Monk the green iron fist

[Whit]

Is it worth it to go monk and get green flame blade by magic initiate or a multi class. And would it be worth it?

At lvl. 5 green flame blade your fist for a 1d8 flame attack and 1d8+Int modifier to another enemy within 5 feet.

[JackPhoenix]

Fist is not a weapon, so you can't use it with GFB and BB. You can use it with monk weapons, but then you're casting a spell instead of taking Attack action, so you won't trigger Extra Attack and Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows bonus action attacks.

Not worth it.

[ImproperJustice]

However, if you are trying to create an awesome iron fist, see if you can sweet talk your GM into letting you be a Paladin and smite punch people, and/or channel divinity as a devotion Paladin into your fist.

Honestly, a Monk’s fists should be considered weapons.

[Whit]

Unarmed strike is listed under the weapons table so unless it was written somewhere else it is considered a weapon

And since cantrip that works in conjunction with a weapon, where does it say it prevents other attacks. Although I do understand it only works for the first attack

[Millstone85]

Unarmed strike is listed under the weapons table so unless it was written somewhere else it is considered a weaponThis has been errata'd.


Weapons (p. 149). Unarmed strike doesn’t belong on the Weapons table.

[Unoriginal]

Unarmed strike is listed under the weapons table so unless it was written somewhere else it is considered a weapon

As said above, it was errat'd.



And since cantrip that works in conjunction with a weapon, where does it say it prevents other attacks. Although I do understand it only works for the first attack

Casting a spell is an action, Extra attacks only happen if you use the Attack action.

[Seekergeek]

You could go battle master fighter and just fluff your superiority die damage as the iron fist. Pushing attack, tripping attack and maybe disarming strike would all be pretty appropriate.

[ImproperJustice]

Clearly the Devs have not seen any of the following:

IP Man
Anything by Bruce Lee
Anything with Jackie Chan
Anything with Jet Li

Or a drunken brawl.
Bare hands have plenty of killing power. I cannot fathom an explanation on why anything that boosts an attack in a fantasy world can’t be applied to a fist.

RAW or not.

[JackPhoenix]

Clearly the Devs have not seen any of the following:

IP Man
Anything by Bruce Lee
Anything with Jackie Chan
Anything with Jet Li

Or a drunken brawl.
Bare hands have plenty of killing power. I cannot fathom an explanation on why anything that boosts an attack in a fantasy world can’t be applied to a fist.

RAW or not.

They did, because monk's bare hands (and legs, and heads, and any other body parts) eventually have the same killing power as halberds or swords wielded in both hands. Even non-monks can get dagger-equivalent damage out of unarmed attacks with Tavern Brawler. Lot of things that applies to attacks can be used with bare hands, Divine Smite for example. They are, however, not weapons, so things that require you to use a weapon don't apply.

[Vogie]

The easiest way to be the Iron Fist using AL rules is to Refluff a simple weapon (such as club) as an unarmed strike. If someone wants to get tricksy and then try to disarm you as a recurring tactic, use 3 levels in EK Fighter to be un-disarm-able via the Weapon Bond feature.

Other ways to get the concept with a more lenient DM:

Un-Errata "Unarmed strike is a weapon" back into the game
Create a Gauntlet or glove that acts as a weapon


Then the Iron Fist strikes could be conveyed as:

Paladin Smites
BB/GFB by Bladesingers, ATs, or EKs
Divine Strikes from Zealot Barbarians
Using MI or a 1 level Arcana cleric dip to get BB/GFB on a monk.


Note that you'll still run into the "one strong strike" paradigm by using BB/GFB. The only character that can get around that (that I can think of) is a 7+ level EK fighter, using War Magic to do a BB/GFB attack, then a bonus action attack.


Actually a TWF EK fighter with Mage Armor (to look like they're unarmored) and dual wielding finesse weapons (refluffed as unarmed strikes) could fit that original bill... sadly there aren't any finesse bludgeoning weapons (which seems like an oversight). You wouldn't get the scaling a monk would, though.

[sophontteks]

Maybe I'm not understanding something but...

Green blade is not an attack, so the monk is losing all of his extra attacks when he uses it, but because he can attack with a monk weapon, there is nothing stopping him from using green blade...for a single attack.

But losing all those extra attacks is totally not worth it.

[Zonugal]

I think if you want to add some magical tools to a monk, you can certainly make something work.

I'd recommend dipping one level of 'Arcana' Cleric so you can get two Wizard cantrips keyed off of wisdom (and save your feats for attribute boosts).

For attacks with these spells you can either try to flavor clubs as gauntlets, or simply carry a weapon with you into combat but only use it for spellcasting (nunchuks & war-fans come to mind as options).

For spells I'd actually recommend not grabbing Green Flame-Blade. While its nice it only offers you fire damage, and your standard attack array will likely out-damage any of these spells. Instead you should look to cantrips with riders/secondary effects.

Booming Blade locks down enemies.
Fire Bolt offers a consistent ranged attack.
Lightning Lure provides battlefield control against enemies.
Shocking Grasp can withhold enemy reactions.

And for your usual Cleric cantrips you have classics like Guidance, Mending, & Sacred Flame.

[Garfunion]

Re-fluffing the Way of the Sun Soul with green flames (still radiant damage) would be easier. Pick up the crossbow expert feat would allow you to “turn” the ranged attack into a melee.

Taking 1 level in Druid could help fill in the magic parts. Produce flame cantrip can make you hand look like it is on fire.

[Droodicus]

Haven't got my book handy but does the horizon walker Rangers force damage ability require a weapon

[Unoriginal]

Clearly the Devs have not seen any of the following:

IP Man
Anything by Bruce Lee
Anything with Jackie Chan
Anything with Jet Li

Or a drunken brawl.

Yeah, the developers, who included the Martial Arts bonus attacks, Flurry of Blow, Open Hand Monk, Drunken Master, and the monk's unarmed attacks doing as much damages as weapons obviously never seen those things.



Bare hands have plenty of killing power. I cannot fathom an explanation on why anything that boosts an attack in a fantasy world can’t be applied to a fist.

RAW or not.

Green Flame Blade doesn't boost any attack, it's specifically an attack with a weapon. No matter how deadly an unarmed attack is, it is not a weapon.


Haven't got my book handy but does the horizon walker Rangers force damage ability require a weapon

Nope. It works with unarmed attacks.

[Vogie]

Haven't got my book handy but does the horizon walker Rangers force damage ability require a weapon

Yep.


The next time you hit that creature with a weapon attack, all damage dealt by the attack becomes force damage, and the creature takes an extra 1d8 force damage from the attack.

It also eats your bonus action each time you use it, so you would be using it in lieu of your other monk features.

[Unoriginal]

Yep.



It also eats your bonus action each time you use it, so you would be using it in lieu of your other monk features.

It doesn't require a weapon, it requires a weapon attack. A weapon attack is any attack that isn't a spell attack.

[Desteplo]

Clearly the Devs have not seen any of the following:

IP Man
Anything by Bruce Lee
Anything with Jackie Chan
Anything with Jet Li

Or a drunken brawl.
Bare hands have plenty of killing power. I cannot fathom an explanation on why anything that boosts an attack in a fantasy world can’t be applied to a fist.

RAW or not.
Open hand = done

The other subclasses are less other inspirations

[Malifice]

However, if you are trying to create an awesome iron fist, see if you can sweet talk your GM into letting you be a Paladin and smite punch people, and/or channel divinity as a devotion Paladin into your fist.

Honestly, a Monk’s fists should be considered weapons.

You can smite with an unarmed strike:


Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon Attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon's damage. The extra damage is 2d8 for a 1st-level spell slot, plus 1d8 for each Spell Level higher than 1st, to a maximum of 5d8. The damage increases by 1d8 if the target is an Undead or a fiend.

An unarmed strike is not a 'melee weapon', but when you punch someone you are making a 'melee weapon attack'.

There is no DM permission needed.

[Garfunion]

An unarmed strike is not a 'melee weapon', but when you punch someone you are making a 'melee weapon attack'.

There is no DM permission needed.
No, when you punch someone you are making a melee unarmed attack. Unarmed attacks are not weapons attacks.
Unless a feature or ability says make an attack or make a melee attack, an unarmed attack can not be used with the feature.

[Malifice]

No, when you punch someone you are making a melee unarmed attack. Unarmed attacks are not weapons attacks.
Unless a feature or ability says make an attack or make a melee attack, an unarmed attack can not be used with the feature.

No, you're wrong.

An unarmed strike is a 'melee weapon attack' (despite not being an attack with a melee weapon).

When you attack with a slam, horn, tusk, fist, kick, bite, claw etc these are all 'melee weapon attacks' also. Open your monster manual. Check out every single monster entry.

Attacks come in 4 types:

1) Melee weapon attack
2) Ranged weapon attack
3) Melee spell attack
4) Ranged spell attack.

An attack with an unarmed strike is a 'melee weapon attack'. It qualifies for divine smite (unlike a melee spell attack, or a ranged weapon attack, boh of which dont qualify).

From the errata:


Melee Attacks (p. 195). The rule on unarmed strikes should read as follows: “Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike [to make a melee weapon attack]: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons). On a hit, an unarmed strike deals bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier. You are proficient with your unarmed strikes.”

You dont have to use a melee weapon to make a melee weapon attack; you can use your fist, kick, elbows, head-butt etc to make a melee weapon attack. Your fist isnt a weapon, but you're still making a melee weapon attack.

Paladins can divine smite with a head-butt just fine.

[Unoriginal]

The errata

Melee Attacks (p. 195). The rule on unarmed strikes should read as follows: “Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an un-armed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons). On a hit, an unarmed strike deals bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier. You are proficient with your unarmed strikes.”

With this you can replace a melee weapon attack with an unarmed strike which does not count as a weapon.
The Paladin’s Smite requires a melee weapon attack not an unarmed strike.
You can replace you melee weapon attack with an unarmed strike but you can not replace they requirement for a Paladin’s Smite that says melee weapon attack.

Also monster rule are different from player character rule.

The text you quoted literally said you can do an unarmed strike as a weapon attack instead of using a weapon.

It says "instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an un-armed strike", not "instead of doing a melee weapon attack, you can do an un-armed strike".

Unarmed strikes are weapon attacks. That's why the spells and effects that require a weapon precise "a weapon attack with a weapon". Like Green Flame Blade does.

[Millstone85]

And if you throw a dagger, that is considered a ranged weapon attack with a melee weapon.

This is certainly an annoying aspect of 5e jargon.

[MThurston]

Attack
The most Common action to take in combat is the Attack action, whether you are swinging a sword, firing an arrow from a bow, or brawling with your fists.
With this action, you make one melee or ranged Attack. See the “Making an Attack” section for the rules that govern attacks.

Certain features, such as the Extra Attack feature of the Fighter, allow you to make more than one Attack with this action.


Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon Attack, you can use an Unarmed Strike: a punch, kick, head--butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons). On a hit, an Unarmed Strike deals bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier. You are proficient with your unarmed strikes.