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Erelamar
2018-09-22, 09:09 AM
I need another pair of eyes (or more) on the character creation rules I'm making for my first campaign in four years. My goal is to give a group of Pathfinder, 5e, and older players a chance to stretch their legs with access to the full 3.5 WotC collection once I finalize a ban list in line with the flavor of the campaign setting I've created.

I'd love to hear about any feats or class variants off the top of your head which don't jell with the concept below. I'm starting them at 2nd level, so I can nip prestige classes in the bud later as they come up (though I'd still take any suggestions).


SETTING SUMMARY: The world is old and mysterious and huge; there are no nations. The gods are dead. They died long ago. There may have been other prominent races. If so, mankind killed them off even longer ago. Dragons were never real... probably.

Some humans have strange origins (e.g. born from arcane language, grown in vats, mutated by the lingering radiations of ancient warfare, touched by fiends, etc.). Rumors whisper of a race of face-warpers which hide in society disguised as human. Also, there is a smattering of halflings; that their existence contradicts the above goes oddly unmentioned.

Traditional magic-users abound; they are feared more than respected. The death of the priestly castes has given rise to charlatan cults creating miracles through alchemy and artifice. In the far, shadowy corners of the world, lesser magical traditions claim a foothold. Select peoples are gifted with psychic potential. Dungeon-delving into the numerous ancient ruins is a full-time and perfected profession. Martial combat has evolved through the aeons into an almost mystical art, though simple fighting men, alleyway cutthroats, and honor-bound warriors still persist.

OPEN RACES: Elan (EPH), Changeling (ECS), Halfling, Half-Giant (EPH), Human, Illumian (RD), Mongrolfolk (RD), Tiefling (RD).

OPEN CLASSES: Artificer (ECS), Barbarian, Bard, Binder (TM), Factotum (Du), Fighter, Hexblade (CW), Incarnate (MoI), Knight (PH2), Monk, Psion (XPH), Psychic Warrior (XPH), Rogue, Scout (CAv), Shadowcaster (TM), Sorcerer, Soulborn (MoI), Soulknife (XPH), Swashbuckler (CW), Swordsage (ToB), Totemist (MoI), Truenamer (TM), Warblade (ToB), Wilder (XPH), Wizard.

BANNED MATERIAL: Draconomicon, Dragon Magic, Races of the Dragon, Unearthed Arcana; any supplement printed for 3.0. Also, several feats (practiced spellcaster, etc.), spells (conjuration's orb spells, etc.), class variants (focused specialist, etc.), racial templates (mineral warrior, etc.), and magic items (amber amulet of the vermin, etc.) for balance reasons based on what I remember from playing during the optimization arms race of early 2000s D&D.


As I can be reasonably sure none of the players visit this forum, I can answer anybody's setting specific questions.

Thanks in advance.

Mike Miller
2018-09-22, 09:33 AM
The feats, spells, variants that just say etc. Don't give a clear indication of what you have banned. I understand you don't want divine casters due to the setting, and that is fine if you explain it to the group. Flavor settings can be good, but just make sure you consider the ramifications of what no divine magic entails. Some of the most useful buffs are divine. Some magic items would have to be banned because they have divine spell requirements for creation. Healing spells are divine. I am guessing druids are out just because they cast divine?

Any setup can be good if everyone is on board. Just don't think that you need to ban things for balance. A gentleman's agreement before hand is better than flat banning things. (Flavor bans are different, I just want you to think about it more, because your premise began with flavor but ended with balance)

Erelamar
2018-09-22, 10:16 AM
The feats, spells, variants that just say etc. Don't give a clear indication of what you have banned. I understand you don't want divine casters due to the setting, and that is fine if you explain it to the group. Flavor settings can be good, but just make sure you consider the ramifications of what no divine magic entails. Some of the most useful buffs are divine. Some magic items would have to be banned because they have divine spell requirements for creation. Healing spells are divine. I am guessing druids are out just because they cast divine?

There being artificers allows the presence of divine spell items. Luckily, UMD is going to be important during the campaign beyond just activating a Wand of Lesser Vigor. So for those who invest in the skill, they will be rewarded (which I will mention before character creation). And yeah, there aren't any druids because that was the elves' bag (instead of wizardry) and they don't exist anymore... for the most part.


Any setup can be good if everyone is on board. Just don't think that you need to ban things for balance. A gentleman's agreement before hand is better than flat banning things. (Flavor bans are different, I just want you to think about it more, because your premise began with flavor but ended with balance)

Balance was the wrong word. It's the politically correct terminology I learned from the heyday of 3.5 when we felt a PC was overshadowing the rest. What I meant was broken, or at least in my opinion. For everything in the full list, I've witnessed its over-effectiveness in gameplay.

I only gave examples because it's not really what I wanted to focus on in this thread. I didn't want it to devolve into a debate about what people believe is overpowered.

Mike Miller
2018-09-22, 12:05 PM
It sounds like you know what you are doing then. As for flavor, are you really ok with the artificer handling divine reqs for items? It sounds like a loophole or back door in the logic/flavor of the campaign to allow it.