Imprisoning Spellcasters

[FrancisBean]

I have a campaign I'd sketched out to run back in 3.5 days. The group imploded, I stashed the notes, and eventually migrated onward to 5e. I've dusted it off and I'm trying to figure out how to make some of the mechanics work.

The party meets at 1st level in prison, sharing a "link," or cell block. They'll spend the first level learning to cope with prison life, finding ways to get contraband such as weapons, spell components, maybe even a page torn from a spell book and smuggled in. Second level they're caught up in a turf war, during which they impress the right person, who breaks them out and puts them in servitude to a local corrupt noble just in time for third level.

My problem: how do I keep them inside for the first 2 levels??

Under 3.5, spellcasters could be limited quite a bit by the lack of material components, inability to acquire spells, etc. Under 5e, I'm finding that it's much harder to keep a determined second-level PC locked up. E.g., any Druid/2 can wild-shape to a mouse and slip out with the rest of the real vermin. Or a spider, which has both stealth and climbs walls well! Any High Elf has access to a Wizard cantrip, which could be Acid Splash, and could easily dissolve the lock to her cell door during the course of a night. And so forth.

The setting operates under the assumption that PC class characters aren't common. Most of the other inmates have no class levels. The better guards might. Setting-wide, there are only a handful of casters known to be able to handle 6th level spells. The warden has a decent familiarity with PC class abilities, and can put in place any cost-effective measures he deems necessary. The prison isn't intended to keep anybody over 3rd level in place; for that, they have a separate maximum security facility.

The campaign setting is also a little magic-lite, so I'm reluctant to drop in a random MacGuffin which nullifies magic in the area. Some noble would have found an excuse to acquire it years ago. Plus, I want there to be uses for smuggled spells and components in the first 2 levels. And I don't want to lose the fun of Crazy Ole' Eddie, the drooling, senile old man who wanders around trying to find someone who can loan him "just a pinch of bat guano, that's all I need, just a pinch!"

Any ideas? So far, my best idea is to tie the link together; if anybody in the link escapes and the rest don't stop it nor tattle, they all get executed. It's a little heavy-handed, but it's the best I've got.

[Mr Beer]

If spellcasters exist, measures will be taken to counter them. If a big anti-magic zone is too high magic for you, how about herbs in the food that interfere with magical ability in some way? Have the effect be somewhat limited, maybe shapeshifting doesn't work or every spell casting causes increased suffering or level 3 spells and higher work but not 'low magics'. Something that nerfs the characters but not so amazing that everyone in the world wants this wonder plant.

[Tanarii]

Put them in armor they aren't proficient in. Heavy armor will do it for non-clerics.

Added bonus, if you put a Druid in metal amour they explode.

[Ignimortis]

Any ideas? So far, my best idea is to tie the link together; if anybody in the link escapes and the rest don't stop it nor tattle, they all get executed. It's a little heavy-handed, but it's the best I've got.

Really tight handcuffs and/or gags for spellcasters should do the trick. As long as they're restrained/gagged, they can't perform somatic/vocal components for spells. Dealing with Druids is harder, but I'd say that having a tightly sealed cell with holes that can only be used from outside/are small enough to only let in air, isn't impossible for a well-stocked prison when you have to take measures about those. Additionally, having a wizard understudy (level 1, why not?) in the Watch allows them to cast Alarm on the prison exit and check everyone who triggers it.

[Kane0]

Does this help? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftJqf3_oxCM)

You already want the PCs to break out, why limit when and how? The prison isn't equipped for PCs, just roll with their ideas and make the environment interesting with the smuggling and turf war and lots of chances to get around the prison but not out entirely. If one PC can get out in one way then great, what about the rest?

Typical things prisons do are layers, placing guards between inmates and exits, randomized schedules, etc. Just set up the situation (both for and against the PCs) and see what they do, unless both you and the players prefer the more railed approach of course.

[FrancisBean]

You already want the PCs to break out, why limit when and how? ... unless both you and the players prefer the more railed approach of course.

You've nailed it right there. It's a railroad to get them into servitude for 3rd level; after that things get a lot more free. Or rather, the rails are above-board and part of the world, and they can do what they want with it. But really, prison seems like a perfectly reasonable place to have rails, and a little bit of railroading to set up a plot won't bother my players if it's done in a way which fits the world.


...having a wizard understudy (level 1, why not?) in the Watch allows them to cast Alarm on the prison exit and check everyone who triggers it.

That'll help a great deal right there, particularly since Alarm goes all the way down to "Tiny." Stealth doesn't help against it, either. I'd been envisioning more passive constraints. This switches it to much more active response from the guards. I like it.

[CTurbo]

I was gonna say put them in armor, but you may as well say the entire prison is antimagic except I would absolutely HATE if I chose a spellcaster character only to not be able to use any spells for 2 levels. You're literally left with nothing.

[Kane0]

If you peruse over the list of common magical items you may find some that could be useful in keeping inmates in prison while also being neat but not powerful loot for your party. They could even act like trinkets earned rather than something they automatically start with (sonce they would be confiscated)

Having some guards that know thieves cant would be important I wager, corrupt or no.

Most prisons would have layers to their security too, making some means of escape more difficult than others.

Also acid splash technically only works against creatures, just like Eldritch Blast. Plus its intantaneous duration so you cant bottle it or whatever. You’d want a lot of nonflammable stuff though, for both firebolt and regular ‘incidents’

[leogobsin]

What if the prison is in a very isolated and inhospitable location, like a small island in particularly rough seas or in the middle of the desert: the players could escape but once they were outside the prison there's nowhere to go. The person who breaks them out has arranged transportation away, and reaches out to the PCs because they have abilities that can be used to break out of the prison.

[Unoriginal]

Just have a guard or an enchanted animal keep an eye on each of them.

The Warden could be a Warlock with the capacity to talk with animals, and so he convinced them to help with keeping the inmates under watch.

Keep in mind that magic isn't all-powerful. The non-magic-using PCs could just as easily escape, given what they're capable of.

[Vorpalchicken]

Could put them in spiked armor. Only dwarf battleragers are proficient in that. It would have to be like a spikey chastity belt style deal.

Say what kind of dungeon is this?

[Mjolnirbear]

There are lots of things needed to cast a spell successfully.

1: components. I gotta be honest, most games I've played the DM doesn't care about components that much. Which means most players don't bother to learn which spells the can cast while gagged, or bound. If a player is paranoid enough to know a spell that is, say, only S component, for *just* such an emergency, let him have it! But otherwise, it will hold them up. Let them try their spells (in hiding, risking discovery, losing spell slots if they don't work) until they find one they can use to escape. This should buy time for the turf war. Unless you have a sorcerer with Subtle.

2: target. You can't cast a spell if you can't see the target. A blindfold or burlap sack at sensitive times, like during yard time or near doors or guards, can prevent debuffs and damage spells. They can cast buffs but buffs are often limited in their get out of jail free potential. This means they'll need the right moment or a slip up, during which time, turf war. A bat familiar or blindsense rogue could mess with this potentially.

There are also ways to mess with actions, or magic.

3. Lack of sleep. This isn't RAW. But lack of sleep messes with your focus, concentration, perception, and health. The rules for exhaustion don't quite say "can't cast spells" but add a simple constitution check to be able to cast while exhausted and under stress, and the actual RAW rules for exhaustion will do the rest.

4. Armour could work a treat, but if your spellcaster is a pally, or the right cleric, or has the right feat(s), it won't work. Also, armouring your prisoners? That's just risky. But it would work for sure.

5. You could also have it be a magic dead zone. If your world is low-magic, maybe magic doesn't flow freely anymore, and there are places the Weave doesn't touch. They might need to sacrifice spell slots just to patch the weave there. Enough spell slots and time, and suddenly the Weave works well enough to handle one or two spells without tearing. Might as well have a turf war while you're waiting.

6.keep them paralyzed, unconscious, or incapacitated. Medicine can do it, or poison. But then it's just saving throws until one wakes up. Very boring. Best as a stop-gap measure, such as during transit.

[Unoriginal]

There are lots of things needed to cast a spell successfully.

1: components. I gotta be honest, most games I've played the DM doesn't care about components that much. Which means most players don't bother to learn which spells the can cast while gagged, or bound. If a player is paranoid enough to know a spell that is, say, only S component, for *just* such an emergency, let him have it! But otherwise, it will hold them up. Let them try their spells (in hiding, risking discovery, losing spell slots if they don't work) until they find one they can use to escape. This should buy time for the turf war. Unless you have a sorcerer with Subtle.



It's true keeping the spellcasters manacled (as in, those manacles that don't let you use your hands like in for supervillains in comic books), gagged and/or blindfolded stop most of them, but then:



Say what kind of dungeon is this?

[Glorthindel]

I would straight houserule additional components for spells/abilities that don't have them. Any spell without a component requires a one-use focus rod/bead, Druid shapeshifting requires a bracelet of holly or mistletoe, Paladin Smites and Lay of Hands requires a holy Symbol, etc, etc.

Be up front with the players that for thematic reasons you need to place limits on normally unlimited abilities at first, and explain that these limits will be removed later in the game - maybe level 3 represents characters "coming in to their power", when characters can control their powers internally, without needing to rely on these crutch items that are needed by apprentices and novices as they discover their power. If you are up front with them, they are likely to run with the extra restrictions, rather than thinking you are trying to screw them unfairly.

[Unoriginal]

I would be against adding restrictions to casters, they have enough of them.


Non-casters won't have the restrictions casters already have, and if anything in those circumtences they are more dangerous than the casters. Adding restrictions to casters won't make it fun for them.

[Asmotherion]

Just use handcuffs. No somatics effectively means no to more than half their spells. If they can somehow make something with this, reward, don't punish this. It's the rare case of the caster who outsmarted the security.

It's just like how you'll reward the fighter who somehow disarms a guard of his sword and starts the prison break.

[Sjappo]

If you make the prison isolated enough, escape won't be a problem. Say Alcatraz. Sure, the druid could shapechange into a bird and fly away. Then what? He has taken himself out of the adventure.

I would bring this up in session zero. Tell the players they start in a prison so don't bother with equipment. Escape is not the focus of the game, or in any case not at the start of the campaign. You could have the players come up with an explanation if you want, but don't sweat it.

[Unoriginal]

Note that a Wizard without spellbook cannot prepare new spells. Even if they get already written spells, they will need time and expensive components to make it theirs.

[Darth Ultron]

If you make the prison isolated enough, escape won't be a problem. Say Alcatraz. Sure, the druid could shapechange into a bird and fly away. Then what? He has taken himself out of the adventure.



This would be my base thing to do. The focus of this adventure is in the prison. If you wish for your character to escape, then note you are saying you want to escape from the gameplay. So, if you escape, you get to sit in the corner and not play.

Also:

1.The ''buddy system". Common in prisons. If Bob the druid does escape, all the other PCs will be killed. Even more so if like ''one person escapes, everyone in their cell block is killed": this has the nice effect of having the other prisoners watch each other(because they don't want to die if someone escapes).

2.Cruelty. If you know someone is a spellcaster and might cause trouble you can always break their fingers, cut off a hand, sew their mouth mostly shut or do some other such injury.

3.Drugs. In the food or water or everywhere. The drugs can have lots of effects...anything you'd like.


I would never do a ''low magic world", I like high magic. So I'd have something like ''guardian ghost snakes" that watch the prisoners. You sure don't want to shapechange into some food sized animal then......

[LudicSavant]

Just use handcuffs. No somatics effectively means no to more than half their spells.

That's a terribly ineffective way of containing spellcasters, given how common Misty Step is, and that Misty Step has no somatic component.

[SirGraystone]

I would just put shackles on their wrists and/or ankles like the rest of the players. But have one of the guard explain the rules of the jail, that no magic is allow, and those breaking that rules will be punished. If they get caught using magic a first time, cuffs their arms behind their back, gag them and beat them to 1 hp (or 0 if a guard got killed). Caught a second time, a have his face covered by a leather hood to block his sight or throw them in a cell with no light.

[Nifft]

You've nailed it right there. It's a railroad to get them into servitude for 3rd level; after that things get a lot more free. Or rather, the rails are above-board and part of the world, and they can do what they want with it. But really, prison seems like a perfectly reasonable place to have rails, and a little bit of railroading to set up a plot won't bother my players if it's done in a way which fits the world.

The way I'd run this:

- "Hey guys, the campaign concept is that you've been imprisoned somehow until you got to level 3, and then you were forced into servitude. So make level 3 characters, and let's brainstorm everyone's prison backstory events which happened from level 1 to 3."

- Players make level 3 characters; no-escape prison events were backstory, not something they play through; players are asked to come up with concepts and reasons which are harmonious with the campaign, rather than being railroaded into the campaign.

[JackPhoenix]

Train them. Get a guy with a stick to watch over them, if they try to cast a spell, hit them with a stick. Spellcasters are smart, they'll get it. It works with dogs and newspapers, apparently...


That's a terribly ineffective way of containing spellcasters, given how common Misty Step is, and that Misty Step has no somatic component.

Add bag over the head. Now they can't see the target location. Add gag... now they can't use verbal components. Gag is more effective anyway, as there are more spells without somatic than without verbal components.

[Nifft]

It works with dogs and newspapers, apparently...

Can confirm.

I hit my newspaper with a dog until now it says exactly what I want to hear.

[Asmotherion]

That's a terribly ineffective way of containing spellcasters, given how common Misty Step is, and that Misty Step has no somatic component.

Well, he did specify levels 1-2, were Misty Step is unavalable, so...

Or make non-cantrips uncastable without a spellcasting Focus. I've considered this as a Homerule multiple times. Keeps casters Magical, but they need their Focus to... focus their magic.

On an other topic, for a magical prison a-la Azkaban, have Alips patrol the Building. Alips always reminded me of Dementors more or less.

[FrancisBean]

I would be against adding restrictions to casters, they have enough of them.

Non-casters won't have the restrictions casters already have, and if anything in those circumtences they are more dangerous than the casters. Adding restrictions to casters won't make it fun for them.

I also want casters to be a hot commodity for the insider crooks. "Sure, I'll getcher yer shiv if'n y'cn cast this wee spell off'n a scroll I happ'n t'have access ta... Y'wanna play er rot?" Far from locking down casters, I want to make them a big deal. I just need to keep them inside while I do it.

For the record, I expect the most dangerous inmates to be anyone with an attacking cantrip (Wizards, Druids, Clerics, Bards, Warlocks, Sorcerers, High Elves, VHumans with Magic Initiate), Monks, and possibly Barbarians. The lack of customary weapons is a major problem for everybody else. (Barbarian's +2 Rage dmg is also big deal at these levels.) Plenty of classes have a chance to be sexy for the first 2 levels. Rangers and Paladins seem to lose the most, if I'm thinking things through correctly.


I would bring this up in session zero. Tell the players they start in a prison so don't bother with equipment. Escape is not the focus of the game, or in any case not at the start of the campaign. You could have the players come up with an explanation if you want, but don't sweat it.

It's actually in the plan to some degree. E.g., every player will be required to supply an extra piece of character background: "here's the crime of which I was convicted, and I was/wasn't guilty." They'll know where they start. They'll also know they aren't expected to stay there for the entire campaign. I'd rather have the rails be in-game mechanics, not meta-game knowledge, though! That's my last resort.


1.The ''buddy system". Common in prisons. If Bob the druid does escape, all the other PCs will be killed. Even more so if like ''one person escapes, everyone in their cell block is killed": this has the nice effect of having the other prisoners watch each other(because they don't want to die if someone escapes).


Yeah, that's what I'd come up with. I'm waffling on whether it fosters party bonding -- rather than bondage :smallwink: -- by making them work as a unit, or whether it's divisive by making them patrol each other. The party won't be the only ones in their link, so I can always rely on an NPC stool pigeon, so long as they don't find an excuse to kill him/her off?


I would just put shackles on their wrists and/or ankles like the rest of the players. But have one of the guard explain the rules of the jail, that no magic is allow, and those breaking that rules will be punished. If they get caught using magic a first time, cuffs their arms behind their back, gag them and beat them to 1 hp (or 0 if a guard got killed). Caught a second time, a have his face covered by a leather hood to block his sight or throw them in a cell with no light.

I'm incorporating that, definitely. Inmates who behave -- or appear to behave -- get to run around inside. If you're caught casting a spell, you may receive a week-long "hood of shame" punishment, or something analogous. I like it. :smallbiggrin:


The way I'd run this:

- "Hey guys, the campaign concept is that you've been imprisoned somehow until you got to level 3, and then you were forced into servitude. So make level 3 characters, and let's brainstorm everyone's prison backstory events which happened from level 1 to 3."

- Players make level 3 characters; no-escape prison events were backstory, not something they play through; players are asked to come up with concepts and reasons which are harmonious with the campaign, rather than being railroaded into the campaign.

My group will do better with the play time to begin bonding as a party, and will probably enjoy the unusual challenge as well. Trust me to know my players. My only worry is that, knowing my players, someone's going to want to see if they can find a clever way to bust out.


Well, he did specify levels 1-2, were Misty Step is unavalable, so...

I'd also have to ban Eladrin. But then, I had no plans to include them, so....

UPSHOT: Y'all are convincing me that while there's no silver bullet, it can be made to work, particularly for my group. This may actually come together after all! Thanks, all, for the ideas!

[Nifft]

My group will do better with the play time to begin bonding as a party, and will probably enjoy the unusual challenge as well. Trust me to know my players. My only worry is that, knowing my players, someone's going to want to see if they can find a clever way to bust out.

(...)

UPSHOT: Y'all are convincing me that while there's no silver bullet, it can be made to work, particularly for my group. This may actually come together after all! Thanks, all, for the ideas!

Here's an idea:

- When your players figure out a clever way to break out, pay them to also figure out a clever reason why their clever way doesn't actually work.

- Payment will be deferred until level 3 (after they leave prison). Payment will be a Common magic item of some type, one per foiled escape mechanic.

[FrancisBean]

Here's an idea:

- When your players figure out a clever way to break out, pay them to also figure out a clever reason why their clever way doesn't actually work.

- Payment will be deferred until level 3 (after they leave prison). Payment will be a Common magic item of some type, one per foiled escape mechanic.

That's extraordinarily meta-gamey. And might just work. One player in particular -- he'll have a Monk -- will drool at the thought! Thanks, I like it!

[Nifft]

That's extraordinarily meta-gamey. And might just work. One player in particular -- he'll have a Monk -- will drool at the thought! Thanks, I like it!

Glad to help.

You can use this sort of meta-game reward mechanic in other ways, too -- the basic idea is that players can separate from their PCs temporarily to help move the game through certain tropes.

Oviously it requires player buy-in, but if you've got reasonable players who enjoy the campaign then it's a powerful way to harness their cleverness towards a plot-enabling reward (rather than a plot-destroying conflict).

[FrancisBean]

You can use this sort of meta-game reward mechanic in other ways, too -- the basic idea is that players can separate from their PCs temporarily to help move the game through certain tropes.

Oviously it requires player buy-in, but if you've got reasonable players who enjoy the campaign then it's a powerful way to harness their cleverness towards a plot-enabling reward (rather than a plot-destroying conflict).

This is not a concept I generally use in my games. I may have to re-think matters a bit, but it does seem to lead to good conclusions. It's basically Inspiration++. In this case, since the group is supposed to wind up in the service of a corrupt noble who will outfit the group, it just means that she'll provide that gear when the time comes. I'm lucky enough to have a plot which can use the idea really well.

[Kadesh]

Somatic Components can become disabled through broken fingers.

[Keravath]

You might want to consider how secure the prison is and the countermeasures that are in place to prevent magical characters from escaping.

D&D is a world with teleportation, ethereal travel, planar travel, shape changing and disguise magic. Much of these are available at very low level. Even mage hand, prestidigitation and minor illusion could go a long way towards enabling a jail break never mind the capability of higher level spells.

Firebolt (VS), eldritch blast (VS), Shocking grasp (VS), Ray of Frost (VS), Vicious Mockery (V) and so on ... are all damaging cantrips that require the caster to be bound and gagged to prevent them from casting. Low level prison guards would never withstand even a small uprising.

The only practical way to contain characters with access to magic is with some sort of anti-magic environment (prison constructed of some material that blocks access to the weave or whatever the source of magic is in your world or some sort of anti-magic zone).

Outside of that, there would be permanent Alarm cast in various locations along with Glyphs, Detect Magic and other spells that would be triggered by these when they went off.

In addition to those, there would probably also be traps of various sorts designed to ensnare, disable or kill those trying to escape.

Finally, if you really want to keep lower level characters in prison, you cast a Geas on them with the order being that they have to remain in prison. Try to do something contrary to that and take 5d10 damage (average 27.5) which will likely kill most first level characters. Duration is 30 days at level 5, one year with a level 7 or 8 spell slot and permanent with a level 9. That would probably be fairly effective at restraining low level characters without additional defenses .. you wouldn't even need to lock the cells since if they try to leave they die.

[Nifft]

This is not a concept I generally use in my games. I may have to re-think matters a bit, but it does seem to lead to good conclusions. It's basically Inspiration++. In this case, since the group is supposed to wind up in the service of a corrupt noble who will outfit the group, it just means that she'll provide that gear when the time comes. I'm lucky enough to have a plot which can use the idea really well. Yeah that's a good analogy -- it's like Inspiration++, except deferred.

I've used this sort of thing effectively, and for my group the keys were:
- Temporary. Don't ask them to act against their PCs forever. It's fun as a novelty, not a constant.
- Pre-Boarding. Talk to your players ahead of time. Be sure they're on board with the destination before you start the railroad engine.

In this case, that would mean telling them they'll eventually be working for a corrupt noble -- and perhaps have an opportunity to destroy the noble eventually, but not for a while. You might even be able to use this while they're working for the corrupt noble as a reason they don't just kill him (yet), to increase their eventual payout when they do pull a sudden-yet-inevitable.


Somatic Components can become disabled through broken fingers. How about mittens?

[JackPhoenix]

How about mittens?

If you break the fingers enough, you may disable the use of mittens too, but why would you?

[Darth Ultron]

UPSHOT: Y'all are convincing me that while there's no silver bullet, it can be made to work, particularly for my group. This may actually come together after all! Thanks, all, for the ideas!

I'd point out that MAGIC is your sliver bullet.

Consider:

The back scaled dragon born looks over the new prisoners-"Welcome to DeathHold Prison. Your life force is now linked to the Death Orb in the middle of the yard. You will be fine, as long as you stay put. Go more then a couple feet outside the walls...and you die. Have a nice day."

Or "The Shadow Orb in the middle of the yard has just animated your shadow...and made it very hungry. As long as you stay put, it will only eat a little of you a day.....but run, and the shadow will eat you whole. Have a nice day."

Or, to use the Once Upon a Time idea : "Step forward so we can magically remove your heart and place it in the large Crystal Heart in the yard. Now don't worry, you will be fine, as long as you stay need the Crystal Heart...but go do far, and you will die. Have a nice day."

Any of the above are a nice, simple and quick way to prevent any player from just saying ''I escape". And being non standard, not bland by the book magic, they are open to lots of things the players can ''try'' to do to escape. Though the escape will take time and effort.....maybe just enough to get the plot rolling.

[Kane0]

Or, to use the Once Upon a Time idea : "Step forward so we can magically remove your heart and place it in the large Crystal Heart in the yard. Now don't worry, you will be fine, as long as you stay need the Crystal Heart...but go do far, and you will die. Have a nice day."


Hmm, that sounds (http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/spell-compendium--86/heart-of-stone--4693/index.html) familiar (http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/complete-arcane--55/heart-ripper--525/index.html).

[EvilAnagram]

I was actually in a very similar situation: Playing OoTA, the DM wanted to follow the book on how the imprisonment went, but starting us at level 2. I figured out how to break us out within ten minutes, but he kept saying, "You feel like you shouldn't do that," and not letting us break out of the prison.

It's been, what, two or three years since that module came out? I'm still annoyed about it. If your players figure out how to escape a prison, let them. A DM's job is to set up challenges that the players overcome by whatever means they can, not dictate how the players solve a challenge.

If your players like rails, they're going to go with the flow of your plot no matter what. If they don't, don't tie them to the rails or you'll just end up with a trainwreck.

[Nifft]

If you break the fingers enough, you may disable the use of mittens too, but why would you? I have no button, yet I must Like.


I was actually in a very similar situation: Playing OoTA, the DM wanted to follow the book on how the imprisonment went, but starting us at level 2. I figured out how to break us out within ten minutes, but he kept saying, "You feel like you shouldn't do that," and not letting us break out of the prison.

It's been, what, two or three years since that module came out? I'm still annoyed about it. If your players figure out how to escape a prison, let them. A DM's job is to set up challenges that the players overcome by whatever means they can, not dictate how the players solve a challenge.

If your players like rails, they're going to go with the flow of your plot no matter what. If they don't, don't tie them to the rails or you'll just end up with a trainwreck. Mmm. Kinda disagree. I think you can talk to your players in advance about what needs to be railroaded, and by doing this you can get people on board who would otherwise be annoyed.

I do agree that unexpected railroading can be quite frustrating.

No experience with that module so I have no opinion on whether the PCs should have been allowed to escape or not.

[FrancisBean]

I was actually in a very similar situation: Playing OoTA, the DM wanted to follow the book on how the imprisonment went, but starting us at level 2. I figured out how to break us out within ten minutes, but he kept saying, "You feel like you shouldn't do that," and not letting us break out of the prison.

It's been, what, two or three years since that module came out? I'm still annoyed about it. If your players figure out how to escape a prison, let them. A DM's job is to set up challenges that the players overcome by whatever means they can, not dictate how the players solve a challenge.

If your players like rails, they're going to go with the flow of your plot no matter what. If they don't, don't tie them to the rails or you'll just end up with a trainwreck.

Trust me to know my players. With my group, obtrusive rails -- things which aren't rooted in the world, but which are meta-game -- tend not to sit well. If the rails are rooted in the world, in the way it works, they'll dive in and work the problem.

I get it, I really do. You wouldn't do well with this sort of plot, and I wouldn't write it for someone like you. But I also know my group, and they like a good story. A good story requires that they can immerse themselves, that the world feel "real," that the problems they face are real and not a railroad. That means that the prison boundaries have to be well-considered and solid rather than "that didn't work because, um, sunspots, yeah, sunspots!" And that's exactly why I asked for advice, because I had trouble coming up with ways to make it all work within the world.

Meanwhile, if they just escaped the prison, and weren't promptly re-captured, the whole plot goes down the drain and I'm ad-libbing for the rest of the campaign. It wouldn't be fun for anybody involved. That's the real trainwreck here.

[Unoriginal]

Something else you should take into account: why would the jailers let the prisoners meet and congregate?

If the authorities are worried about spellcasters escaping, it's more likely to be an old-style gaol where prisoners are kept packed in their one cells 24/7, the only comfort coming from bribes to the jailers, rather than something like a modern-day penitenciary

[Asmotherion]

Somatic Components can become disabled through broken fingers.
This is barbaric. Why not cut off the Martial's thumbs so they won't be able to handle swords wile you're at it? :/

[Kadesh]

This is barbaric. Why not cut off the Martial's thumbs so they won't be able to handle swords wile you're at it? :/

Solid idea if you have a 13th level cleric knocking about to to make them useful afterwords.

[Sigreid]

When it comes to imprisoning spellcasters you could go with the route they used with royalty in Europe. Confine them, but in sufficient comfort that they dont try to leave.

[EvilAnagram]

Trust me to know my players. With my group, obtrusive rails -- things which aren't rooted in the world, but which are meta-game -- tend not to sit well. If the rails are rooted in the world, in the way it works, they'll dive in and work the problem.

I get it, I really do. You wouldn't do well with this sort of plot, and I wouldn't write it for someone like you. But I also know my group, and they like a good story. A good story requires that they can immerse themselves, that the world feel "real," that the problems they face are real and not a railroad. That means that the prison boundaries have to be well-considered and solid rather than "that didn't work because, um, sunspots, yeah, sunspots!" And that's exactly why I asked for advice, because I had trouble coming up with ways to make it all work within the world.

Meanwhile, if they just escaped the prison, and weren't promptly re-captured, the whole plot goes down the drain and I'm ad-libbing for the rest of the campaign. It wouldn't be fun for anybody involved. That's the real trainwreck here.

I understand what you're saying, and I'm sure you know your players well, but the problem is that the plot your envisioning isn't working while on rails. You are stuck focusing on how this prisoner can connect the party to the noble, when there doesn't need to be a linear path from the prison to the nobleman.

This solution here is to create multiple channels that can final your players to the noble. If they make it outside by themselves, let one of them meet up with an old acquaintance who can connect them to the noble. Have a corrupt watchman bring them to the noble. Have the noble seek them out after hearing about their daring escape. There are many paths through the forest.

[Asmotherion]

Solid idea if you have a 13th level cleric knocking about to to make them useful afterwords.

I am divided between sadistic satisfaction and player discomfort, not sure how to feel about this. XD


When it comes to imprisoning spellcasters you could go with the route they used with royalty in Europe. Confine them, but in sufficient comfort that they dont try to leave.

Talking about sadism, how about how they imprisoned actual spellcasters in europe? 0.o You know, the Iron Maiden... and I don't mean the band.

[Nifft]

actual spellcasters in europe?

I demand that you provide enough information to independently confirm that they were actually casting spells.

Specifically I want enough info to cast actual spells myself.

Purely for science.

[Unoriginal]

You know, the Iron Maiden... and I don't mean the band.

That was a Renaissance fabrication.

[EggKookoo]

I skimmed the thread but didn't see it (apologies if I missed it), but why are the PCs in prison in the first place?

Is there a way to get them to want to stay there, like they're undercover, or searching for someone or something, or hiding from someone? Make it so that while they could escape, they really don't want to -- of their own accord, no railroading. Just circumstances.

[Asmotherion]

I demand that you provide enough information to independently confirm that they were actually casting spells.

Specifically I want enough info to cast actual spells myself.

Purely for science.
I can neither confirm nor deny anything. People would be furious at me if I did. Among other creatures :P


That was a Renaissance fabrication.

I don't know who invented it, but Rock/Metal Music and BDSM definitelly were the ones who made it popular and sexy. Not necesserally in that order.

[Unoriginal]

I can neither confirm nor deny anything. People would be furious at me if I did. Among other creatures :P



I don't know who invented it, but Rock/Metal Music and BDSM definitelly were the ones who made it popular and sexy. Not necesserally in that order.

...pretty sure BDSM didn't do that. Hentai, maybe.

[FrancisBean]

I skimmed the thread but didn't see it (apologies if I missed it), but why are the PCs in prison in the first place?

The campaign starts there -- I'm also requiring them to add a piece of character background: "What was your crime? Were you actually guilty?" It already has one of the potential players excited enough to be concocting a manslaughter charge, and a character who won't accept responsibility for her actions. "It wasn't my fault, I didn't kill him! OK, yeah, I stole his XYZ Item*, but how was I to know it'd get him killed? The world is being unfair to me! I don't belong in prison!!"

* Think in terms of a Sharn Feather Token -- the player doesn't have the details worked out yet, but that's the sort of thing she's thinking.

[Blacky the Blackball]

I was actually in a very similar situation: Playing OoTA, the DM wanted to follow the book on how the imprisonment went, but starting us at level 2. I figured out how to break us out within ten minutes, but he kept saying, "You feel like you shouldn't do that," and not letting us break out of the prison.

It's been, what, two or three years since that module came out? I'm still annoyed about it. If your players figure out how to escape a prison, let them. A DM's job is to set up challenges that the players overcome by whatever means they can, not dictate how the players solve a challenge.

If your players like rails, they're going to go with the flow of your plot no matter what. If they don't, don't tie them to the rails or you'll just end up with a trainwreck.

What's particularly weird about that is that the whole point of OotA is that breaking out of the imprisonment is supposed to be the first thing that happens in the campaign!

The adventure gives two different events that happen separately or together during the players' imprisonment which might help them escape (no details because I don't want to spoil it), but does emphasise that these aren't the only way the PCs can escape and that it's totally fine if they do it themselves.

I guess your DM particularly wanted the events to happen, and therefore nixed any plan that might let the characters escape without them.

(Personally, I just started the OotA campaign with my group last night - and the players were asking about trying different escape methods before I'd even finished explaining the situation they'd found themselves in. However, I started actual play with the events happening "One day has been much like another since you got here, but today something unexpected has just happened..." and literally within seconds of play starting the PCs were already improvising an escape.)

[holywhippet]

Some ideas occur to me:

1) Have the prison be in an ancient magical fortress that was enchanted to fly very high up in the sky. Patrolling around the fortress are large trained attack birds. Even if you can shapeshift into a form that can fly out the birds will attack you. Even if you manage to reach the ground it is flying above a barren wasteland so you have no hope of finding food or water.

2) Have the prison be inside of a magical pocket dimension. Even if you get outside there is nothing but infinite emptiness beyond the prison. The only way out is the specifically designed teleporter which is heavily guarded.

3) Set up alarms which ring when they detect any magic being used including slamming down bulkheads so you can't simply cast and run.

4) I don't know if they are in 5th edition yet but you could have some of these living in the prison: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Balhiir Whenever someone casts a spell they simply eat it.

[Asmotherion]

...pretty sure BDSM didn't do that. Hentai, maybe.
Without getting into too much detail, there are some variations of the original model that are both safer to use, and incredibly sexy... at least if you're into that stuff.

[Tanarii]

However, I started actual play with the events happening "One day has been much like another since you got here, but today something unexpected has just happened..." and literally within seconds of play starting the PCs were already improvising an escape.)
Not surprising. All players know what theyre "supposed" to be doing if their PCs are captured. Especially if yhe campaign opens that way.

Some DMs that dont get it, and try to keep PCs imprisoned.

I meam if youre running a 'realistic' Caw setting, they very well might die in the attempt. But unless youre running the kind pf campaign where you send in another grpup of PCs to rescue the first (open table), no table gives up and stops playing the first group and rolls up replacements without at least an attempt.

[Sigreid]

Back on OT, how about a poison that they have to get an antidote every day or it kicks in. Escape or misbehave, no antidote.

[Kane0]

Alternatively, place the prison somewhere isolated where going outside racks up the exhaustion until PCs pass out and are easily retrieved.

[FrancisBean]

Alternatively, place the prison somewhere isolated where going outside racks up the exhaustion until PCs pass out and are easily retrieved.

It would be convenient -- albeit not necessary -- to have the prison in or near the major city of the continent. The suggestions I'm seeing are leading me toward putting it on a harbor island like the Boston harbor islands. (A great place to camp, if you've never been -- but a miserable place to ride out a storm. Been there / Done that / Got the T-Shirt.)

For those who continue to suggest that railroads are universally bad, and insist on telling me I'm asking the wrong question, you're really not being productive. I know my group. They'll be OK with this if it's presented right, and what setting is more restrictive than a prison? We're just not going to agree on the value of limited early-level rails, and you're wasting your efforts telling me my plot plan is wrong. Let's just agree not to play at the same table, OK? The forum is better off that way.

[holywhippet]

Back on OT, how about a poison that they have to get an antidote every day or it kicks in. Escape or misbehave, no antidote.

I think it was the old PC game No One Lives Forever where an old ninja lady gives the advice: give your husband poison as he goes out to work each day then give him the antidote when he gets home.

That could work - give them some kind of poison as they leave their cell each day and the antidote when they go back in.

[th3g0dc0mp13x]

A long term poison with the antidote given daily. It's not lethal but they don't know that. Every day without it they gain a level of exhaustion, and can't regain it until they take the antidote or make a dc15 con save. Maxed out at exhaustion 4.

[leogobsin]

It would be convenient -- albeit not necessary -- to have the prison in or near the major city of the continent. The suggestions I'm seeing are leading me toward putting it on a harbor island like the Boston harbor islands. (A great place to camp, if you've never been -- but a miserable place to ride out a storm. Been there / Done that / Got the T-Shirt.)


I really think this is the way to go. Means players can still totally use all or at least most of their abilities for whatever shenanigans they get up to in the prison but nothing they've got at 2nd or 3rd level is enough to actually get them away from the prison. To add some details: maybe there's limited transportation to and from the island; a ship comes once a month or something bringing supplies and new prisoners, so then the person who breaks them out either has a plan around hijacking the ship or has a friend on the outside who is bringing their own ship in secret to get people away.

[Kane0]

Plan C, take control of the prison :tongue: