Caster focused cleric (D&D 3.5)

[Illfunseeker]

Hi all, I new to the forums so please let know if there somewhere else I need to post this or older thread that would help.

I'm trying to build a primary casting build cleric. We playing a dm created campaign. The background info is the game started at level 1.* I joined the game at level 5 with a cleric of pelor. My current build is cleric 5, RS 5 at level 10 as the group at time need healer horribly bad. The group that was in the campaign is being replaced. I'm the only returning character as story wise my cleric will have the information for it.

The new group will start at lvl 8 and as a cleric(boneknight gish build), druid wildshape/summoner build, a sorcerer primary blast build, and a rogue. The group is leaning very heavily on the combat side of things. Do to some of the group being new, the DM is limiting it to core books, PHB, MM, DMG, Other sources is by DM approval, however at level 10 the DM is allowing a rebuilding once players get a feel for the game. My cleric will be brought in once they get to level 10 and a certain point in the story.

Here is my issue, with the group being melee combat heavy, I'm looking to specialized in spell casting/research because we missing a wizard. I'm looking to maximize my casting abilities. The DM also does not care about the power of the build, but the balance between the party.

My build is human, classes cleric 5, RSoP 5, str 12, Dex 11, 18 con 18, int 14, wis 18, cha 16, feats are extended spell, extra turning, improved initiative, dmm extended spell, domains are sun and healing and glory. I'm looking at divine spell power, quicken spell, spell penetration.

[Troacctid]

How much of this build is locked in, exactly?

[Nifft]

One very blatant caster-not-melee Cleric option is the Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) from Unearthed Arcana (and the SRD, obviously).

Just don't prepare Divine Power and you're solidly behind in combat, but ahead in Domains and Knowledge skills (which the group seems to lack), and you're a Cleric so you're good at casting.

If you take the Travel domain, you can also pick up Track, and be the party's wilderness navigator -- unless the Druid picked up Track, of course.

Just put all 10 levels into Cloistered Cleric, have a huge number of skills + the Lore class feature to dig into other plot hooks, pick Domains that scale with your class level (e.g. Travel) or give you access to awesome Wizard spells (e.g. Travel) or give you a new skill (e.g. Travel) -- have I mentioned that one excellent Domain to choose might be Travel?


Other useful domains include:

- Good - this is the only way to grant yourself access to Holy Smite, which you need to craft Holy weapons. If your antagonists include a lot of fiends & undead, this might be a great domain.

- Animal - this gets you access to Shapechange at level 17; before that it's kinda awful. Highly rated because of that one spell.

- Trickery - Disguise Self, Invisibility, and Confusion are all good spells. Then at high levels you get Polymorph Any Object and Time Stop, both of which are awesome spells. The skills are nice, too.

- Magic domain gets you access to all Wizard wands, which might be useful if you find so many of those that the Sorcerer and Rogue can't use all of them. So probably not that useful. The spells are not great -- you have access to Identify from your extra Cloistered Cleric spells known, for example.

- The elemental domains (Air, Earth, Fire, Water) might be useful if you expect to Turn or Rebuke creatures with the relevant subtypes. The spells aren't terrible, but they're not that great either.

[Kayblis]

Instead of picking Extend and DMM:Extend, which are great for low level play, instead pick Quicken and DMM:Quicken, as by lv 10 you'll have enough duration to not care about it even without Extending. Having extra spells in a round, even if it's a 2/day quicken, is a game changer when the group gets into a bad situation.

You already have Extra Spell Turning, so any way to get a second Turning pool can benefit from that - talk with your DM to see if you can use DMM feats with other turning pools like the Fire Domain. If not, get Nightsticks(an item that gives +4 turn attempts). Use it to squeeze one more Quicken spell per day if possible.

Casting as a Cleric is simple - you either buff yourself and allies to wreck stuff, or buff and heal your allies to wreck stuff by proxy. You don't have the free feats to be a summoner, but remember that you can create small animals with a 1st level spell to do many out-of-combat things for you. Being a Cloystered Cleric as cited above is a great idea if you want to be away from the frontlines, as it gives you many skillpoints(which your team lacks) and a lot of Knowledge skills(which your plot needs).

[Eldariel]

Let's see. That looks fine though as said, DMM: Quicken is where it's at. If you're a coreish Cleric caster I'd look into Summon spells so I do recommend getting Augment Summoning. They expand your list in a myriad of ways and really pick off around Summon Monster V/VI. Check Summoner's Desk Reference (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255219-The-Summoner-s-Desk-Reference-D-amp-D-3-5). They give you access to a lot of spell-likes you might not get otherwise (starting from Stinking Cloud on level 3 in Dretch). Other than that, well, it's mostly a matter of spell preparation. Spell Compendium or Complete Divine would empower a caster Cleric a lot too.

Far as domains go, I'd look into Travel and Trickery. Those are probably the best "arcane Cleric" domains in Core with spells like Invisibility, Confusion, Fly, Teleport, etc. Things Cleric misses out on that have a huge impact on the game. Though if Spell Compendium is allowed, you can just take the Spell-domain instead; even levels behind, access to all level 1-2 arcane spells from a level 3 slot is pretty awesome. You could even get Spontaneous Domain Casting [Player's Handbook II] into it.


For a caster Cleric, channeling negative energy is often superior to positive. Enables Animate Dead and Rebuke Undead to have some minions around and all the evil choices in Summons, which tend to have offensive benefits. Chaotic Neutral is a pretty nice alignment for a summoning caster Cleric, offering both Bralani Eladrin and Dretch for instance.

Depending on the sources, any spells on this list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514702-good-cleric-spells&p=21691649&postcount=5#post21691649) are great additions for a caster Cleric. Frostburn as a whole is a huge powerhouse for them, with Ice Slick, Conjure Ice Beast and company.

[Illfunseeker]

As to what of the build is locked in, is the ability scores, deity and the classes. However the DM might allow the classes to be rebuild if he feel it will be balanced with the party. I don't think the DM would allow to use the travel domain do to my deity being pelor however I will look into the fire domain.

Does extra turning stack with all pools of turning or do you have to take the feat for each pool?

I have talked to the DM about dmm quicken, and he is hesitant to allow it because he want the party to be balanced.

Some background on the DM, is not a hold your hand type. He trys to create incounters that even when done right, the party uses 25-50% of resources. He is very big on balance between party members. Since there is new players in the group, he watching each build closely.

[bean illus]

If your DM is cautious about balance with new players then you might not need to think about DMM for a while, either way.

Cloistered cleric is a super fun class to play. The lack of armor and BAB would absolutely force you to not melee as much, but the skill access is fun, and needed if no one else has it.

It also prc's well directly into a domain collector, if your DM lightens up as the game goes on. Which is fun, and opens up your Spell access.

[Cypheros]

DM here.

Most of the players have played in 2 or 3 different campaigns so far. Most of their builds tend to be on the weak side. However, as a player, I have a bit of a reputation for being a min/maxer...so they decided to follow suit for my campaign. Most of these builds are decently optimized, considering the sources I have permitted.

I’m starting these guys off at 8 (where the last group ended), and at 10th there will be an opportunity to rebuild characters. *Most* character options can be rebuilt (feats, spells, etc), some can’t (class, ability scores, etc). Also, when the rebuild process happens, more sources become available without approval. Anything outside of those permitted sources can still be used, if approved.

For this cleric...by the time this character comes back into the game, the rest of the players should be grizzled vets who know how to play...or extremely tired of dying if they are slow learners.

Hope that helps.



ETA: lot of good info in here. Thanks.

[Fizban]

If you want advice on how to build a character to fit in with the power level of a given party, if that's the most important thing. . . we kinda need to actually know what that party is. In detail.


I'm looking to specialized in spell casting/research because we missing a wizard. I'm looking to maximize my casting abilities.
"Casting abilities" is not a specific goal. Acting as a wizard replacement sounds like a goal, but what that means depends entirely on what you think a wizard is supposed to do, which is probably different from what I think a wizard is supposed to do. What does "research" mean?- do you go to libraries in-game to research things, do you mean knowledge checks for monster identification, do you mean spell research specifically (something which is extremely easy and never necessary)?

[Troacctid]

Okay, so I'd definitely switch to cloistered cleric if possible—it's all upside and fits great with what you want to do. And if you're looking to be a wizard replacement, I would actually recommend the Magic domain, if available. That way you can sling around wands and scrolls of the wizard spells your party needs. If that's not possible, then consider the Divine Magician variant instead of a domain. Normally I'd recommend the Arcane Disciple variant from Dragon Magazine for a case like this, but it doesn't get domains, so it's not a combo with Radiant Servant of Pelor.

The other ACFs I'd be looking at are Spontaneous Restoration from Dungeonscape, which replaces a domain power in order to cast restoration spells spontaneously; Destroy Undead from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, which essentially gives you the 8th level Radiant Servant ability instead of normal turning, but only costs 1 turning attempt; True Daylight, also from Ravenloft, which replaces a domain power in exchange for the ability to turn your daylight spell into actual vampire-slaying daylight; and Positive Healing, again from Ravenloft, which replaces a domain power and allows you to spend a turning attempt to gain fast healing 2 for 5 rounds. The reason I suggest so many replacements for your domain powers is because your domains' powers kinda suck. IMO Spontaneous Restoration and Positive Healing are better Healing domain powers, True Daylight is a better Sun domain power, and Destroy Undead...well, I don't know if it's better than turning, but it's certainly much easier to use and I personally like it better.

For feats, I'd be looking at Imbued Healing, Touch of Healing, Summon Elemental, Fiery Burst, and Craft Wondrous Item. DMM Quicken is also good.

[Illfunseeker]

Thanks, I will look into replacing my domain power and into the feats you suggested as well.