what's at stakes.

He was willing to face a cleric in single combat - which might cause him to lose the crimson mantle and the entire plan be utterly ruined - just to save more goblinoid lives.


So if someone offers him a deal where Goblins are equal to all other races - he essentially gets exactly what he wants. That is what the plan is about.

It's extremely likely that if anyone actually offers him a decent peace treaty that he would believe (and that's the big issue here...) that he might take it.

And I have a feeling, that while Durkon will be the one to set things in motion, my money on anyone selling it to Red Cloak is O-Chul.




I wouldn't even be that surprised if he straight up disobeys The Dark One and keeps working with Xykon. In my opinion the most satisfying ending for Redcloak would be his own god turning on him because he was so sunk into his sunk cost fallacy.

Seriously?!? We already saw Red Cloak plotting against Xykon multiple times. Did you miss the whole thing with him switching the holy symbols and explaining to Tuskiko that he completely lies to Xykon about what the ritual does?

It sure as heck foreshadowed that Red cloak is going to turn on Xykon. So who is he going to betray him for if not for the OotS?


This is off topic, but this theory has been voiced on the forum, and truth be told, I could see Rich doing that.

And it would make things interesting for Hinjo and O-Chul if they were to recognize him.
But O-Chul and Jirix did meet each other. O-Chul was the one who killed him when he escaped the cage when Darth-V attacked.

[Linneris]

But O-Chul and Jirix did meet each other. O-Chul was the one who killed him when he escaped the cage when Darth-V attacked.

Ah, that shoots down the theory, then. Ah well!

[Sorator]

And I have a feeling, that while Durkon will be the one to set things in motion, my money on anyone selling it to Red Cloak is O-Chul.

Ooh. That's the first prediction I've seen in a while that really rings true to me.

[LadyEowyn]

Ooh. That's the first prediction I've seen in a while that really rings true to me.

Given the events of How the Paladin Got His Scar, I would agree. I think, though, that it will take O-Chul himself some time to come around to the idea - after all, Redcloak did conquer his city, enslave its citizens, and spend several months torturing him.

And I think O-Chul is already aware, or at least suspects, that Redcloak's village was destroyed by the Sapphire Guard: Redcloak has a tendency to rant about it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html) when confronted by paladins (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0480.html), and O-Chul spent a long time as his captive.

[Cinevei]

Allow me to combine two theories in this thread: O-Chul will convince the Dark One to cooperate, which earns him a place in the purple Pantheon in the eyes of humans and TDO himself :smalltongue:

[hobit]

Allow me to combine two theories in this thread: O-Chul will convince the Dark One to cooperate, which earns him a place in the purple Pantheon in the eyes of humans and TDO himself :smalltongue:

I like it.

[Dr.Zero]

Also, they don't need Redcloak to cooperate — they only need a cooperative high priest of the Dark One. If Redcloak proves too far gone, this role may well pass to someone more reasonable, such as Jirix or the former supreme leader of the hobgoblins, the one Redcloak deposed.

Didn't Thor say that they need a 9th level spell?
I think neither Jirix nor TFSL qualify.

[Linneris]

Didn't Thor say that they need a 9th level spell?
I think neither Jirix nor TFSL qualify.

Most likely - but this discussion took place before the need for a 9th level spell was revealed.

[Dr.Zero]

Most likely - but this discussion took place before the need for a 9th level spell was revealed.

Ah, my bad. I didn't think to check the date, sorry! :smallredface:

[Draconi Redfir]

i could see Redcloak joining the pantheon.

He's powerful
He's well-known
A lot of souls (Gobbotopia) revere him as Surpreme leader
He's done great* things
He's in good standing with the Dark One so far
He's a Goblin, and it's a Goblin pantheon.
Known by all three Goblin types. Lead Goblins in the first book, Lead Hobgoblins until recently, and currently working on relations with bugbears.


*Great as in might or inpactful, not necessarily "Good"

i dunno if it WILL happen, but i wouldn't be surprised it it did.