Wood elves and MToF

[Millstone85]

I really like MToF, including much of what it says about elves.

Some things bother me, though. Here is one.

It is obvious that the "general" description of elves presented in this book doesn't apply to drow, eladrin and shadar-kai.

But I think it doesn't quite match with wood elves and sea elves either. Really, it is only about high elves.

Let's focus on wood elves. Here is how I see them:
* They are most critical of the past and willing to move on from it, while high elves are ever nostalgic of what elves once were.
* They have embraced the Material and druidic beliefs. They might actually be glad to be forever reincarnated.
* They wouldn't treat bladesingers and arcane archers as typical of their culture. Wrong magic.

Do you agree, or am I getting myself confused with 4e lore?

[Arkhios]

Do you agree, or am I getting myself confused with 4e lore?

I tend to have a general rule: Whatever happened in 4th edition, stays in 4th edition. :smallcool:

... that way, you're less likely to be confused.

[ZenBear]

I’m generally in agreement with your interpretation, 4e notwithstanding. What is MToF?

[Unoriginal]

But I think it doesn't quite match with wood elves and sea elves either. Really, it is only about high elves.

Not really, it's about all elves, except the obvious differences due to environment and the noted exceptions.

Same way the Dwarf chapter applies to both Hill and Mountain Dwarves unless it's said otherwise.

[Millstone85]

I tend to have a general rule: Whatever happened in 4th edition, stays in 4th edition. :smallcool:

... that way, you're less likely to be confused.Well, 4e was my initial encounter with D&D, so it is going to be a difficult rule for me to apply.


I’m generally in agreement with your interpretation, 4e notwithstanding. What is MToF?Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes.

[Unoriginal]

Well, 4e was my initial encounter with D&D, so it is going to be a difficult rule for me to apply.

3.X was my initial encoutner with D&D, thanks all the gods and their angels I can apply "what happened in 3.X stays in 3.X".

[Arkhios]

Well, 4e was my initial encounter with D&D, so it is going to be a difficult rule for me to apply.

FWIW, as with Unoriginal, 3.5 was my first contact with the tabletop D&D. I had played several D&D-themed PC games before that, but had no idea of the RPG back then. However, realizing that, I find it important to accept the game's roots.

Regarding your statement:


It is obvious that the "general" description of elves presented in this book doesn't apply to drow, eladrin and shadar-kai.

It is not obvious. In fact, that statement is wildly inaccurate, because all those three (and wood elves) share same origin, as well as similar racial features, with the rest of the elvenkind.

All elves have fey origins
All elves live ridiculously long
All elves are lithe
All elves have long pointed ears
All elves see in the dark
All elves have adapted to their habitats: Drow with the Underdark, Eladrins with the Feywild (and within it, different seasons), High Elves with their cities, Sea Elves with seas, Shadar-kai with Shadowfell, Wood Elves with woodlands.

All that is true in (almost) every edition (except in 4th edition, which, I'm not kidding, messed things up).

While it's true that before 5th edition the Shadar-kai were not exactly elves, they were fey in 3rd edition and before. For some unfathomable reason, in 4th edition, the designers made the call that shadar-kai were not fey at all, thus stripping them off of their previous lore (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shadar-kai_(fey)).

Likewise, eladrin have always been considered as relatives to the elves, they're just a bit more otherwordly than the "normal" elves.

And the drow? In most stories, regardless of edition or setting, the dark elves used to live above ground with the other elves, but after Lolth and Corellon had a falling out, Lolth and her followers went on to live in the Underdark.

In general, I agree with Unoriginal, whatever happened in X-edition, stays in X-edition, as I said before. However, it's worthwhile to recognize where these races are coming from. If a race was truly introduced in 4th edition for the first time, of course I would accept that as the original interpretation and how they should be perceived now, but that's not the case with any of the elves. All elven subraces (to a stretch, even the shadar-kai) have "history" in the game far beyond 4th edition. That history ought to mean something, even now in 5th edition.

[Millstone85]

snipNone of that is what I (thought I had) put the spotlight on.

The chapter speaks at length of the elven longing for Arvandor, where their souls are only permitted to dwell for a time before reincarnation. It goes to the point where elves react to a birth with a mix of happiness and sadness, because it means an elven soul has just been sent away from Arvandor.

In their section, it is said that eladrin do not long for Arvandor, but are content to keep their souls bound to the Feywild, where they hope to eventually become fully fey. Ironically, many of those who succeed are then very welcome in Arvandor. As for drow and shadar-kai, their souls are in the hands of much different forces.

The way I picture wood elves, they would have warranted another exception note. They are very in touch with nature as it exists on the Material, mixing the worship of the Seldarine with druidic beliefs. Much like eladrin in the Feywild, they should be happy to be reborn again and again, maybe until they become primal spirits.

And I think that interpretation of wood elves is older than 4e, though I am not entirely sure. This is why I mentioned the edition.

[Unoriginal]

The way I picture wood elves, they would have warranted another exception note. They are very in touch with nature as it exists on the Material, mixing the worship of the Seldarine with druidic beliefs. Much like eladrin in the Feywild, they should be happy to be reborn again and again, maybe until they become primal spirits.

And I think that interpretation of wood elves is older than 4e, though I am not entirely sure. This is why I mentioned the edition.

You are of course free to picture them like that if you wish, but this is not how the Mordenkainen's or 5e present them.

[Arkhios]

You are of course free to picture them like that if you wish, but this is not how the Mordenkainen's or 5e present them.

Agreed. MToF presents the races as they are in 5th edition, by default. Every DM has every right to differentiate from that default; just, keep in mind that whatever you think is correct is only your opinion.

[Millstone85]

You are of course free to picture them like that if you wish, but this is not how the Mordenkainen's or 5e present them.
Agreed. MToF presents the races as they are in 5th edition, by default. Every DM has every right to differentiate from that default; just, keep in mind that whatever you think is correct is only your opinion.Oki doki wonki.

But just to be clear, was it a 4e idea to make wood elves more druidic in their beliefs? Did 3.X not have that?

[hamishspence]

But just to be clear, was it a 4e idea to make wood elves more druidic in their beliefs? Did 3.X not have that?

3e Races of Faerun has both Wood Elves and Green Elves (in other editions, Wood Elves and Green Elves are basically the same thing) have significantly more druids than clerics.

[Millstone85]

3e Races of Faerun has both Wood Elves and Green Elves (in other editions, Wood Elves and Green Elves are basically the same thing) have significantly more druids than clerics.Then I am going to imagine wood elves as having the same homesickness as high elves, but somewhat alleviated by their deep connection with the natural world.

[Arkhios]

Then I am going to imagine wood elves as having the same homesickness as high elves, but somewhat alleviated by their deep connection with the natural world.

To be honest, that would make a lot of sense, if what I found as the description of Arvandor is correct (I'm AFB, so I can't check from there, if Arvandor was described somehow in MToF):

Arvandor -- was covered in lush forests, massive mountains, perfectly clear streams, placid lakes, and an ocean --

The natural world's pockets of untouched wilderness might indeed remind Wood Elves of Arvandor and help them alleviate their "painful" memories of Arvandor.