NPC Generation

[Drakevarg]

Instead of the DMG rules for NPC generation (which I've always found a bit messy) I instead use ranked NPC trees, in a manner similar to games like Mount&Blade or Battle for Wesnoth. For the most part this works out pretty well for me and is kinda fun to build. However, a problem emerges when it comes time for me to generate them for a settlement. My system, as cited verbatim from my own notes:


Demographics
Using a variation on the system from the DMG, each NPC tree is calculated seperately from the top down based on the settlement tier, with each NPC generating 1d4+1 NPCs of the rank below them. Based on tier:



Settlement
Max Rank


T1 - Hamlet
Rank 2


T2 - Village
Rank 3


T3 - Small Town
Rank 3


T4 - Large Town
Rank 4


T5 - Small City
Rank 4


T6 - Large City
Rank 5


T7 - Metropolis
Rank 5 (x1d4+1)



NPC trees that cap prior to the max ranks generate as if they did (simply dump the “imaginary” ranks afterwards). Multiply the results by the same population multiplier as the settlement itself (the d10 roll).

So for an example settlement of, say, a village with 600 people, you'd get:

6 Rank 3
21 Rank 2 (6d4+6)
68 Rank 1 (21d4+21)

...repeated for every NPC tree present within the settlement. Taken in isolation, this seems fine. The problem arises in that for this village of 600 people, there will always be 6 Rank 3 NPCs for every tree that generates within it. And all NPC trees will be equally represented. As many cavalry as infantry, as many hunters as scholars. I've been trying to figure out a solution to both problems, which so far eludes me. The first obvious fix is to change the top tier NPCs from being (= population multiplier) to being (1d4+1 x population multiplier). The problem is that this increases the total number of NPCs generated by a significant amount, which could easily outstrip the alleged population of the town from which the NPCS are spawned in the first place.

What I want to do, which I'm open to suggestions for, is set up a system in which certain NPC trees will be more prominently represented than others, customizable on a per-settlement basis. For example a primary tree might produce NPCs for a village up to rank 3, while a secondary tree might only produce NPCs up to rank 2. This would allow for much more varied populations and give me more control over the characterization of a settlement. The only thing I haven't figured out yet is by what means to accomplish this, which I thought I'd try outsourcing a bit.

Thoughts?

[Hand_of_Vecna]

If I'm reading this right it seems like your goal is to have a kind of an "ecology" of NPCs with there being enough lower level NPCs to support the higher level ones. This is logical, but I think your approaching it from the wrong direction a bottom up approach would work better.

Start with a population and decide what portion of the population has a given role. Let's use men at arms as that's an obvious one. Once you have that number assume that some fraction are rank 2 or higher.

Say we have 100 men at arms, half are rank 1 irregular militia while half are everything else. Out of the Rank 2 and ups half are just veteran's equipped similarly to the green troops, but better trained and mixed in with them. This leaves 25 to control the 75 infantry we'll need about 10 minor leaders these could be rank 2's with better equipment and above average intelligence. This leaves 14 Rank 3's to be a small cavalry unit or advanced scouts, an elite unit or spread out as officers with the smart rank 2s being more like NCOs and leaves a single rank 4 to be the overall leader.

Basically the idea is bottom up not too down. You need a certain number of soldiers to justify having a general. Also, not every
craft in every city will have the same structure pyramid shape. A traditional Master>Journeyman>Apprentice structure probably has a limit not much above 1>2>4 if they are expected to give hands on teaching on a day to day basis in addition to supervising.

[Seto]

I'm sorry that I don't have anything of value to add to your idea, but I'm here to say I'm happy to meet another Battle for Wesnoth player :smallwink: It's one of the games that I always go back to and play for a month every couple of years, and it's gotten to be one of my gaming references.

[liquidformat]

Could you give us a couple examples of the ranks? I am unsure what levels go with each rank so it is making it hard to follow.

Anyways here are a few thoughts that should be considered.

1) What about having groupings like military rank, commercial rank, magical rank and so on rather than just one general rank and stating every single industry/class is equally represented? For example lets take Fort Bradley and Sunnyvale; they are both considered villages with 900 people; however, Fort Bradley is primarily a military outpost at the outskirts of a wild mountain range with little more than a tavern and general store for people traveling through the area. So it has a military rank of 3, a commercial rank of 1, and a magic rank of 2. Whereas, Sunnyvale is an agrarian village in the heart of the country with very few threats around. It has a Commercial Rank of 4 a military rank of 1, and a magic rank of 0.

2) Magical gish troops and cavalry are supposed to be much more rare than standard men at arms so make your trees accordingly. For example if Rank 3 means I have X+5 level 5 warriors for men at arms, where as for gish troops it means I have x/5 level 5 duskblades, and for cavalry it means I have x/3 level 5 paladins.

3) if you really want to randomize what each settlement is like you can use your table and the groupings from comment 1 and roll dice or something to determine the demographic of each town.

[Drakevarg]

If I'm reading this right it seems like your goal is to have a kind of an "ecology" of NPCs with there being enough lower level NPCs to support the higher level ones. This is logical, but I think your approaching it from the wrong direction a bottom up approach would work better.

Start with a population and decide what portion of the population has a given role. Let's use men at arms as that's an obvious one. Once you have that number assume that some fraction are rank 2 or higher.

Say we have 100 men at arms, half are rank 1 irregular militia while half are everything else. Out of the Rank 2 and ups half are just veteran's equipped similarly to the green troops, but better trained and mixed in with them. This leaves 25 to control the 75 infantry we'll need about 10 minor leaders these could be rank 2's with better equipment and above average intelligence. This leaves 14 Rank 3's to be a small cavalry unit or advanced scouts, an elite unit or spread out as officers with the smart rank 2s being more like NCOs and leaves a single rank 4 to be the overall leader.

Basically the idea is bottom up not too down. You need a certain number of soldiers to justify having a general. Also, not every
craft in every city will have the same structure pyramid shape. A traditional Master>Journeyman>Apprentice structure probably has a limit not much above 1>2>4 if they are expected to give hands on teaching on a day to day basis in addition to supervising.

This is essentially how I was set up originally, but I changed it because top-down allows for more flexible ratios.

When the top is defined by the bottom, progression is linear; every 5 or 10 NPCs of Rank X produces 1 NPC of Rank X+1. This leads to very rigidly defined pyramids. In contrast, when going from the top down I can a) guarantee that an NPC of Rank X is available when I need it, and b) dynamically define the number of NPCs of Rank X-1. Except for defining the number of the top-ranked NPCs in the first place, it's a lot more versatile.


Could you give us a couple examples of the ranks? I am unsure what levels go with each rank so it is making it hard to follow.

NPCs level up in ranks with each new feat. Originally it was every odd-numbered level but I decided that going by feats allowed greater definition and apparent growth between ranks, rather than Rank 3 just being "Rank 2, but with bigger numbers." So ranks are as follows:

Rank 1 = Level 1
Rank 2 = Level 3
Rank 3 = Level 6
Rank 4 = Level 9
Rank 5 = Level 12

Worth noting in my setting is that because life in general is more dangerous (a spider the size of a cat is considered a household pest), basically everyone is of at least Level 1. Level 3 is considered the baseline for a career combatant.


Anyways here are a few thoughts that should be considered.

1) What about having groupings like military rank, commercial rank, magical rank and so on rather than just one general rank and stating every single industry/class is equally represented? For example lets take Fort Bradley and Sunnyvale; they are both considered villages with 900 people; however, Fort Bradley is primarily a military outpost at the outskirts of a wild mountain range with little more than a tavern and general store for people traveling through the area. So it has a military rank of 3, a commercial rank of 1, and a magic rank of 2. Whereas, Sunnyvale is an agrarian village in the heart of the country with very few threats around. It has a Commercial Rank of 4 a military rank of 1, and a magic rank of 0.

Interesting idea, I'd have to play around with it for a while to see how well it works.


2) Magical gish troops and cavalry are supposed to be much more rare than standard men at arms so make your trees accordingly. For example if Rank 3 means I have X+5 level 5 warriors for men at arms, where as for gish troops it means I have x/5 level 5 duskblades, and for cavalry it means I have x/3 level 5 paladins.

Cavalry in general tend to be higher-level than infantry, so the lowest-leveled NPCs in their trees would either be squires or just pooled in with the common militia, which helps control their numbers. Elite troops as well (usually defined as having a prestige class or something) don't even have Rank 1 entries and so also have controlled populations.


3) if you really want to randomize what each settlement is like you can use your table and the groupings from comment 1 and roll dice or something to determine the demographic of each town.

I would say I prefer customizable over randomized, but a degree of structured randomness is good for keeping things organic.

[liquidformat]

Rank 1 = Level 1
Rank 2 = Level 3
Rank 3 = Level 6
Rank 4 = Level 9
Rank 5 = Level 12
.
.
.
I would say I prefer customizable over randomized, but a degree of structured randomness is good for keeping things organic.

That is a really cool way to setup levels, I like it!

Also I think customized and and randomized have their benefits, also if you set it up right it allows you to heavily customize when you are inspired and when you aren't you can randomize. Heck the randomization might even help bring inspiration for the settlement. Over all it is a cool idea.

[Drakevarg]

Lacking any better ideas, I've been chewing on the suggestion of giving settlements varying ranks for different kinds of NPCs. So far I've come up with a set of categories I'm relatively satisfied with:

Military - Obvious stuff: Archers, infantry, cavalry, etc.
Paramilitary - Jobs that aren't necessarily intrinsically tied to armed conflict, but are combat-related; hunters, sailors, beast-tamers, etc.
Criminal - Thieves, bandits, pirates, etc.
Artisans - Alchemists, smiths, engineers. People with specialized skill or knowledge.
Laborers - Miners, lumberjacks, etc. In a world of monsters, people who work in caves or forests for a living would need to be able to defend themselves.

Not entirely sure what to do next. I thought of a straightforward approach at first - each settlement gets 3 points per settlement tier (so a village would have 6 points and a metropolis gets 21), which are then spent among the above categories.

Now, an issue I have with this approach (aside from not being entirely sure as what to do with these ranks once I have them), is that it's a bit too free-form. One could easily wind up with a settlement with more artisans than laborers, or something similarly nonsensical. What I'd like to figure out is some kind of dependent system which requires roles to be in proportion to their demand in society. Admittedly, in a world where virtually everyone is at least some degree of combatant this is slightly jumbled, but some options just intuitively seem off.

Of course, I may be asking more from a system like this than it can actually deliver, but it's a work in progress obviously.

Edit: Or, I could just adapt this system (https://theangrygm.com/schrodinger-chekhov-samus/) which I filed away in my favorites years ago and mostly forgot about.