What is the purpose of Spellcraft for a Cleric?

[Mars Ultor]

I haven't played a Cleric before so I looked around for some guides and they suggest putting all possible skill points into Concentration and Spellcraft. I understand why Concentration is important, but why is Spellcraft such an essential skill? While I can see a few instances where it's helpful for a Cleric, it seems more tailored toward Wizards.

I suspect I'm missing something or misinterpreting what the skill does. Although I've played magic-users in the first two editions of D&D, the only spell caster I've played in 3.5 is a Ranger. It's likely that I don't have enough experience with magic to see the benefit of Spellcraft for a Cleric.

[SLOTHRPG95]

Spellcraft is useful for identifying spells as they're cast, either in case they don't have any immediate visible effect (like most enchantments), or because you want to counterspell them. Other than that, its uses for most Clerics (or other casters) are marginal.

[Kelb_Panthera]

When you're looking at magical auras through detect Magic and Magical effects that are visually obvious spellcraft allows you to identify the Magic in question. It can be very difficult to deal with a problem when you don't know what it is.

[AvatarVecna]

And the usual counter of "but I as the player am familiar enough with the spells of this game to know what's coming" is itself countered by "yeah but the DM could require that you roll successful spellcraft to avoid metagaming, since that's exactly what you're doing." Knowledge skills are similarly use-limited if you as the player already know all the monster statblocks by heart (a bit of an exaggeration for most people, but no doubt you have a good understanding of the capabilities of some more common monsters like dragons), but if the DM wants a roll to prevent metagaming, knowledges can give you more official in-character information.

Plus, in both cases, such knowledge-granting skills are necessary if your DM is throwing curveballs like heavily-metamagick'd or custom spells/effects/monsters.

[Kelb_Panthera]

And the usual counter of "but I as the player am familiar enough with the spells of this game to know what's coming" is itself countered by "yeah but the DM could require that you roll successful spellcraft to avoid metagaming, since that's exactly what you're doing." Knowledge skills are similarly use-limited if you as the player already know all the monster statblocks by heart (a bit of an exaggeration for most people, but no doubt you have a good understanding of the capabilities of some more common monsters like dragons), but if the DM wants a roll to prevent metagaming, knowledges can give you more official in-character information.

Plus, in both cases, such knowledge-granting skills are necessary if your DM is throwing curveballs like heavily-metamagick'd or custom spells/effects/monsters.

This is very true.

Even beyond that, there are several thousand unique spells and several hundred unique creatures before you even look at metamagic or creature templates. Unless the GM insists on sticking to a very limited selection of both, it's extremely unlikely you will never be confronted by something you, as a player, don't know.

[ericgrau]

@^ That plus it's not always obvious from the visual effects even if you do know the spell. Buffs, SoL, etc., etc. It's nice to know if the red dragon cast energy resistance or if it cast scintillating scales. Spellcraft is useful for all classes, to know what a foe is casting. If you're a cleric and you don't have 2-3 other casters in the party with spellcraft, then I'd agree spellcraft is your top choice 2nd to concentration.

Next you have knowledges, which your entire party may also have access to. And unless you have a special ability for it, the info about a foe may or may not be useful. Then that leaves heal and craft (basketweaving). I think heal is underrated at low level, but it does go obsolete quickly. So yeah, there's not that much competition for spellcraft and concentration.

[Zaq]

Magic is the most powerful and influential thing in the game. Knowing what magical effects are around you is important, and a party with the ability to identify magical effects (ideally on the fly) is at an advantage against a party who lacks that capability. Even if you already have another caster with the ability to make Spellcraft checks, it's important enough that it's generally worth letting multiple characters make the attempt to the extent possible.

That said, skill points are precious and it's true that you'll never get everything you want, especially if you have PrCs with obnoxious skill requirements for your pathetic 2 + INT base (and you've probably already got Concentration locked in place). I'm not going to say that a Cleric without Spellcraft is unplayable or anything, because that's not really true. Just remember that a a Cleric is a primary spellcaster, so knowing which of your spells are appropriate for dealing with the spells you come across will make you better at your primary job.

[ericgrau]

That said, skill points are precious and it's true that you'll never get everything you want, especially if you have PrCs with obnoxious skill requirements for your pathetic 2 + INT base (and you've probably already got Concentration locked in place). I'm not going to say that a Cleric without Spellcraft is unplayable or anything, because that's not really true. Just remember that a a Cleric is a primary spellcaster, so knowing which of your spells are appropriate for dealing with the spells you come across will make you better at your primary job.

That's also true, that the best skill choices are the ones you need for your build. And often you can sacrifice even "top" skills for that, because skills do so little. I'd actually say spellcraft is an automatic choice for clerics if you have nothing else planned for your skills.

[Nifft]

IIRC, the Epic Spellcasting feat requires 24 ranks in Spellcraft.

So spellcraft has that going for it.

Which is nice.

[King of Nowhere]

On the other hand, if you already have a wizard in the party to maximize spellcraft, and your campaign is not supposed to go epic, you can skip it much more easily. If you plan to go epic, you also need knowledge (religion), so you need human or an int bonus. Or if there is nobody else better suited to be the party's face, diplomacy is more important.

[Goaty14]

It's also good for removing effects from your allies... so you know that Remove Disease isn't going to cure your ally's curse.


If you plan to go epic, you also need knowledge (religion), so you need human or an int bonus.

Context: Your epic spell slots are your relevant knowledge (religon for divine, nature for druids, arcana for arcane) modifier /10 or 20? If you don't have enough modifier, then no slots for u.

[AvatarVecna]

In regards to skill point shortages, clerics can go cloistered for an extra 4/level (and full knowledge skills access).

[Thurbane]

It also saves blowing resources to identify potions. At low-mid levels this can come in handy (until you have a Monocle of the Artificer or similar).

Annoying though, the DC 25 can be tough to reach at low levels. By the time you can reliably reach it, you usually have other options.