Do Sorlocks need Resilient (Con/Wis)?

[Expected]

Do Sorlocks, in particular, need Resilient (Wis)? Compared to pure classes, they'd have less ASI's and would have to be highly selective with their feat choices. What do you think?

[Corran]

I think this is a trick question, as it precludes the possibility of starting warlock for the wisdom save proficiency and taking resilient con which offers a boost in constitution instead of wisdom. :smalltongue:

[Expected]

I think this is a trick question, as it precludes the possibility of starting warlock for the wisdom save proficiency and taking resilient con which offers a boost in constitution instead of wisdom. :smalltongue:

What if the PC is starting Sorcerer for Con saves? Would it be better to start Warlock for Wis saves? I had just assumed that Sorcerer was better to start in.

[Talyn]

As far I see it, the only people who don't need Resilient (Con) are people who start with CON save proficiency at 1st level. Everyone else needs Resilient (Con), no exceptions.

[Expected]

As far I see it, the only people who don't need Resilient (Con) are people who start with CON save proficiency at 1st level. Everyone else needs Resilient (Con), no exceptions.

What about Resilient (Wis)?

[Keravath]

Proficiency in con saves and wis saves is very useful since many of the more nasty spells are either con or wis based. Dex spells tend to be more related to area of effect damage and other similar effects.

In addition, con saves play a very big role in concentration checks for maintaining spells. I'd say for this reason alone it is almost mandatory for most spell casters since even the back line can't avoid getting hit at least once in a while.

At the moment I have both a bard/warlock and a sorcerer/warlock multiclasses and although it felt a bit boring I eventually started both as variant humans with resilient con and I haven't regretted it even though there are a lot of interesting feats or races I could have chosen. In both cases the con save proficiency has played a role in both saves and concentration checks. However, neither character has encountered many situations requiring wisdom saves so if I was going to give one up it would be wisdom save proficiency over constitution.

[Lunali]

What if the PC is starting Sorcerer for Con saves? Would it be better to start Warlock for Wis saves? I had just assumed that Sorcerer was better to start in.

Warlock gets better starting skill selection and armor, along with a larger starting hit die. If you weren't going to take resilient, sorc might be a good choice for concentration checks but if you are, warlock wins in pretty much every way.

[Expected]

Warlock gets better starting skill selection and armor, along with a larger starting hit die. If you weren't going to take resilient, sorc might be a good choice for concentration checks but if you are, warlock wins in pretty much every way.

I will definitely get proficiency in Con saves then. Instead of starting as a Sorcerer, I'm going to start as a Warlock and take Res (Con). For ability scores, is 8-14-15-10-12-17 or 10-14-15-8-12-17 better? I'm not sure whether to dump Str or Int. I'm thinking about allocating the 2 points into Int to protect against Intellect Devourers. Which array is better? I will be going Hexblade Warlock to don medium armor, hence the 14 Dex.

[Asmotherion]

Need? Depends on the kind of game and DM you've got. If your DM is a Fun of Wisdom Save spells (and runs a lot of Spellcasters in general), yes, you'll need it.

I've played Sorlocks with just a +2 on Wisdom and survived to tell the tale. Overall, a good DM will target you occasionally on your weak spot, but not all the time. If they overdo it, to the point that your character feels weak for it, it means it's time for this feat.

A rule of thumb when playing a Sorlock (perhaps with every character, but for me, it's especially true for the Sorlock) is, as you level up, the Story and Tone of the Adventure will tell you what are the right Spells, Evocations and Feats to take; You have your initial pack of EB and some other tricks which represent your backstory, and the rest comes as the story develops. This can end up in very different Sorlocks every time you play this class combination.

[Specter]

'Need'? No.
'Want'? Yes.

Basically if you plan on making a living out of concentration spells, it's just a matter of when you'll take Resilient (CON), not if. But you can avoid those spells in combat if you don't have room for feats.

[Corran]

What about Resilient (Wis)?
If you are playing a sorlock, you are probably the main dpr of your group.

There are some factors that need to be mentioned here.
How much does your party rely on your sorlock's ranged dpr to win battles?
What can the party do to protect you against disabling effects, or to cancel them if your sorlock is affected in such a way?

Usually, it is best for everyone, if you at the very least for a good first line of defense against effects that target your wisdom saves and that can shut you down (fear, paralysis, charm, etc), spend an ASI (on a SAD build) to cover such a weak point. It is very much worth it IMO.

Edit: But if you are to spend a feat to get resilient, then take it for CON if you have the luxury of choosing.

[Ganymede]

No character needs Resilient (Con). People are just overly paranoid about losing concentration on their spells.

[Corran]

No character needs Resilient (Con). People are just overly paranoid about losing concentration on their spells.
I wish all classes were so well designed that they could stand equally good in a featless game, but this is wishful thinking. To mention one rather easy example, a player of a twf ranger who wants his character to use hunter's mark (during combat) would disagree with your assessment.

[Beelzebubba]

The most effective Warlocks I see tend to hold down one combat-defining Concentration spell, while blasting away with Eldritch Blast. With the number of spells they're limited to, Resilient - or Combat Casting for a Hexblade - is a great way to get the most bang-for-buck for that style.

If you're the type to use Blink or Thunder Step or other spells that don't require Concentration, or provide protection, then it's less necessary, and boosting Charisma gives you a lot more at earlier levels - higher save DC, better skills, more damage with some invocations, etc.

I only consider it a 'feat tax' if there are no other casters to take the heat off, and/or the party number is small with no 'area control' abilities, and/or the DM builds combat within huge open spaces with little to no cover, etcetera - it all factors in.

So, it's not a given, unless you have been failing those checks consistently already.