Letting Players Run or Ruin the Nation's Politics and Economy

[DiscipleofBob]

The short version: my players are transitioning into a phase of the campaign where they have to play politics, and I'm looking for ideas on how to handle the politics and running of a country.

They'll hopefully get their benefactor, basically the police chief of a magical arcane wizard nation, out of political hot water while negotiating with ambitious politicians each with their own special interests. Eventually they'll have to deal with the benefits and consequences of allying or making enemies with each politician, and the impact on the wizard nation they're representing, including the budget of the country, all while going out and doing additional missions for said nation.

Has anyone ever run or played in a nation building/running 5e game? What sort of rules do you use? How do you handle things like running the economy of a nation so the players understand their impact on the nation's welfare?

Long version for those curious for details:
The campaign started in Arcadia, a collection of magical floating islands run by wizards who founded the nation so they could practice their magic and research without the interference of other nations. It consists of one large island, Arcadia Prime, surrounded by eight smaller islands each housing the wizard school for a particular specialization. These eight islands used to be located in other nations across the world but were teleported and levitated to Arcardia.

The party consists of Navarra, an elf librarian from Delphi, the island of divination; Solomon, an Aasimar Cleric of Boccob (the deity of arcane magic for this setting) whose aunt is the high priestess of Boccob, Captain Troy Z'rand, a human eldritch fighter of noble blood who is part of a contingent of eldritch fighters meant to train with the wizards of Arcadia, Finn Bane, a human arcane trickster who works with a few international trade guilds (totally not criminal syndicates) that focus on the arcane component and magical item trade, Alexias, a Tabaxi paladin of Bahamut who is exactly as out of place as you'd expect, and new member Harrol, a halfling college of blades bard/battlemaster fighter performer & duelist searching the islands of Arcadia for his lost love. There was also Winslow, a kenku Hexblade with a sentient scythe, but he was killed during the campaign. His player is now the halfling bard.

First thing that happens, during the new year's festival, a bunch of wild magic sorcerers attacked causing chaos and triggering Arcadia's secret defense, a powerful spell which sends all the islands back to their original location and surrounds them in a forcefield that prevents teleportation and communication magics. Only the archmages of each island were supposed to know about this defense measure and it had never actually been tested. There was supposed to be an artifact that each archmage could use for emergency communication and teleportation, but Arcadia Prime was unable to contact any of the other islands. So while the islands were theoretically safe from outside threats, no one had any way of knowing whether the other islands were safe, or who might be responsible for all of this.

The only archmage on Arcadia Prime was Judicia Jurian, the elven archmage of Abjuration and leader of Arcadia's local law enforcement, the Abjurity Officers. She couldn't even contact her home island, so she was forced to send a small group of trusted individuals (and a few other people to spare for support) out to investigate the other islands. The problem was by herself she technically didn't have the authority to issue such a mission, so the party had to find a way off the island on their own. Airships were grounded due to the paranoia from the recent attack, so while they managed to escape with one of the docked airships, they weren't as successful in doing so unnoticed.

After some travel, they managed to reach one of the islands, Delphi, the island of divination. Its forcefield kept them from physically entering, but the party managed to get through by mean of secret tunnel and eventually managed to activate a crystal orb that restored limited teleportation communication to Arcadia Prime.

Now they've just returned to Arcadia Prime and the political situation is tense. Without the rest of the archmages, a number of officials representing other factions and special interests within Arcadia have formed an emergency council, and Judicia has been the subject of weeks of investigation and hearings. Before the party returned, the council had every intention of removing as much power from Judicia as possible as that would give them more political power for themselves. Now that the party has returned and produced results, the individual council members now have to rethink their strategies if any of them want to remain in power.

The council members are as follows:
Yoichi Zelaniel: An elf with long good standing in Arcadia and the primary instructor in the arts of arcane archery. He represents elven interests and would like to see Arcadia open up more trade with the elven nation of Wildhearth, but beyond that prefers an isolationist approach to other nations.
Fantiz Mal: A merchant from the desert country of Scarabia who has been elected by various guilds to represent mercantile interests. He would love nothing more than for Judicia's law enforcement officers to be stripped of their powers so his people can trade and smuggle without obstacles.
Commander El-Tumuh: A tiefling eldritch fighter from the tiefling nation of Pyrenobel. She's the commander of the largest faction of eldritch fighters and their defacto representative. She would love to replace the law enforcement officers of Arcadia with her own military forces. There's also the possibility that she's in league with devils that run parts of Pyrenobel.
Prestige Calatressa: The high priestess of Boccob and aunt to the party cleric. She doesn't have much interest in politics but attends the council out of obligation and to make sure that nothing bad happens to her church as the result of shifting politics.
Josefi Apollodorus the Lyre: An elven bard of lore representing the five bardic colleges. Not taken seriously by the wizards of Arcadia, she would love to have the bardic colleges formally represented in Arcadia. Judicia has some rightful concerns about bards learning and spreading the type of arcane knowledge that really shouldn't be spread.
Tyran Zaurus: A dragonborn from the draconic nation of Khromferra, ruled by ancient dragons and second in magical items and research only to Arcadia. He would love to open up more trade routes and avenues to the draconic nation.
Gnedranya Amberdoors: A gnome ambassador from one of the few settlements in the Feywild who seeks to open up more trade and commerce with the Feywild.
Barnaby Goodwell: A researcher of fantastic beasts and where to find them ((sorry, had to)). He's more interested in creating and preserving habitats for various types of rare creatures, everything from magical beasts to aberrations, both in Arcadia and across the world. ((I might switch this one out if I can think of a more appropriate politician.))

I'm trying to think of good ways to roleplay these NPCs, the demands they make and the compromises they'd be willing to make, as well as the potential long-term ramifications some of their demands might have on the nation of Arcadia. If possible, I'd like to try and figure out what Arcadia's budget as a nation. How it can be extended. What happens when the players making deals with politicians end up spending more money than Arcadia actually has, especially when trade is currently limited.

[Crgaston]

First... wow, nice world building!

Players will have their homework cut out for them. Consider printing out a cheat sheet with the names and brief bios of things the PCs would know about all those folks to help the players keep it all straight.

Regarding the budgeting, they may have to borrow from someone or otherwise make deals to secure funding. Forging alliances with one or more of the factions would seem a logical first step. At least 4 of those groups look like excellent candidates for this, and no one benefits if Arcadia just outright falls (or do they?) so at least some of them should be willing to stake the PCs in exchange for trade concessions or status.

You may want to limit large gatherings of the council or else you run the risk of having to RP a bunch of different characters arguing with each other while the players sit there and listen to you talk to yourself.

As far as figuring out the budget, you could calculate a rough GDP by using the tables for Lifestyle Expenses applied to the population and standards that exist in Arcadia. From there you can apply a tax rate to find the estimated annual income of Arcadia. Have they built up a surplus in recent years, or are they already in debt? And to whom? This will give you a basis to calculate what’s in the treasury currently.

Also, there are liable to be very valuable items/knowledge that could be bartered, rented or sold in a magic kingdom.


Looks like some fun stuff ahead... good luck!

[DiscipleofBob]

First of all, thanks for the reply and the compliment.

I took your advice and used the lifestyle cost as a basis. I figured Arcadia has four major trade cities with airship ports and one capitol that's less of a residential or commercial area and more just where various politicians, lawyers, and the like congregate. A couple sources I've read say D&D cities go up to 25,000. Since these would be smaller cities I approximated 10,000 per trade city and 1,000 for the capitol has Elminster.

Just to show my math and thought process, for lifestyle expenses, 4 gp is for wealthy living and 40 gp minimum for aristocratic living. Of course things are much more expensive in Arcadia so I doubled the cost for each. The cities would have an average wealthy lifestyle of 8 gp per day per person and an aristocratic wealth of 80,000 gp.

80,000 gp for the capitol.
40,000 times 8 equals 320,000 gp for the other four cities combined.
So that's 400,000 gp spent per day in a very wealthy mage society.
Years are 360 days in this setting, so 360 times 400,000 equals 144,000,000
To go down to a comfortable lifestyle would be 108,000,000 and people will be satisfied until then.
30% will make the annual budget which is 43,200,000
10% from income taxes
20% from tariffs and trade taxes.

If I change this to a monthly budget...
The nation as a whole spends 12,000,000
The Arcadian government makes 3,600,000 gp in taxes so that's the monthly budget for the nation.

Most of the numbers are probably a little complex to expect the average player to keep up with, but as long as things are figured out on my end I can figure out the rest.
So I guess the next step is to determine what the budget is currently spent on.
I didn't include the population or income from the eight satellite islands of Arcadia, even though normally they'd be the main source of magical items and services that Arcadia's economy would be based off of rather than just trade.
Maybe once the airships aren't grounded I can figure out some kind of formula where investing a certain amount of money yields so much profit.
Perhaps it can involve a roll where the DC is raised or lowered depending on how much the players are willing to spend on certain parts of the budget.

[Asmotherion]

I love the idea.

Make an initial budget, and an amount of income from taxes (for example, Arcane Focus Tax Income, Teleportation Circle Tax Income etc), and estimate some budget for Guards, Taking care of the Walls etc. Roll randomly for accidents (for example, a magical experiment gone wrong might explode a part of the wall, needing some budget to repair; not having this budget leaves the city oppen to attacks).

They can increase taxes, but this would give them negative popularity. If they popularity reaches 0 they cannot make decissions for a tenday, and must spend it to gain back to popularity 1. Decreasing taxes gives them popularity. Their initial Pupularity is a Charisma Based check.

Reducing budget from guards, can increase the budget but has a random (increasing by the amount reduced) chance to put them on strike for a tenday, and in turn increase criminal activity. In the tenday, the vaults holding the budget may be hit by bandits (random chance).

How does that sound?

[DiscipleofBob]

I love the idea.

Make an initial budget, and an amount of income from taxes (for example, Arcane Focus Tax Income, Teleportation Circle Tax Income etc), and estimate some budget for Guards, Taking care of the Walls etc. Roll randomly for accidents (for example, a magical experiment gone wrong might explode a part of the wall, needing some budget to repair; not having this budget leaves the city oppen to attacks).

They can increase taxes, but this would give them negative popularity. If they popularity reaches 0 they cannot make decissions for a tenday, and must spend it to gain back to popularity 1. Decreasing taxes gives them popularity. Their initial Pupularity is a Charisma Based check.

Reducing budget from guards, can increase the budget but has a random (increasing by the amount reduced) chance to put them on strike for a tenday, and in turn increase criminal activity. In the tenday, the vaults holding the budget may be hit by bandits (random chance).

How does that sound?

That is a lot of the stuff I'm going to try for. They need to spend money on various infrastructure and social welfare programs, especially with the main sources of income cut off from Arcadia. But raising taxes too much will hurt their budget and public opinion.

With the individual council members representing special interests, they'll each have their demands which will cost money too. And refusing them could mean that they act against the party's interests.

Some things to spend the budget on will including things like law enforcement and infrastructure, where it doesn't generate profit but improves quality of life and hopefully prevents bad things from happening. And also things like welfare projects or trade deals that can generate additional finances.

Crime definitely has to be an element. Especially since most of the council members will want to benefit from decreased law enforcement as it means less red tape for their interests.

[DiscipleofBob]

Here's what I have so far.

First, the budget of Arcadia. The players won't need to know this detailed information, but it will be available for my notes and if the players want to make knowledge checks.

Arcadia's monthly budget is 3,600,000 gp spent as follows:
Infrastructure – Total currently 40%
Housing and Urban Development including displaced refugees – 5%
Education, always a priority since this a nation of wizard schools – 10%
Environment, maintaining the island and the areas between cities – 5%
Energy, relatively high due to the number of arcane improvements to quality of life – 10%
Transportation, there are a number of magical public transit options, though the usual teleportation circles are currently out of commission reducing costs – 5%
Food and Agriculture, mostly for magical food and supply creation, largely privatized to reduce federal spending – 5%
Trade
Trade Contracts – 10%
International Affairs – 5%
Military, Government Spending
Military spending, the Abjurity Officers make up local law enforcement and customs enforcement – 10%
International Affairs – expenses for maintaining relationships with foreign powers
Research and Development
Research funding for all the wizards still researching and studying on Arcadia. - 20%

This is how the categories break down:
Infrastructure – 40%
This will determine the people of Arcadia's standard of living and, as long as they're generally happy, will pay the Income Tax. For simplicity purposes, the Income Tax is everything the population of Arcadia pays and provides steady income to the Federal Budget.
Trade – 15%
The amount spent on trade will translate into a number of checks made behind the DM screen to determine the success of the trade as well the amount of Tariffs or Import/Export Taxes that also provide income to the Federal Budget. Tariffs are different from Income Tax in that Income Tax is steady while the Tariffs involve a roll to determine the success of the trades. This can result in a net loss at worst or a potentially much higher profit at best.
Military, Government Spending – 15%
Money spent on the military and government infrastructure generates no income on its own. But it does provide more stability and security, meaning less chance that bad things happen when those checks are rolled (see below).
Research and Development – 20%
Money spent on Magical Research & Development, the chief industry of Arcadia and primary occupation of many of its inhabitants, will result in at least some base income but may also result in upgrades to infrastructure, new inventions, improvements, and perhaps even magical items for the players.

This adds up to 90%, leaving 10% of the budget left for either a surplus or discretionary spending in case the players or certain NPCs decide to increase certain items in the budget. They can also vote to raise or lower taxes to change the monthly budget accordingly.

The PCs don't have direct control over the budget, they only have a certain amount of influence over various politicians due to their exploits and can make suggestions as needed.

At the end of each month I'll take all the finer details and calculate the monthly budget, let the PCs know if Arcadia is under budget or over budget, and then roll some percentile dice for the following categories:

Public Opinion – If the people are dissatisfied, they may take action or refuse to pay taxes.
Crime – Especially with Arcadia currently being isolated, crime could very well go on the rise.
Infrastructure Issues – What happens when the magical transportation breaks down or some buildings start to crumble.
Foreign Influence – Assuming Arcadia doesn't remain completely isolated from the outside world, there may be visitors from other nations bringing their own issues or demands, or causing their own brand of trouble.

Investing in military and government infrastructure will lessen the chance that something bad will happen, but it will still be a roll and may result in a “random encounter” that the players will have to deal with if Arcadia can't fix it themselves.

[kane.84]

I've made a ruleset about it, the kingdom (or whatever, it can be a city, a barony, town, temple etc.) has abilities just like player character:

Army - Strength of its troops when called to war/defence
Intrigue - Executing plots and espionage, countering plots and espionage
Economy - Strength of economy of course
Order - Strength of law in the kingdom, power of its militia and ability to uphold law in the land
Knowledge - How educated is the kingdom, how much knowledge is stored in it's inhabitants and libraries
Prestige - Equivalent of Charisma, how is your kingdom perceived by others, power of it's diplomacy

There are NPC consuellors like spy, treasurer, marshal etc. who add to these abilities depending on how good they are

There are Resources, a virtual pool of money, labor and materials to use every turn (three months) to build things and make other decisions

There is Loyalty, separate for commoners and nobility

There are many Special Features of the kingdom i.e.:
Xenophoby - the folk of the land is distrusting towards strangers, watching them carefully and not welcoming them with ease. +1 Intrigue, -1 Knowledge

The buildings also modify the realm and allow special actions i.e.:

Warehouses - Kingdom is able to hold up to 200 resources for the next turn for each warehouse.
Library - Prestige +1, Knowledge +1

Each turn I roll random events, beneficial or harmful, that usually require decision. The results of the decisions that require usually an appriopriate ability roll are sometimes known couple of turn later, what leads to interesting events.

This is my input to the topic, based on modified and extended Pathfinder kingdom rules. I'd gladly share my notes on it, but they're in Polish, so... ;)

[ImproperJustice]

Could I recommend the excellent faction rules and system made by Kevin Crawford for Stars Without Number / Other Dust.

It is a Sci-fi system, but it is built using OSR rules which convert very easily to 5e.
It is built to work on a hex map, and if you change the names of the assets (Cyber-Assassins to Magic enhanced assassins) for instance, you have a very workable system that can kind of run itself in the background between player turns or sessions and whose consequences can fuel adventure hooks.

The players can also directly impact the other factions or kingdoms by targeting various assets or bases of influence during their play.

It is one of the best parts of that system and it does work super well with 5e.
Best part?
It’s free.

[DiscipleofBob]

Could I recommend the excellent faction rules and system made by Kevin Crawford for Stars Without Number / Other Dust.

It is a Sci-fi system, but it is built using OSR rules which convert very easily to 5e.
It is built to work on a hex map, and if you change the names of the assets (Cyber-Assassins to Magic enhanced assassins) for instance, you have a very workable system that can kind of run itself in the background between player turns or sessions and whose consequences can fuel adventure hooks.

The players can also directly impact the other factions or kingdoms by targeting various assets or bases of influence during their play.

It is one of the best parts of that system and it does work super well with 5e.
Best part?
It’s free.

That sounds interesting. Would you happen to have a link?