Theoretical Question...How Good is this?

[SangoProduction]

As we know, in order to do anything more than "I swing my sword" in martial combat, it takes so much investment that you must pour your entire build in to it. So much so that if you want to affectionately hug those mean goblins, you will be able to do jack all, other than affectionately hug goblins. Not even throw sand in their eyes. Which...is like.... a technique passed on through the ages and must be meticulously perfected through centuries of training.

Anyway...I found this in Spheres of Power.


Strike (rally)
You may spend a spell point to rally an ally, allowing them to use a combat maneuver (but not an escape check or grapple) on an enemy they threaten. The combat maneuver does not provoke an attack of opportunity, and receives a morale bonus to CMB equal to your caster level.

So, basically this reads as: "As a swift/immediate action, spend a spell point (spell slot) to have an ally use a combat maneuver off turn (without need of using their normal action). They don't provoke, and gain your Caster Level as a bonus."

So...that's cool. At level 2, this is equivalent to all of the Improved [Combat Maneuver] feats. At level 4, it's got the same bonus as having all of the Greater [Combat Maneuver] feats...but doesn't have the generally very specific effects of them. So, even using the Elephant in the Room rules, that's worth about 4 feats all on its own. And the bonus can still improve. And you don't have to pigeon hole yourself in to a cuddle build....Well, I guess you do, if you want to actually cuddle, but it allows said fighter to also do other things. This seems kinda cool.

Oh, and it's also a win on the action economy front, since you're trading a swift action for a standard one, and may also cost some enemy actions. It just costs a spell point...Which will admittedly make you wish you had more very quickly.

So, let's assume a Fighter with 20 Str/Dex, with a full caster who casts Strike (Rally). They both have a level equal to CR-1 (min 1). No feats or magic items, nor advancement outside of BAB and caster level. We will be comparing their bonus to the median CMD of monsters (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E2-s8weiulPoBQjdI05LBzOUToyoZIdSsLKxHAvf8F8/edit#gid=3).
(If anyone wants to make this a table, in the comments, feel free. It would actually be more easily done in a spreadsheet, but I'm bored, and want to do it by hand.)


CR | Bonus | CMD |% Chance of success
1 | 7 | 13 | 75
2| 7 | 15 | 65
3| 9 | 18 | 60
4| 11 | 19 | 65
5| 13 | 22 | 60
6| 15 | 24 | 60
7| 17 | 26 | 60
8| 19 | 28 | 60
9| 21 | 29 | 65
10| 23 | 32 | 60
11| 25 | 34 | 60
12| 27 | 35 | 65
13| 29 | 38 | 60
14| 31 | 39 | 65
15| 33 | 42 | 60
16| 35 | 44 | 60
17| 37 | 46 | 60
18| 39 | 49 | 55
19| 41 | 51 | 55
20| 43 | 54 | 50

Wow. That's so interesting. I didn't know median CMD almost exactly followed the formula of (base + 2*CR). A little bit less surprisingly, giving the fighter similar scaling, rather than giving flat bonuses keeps their chances relatively even, all the way until basically epic. This is also discounting any progression or investment on the players' part, outside of casting this. (Also, remember that this is hitting 1 CR higher than the level, so at level equivalent, it's actually hovering around 70% instead.)

So, I think this is pretty good, as you can essentially guarantee success by boosting caster level, or boosting the meathead's stats, or applying any other progression relevant to CMB. AND it is not limited to being a one-trick pony.

[Serafina]

Pretty nice math, thanks for that!
The chance of success will be higher on full-BAB characters in most cases, since they'll obviously advance their attributes and get some more attack bonuses (which almost always apply to CMB).

With Greater Rally, you could hand this out to your whole party, at the cost of another spell point. Or to yourself at no additional cost with Resounding Rally.
If used by a character that just provides attack bonuses to their party - and that's hardly uncommon - then even a non-full-BAB character should have a good chance of succeeding at the combat maneuver.


So how feasibly can you put this on a martial character?
Well, aside from playing an Armorist or Mageknight (both full-BAB, low-caster classes), or a Prodigy or Sage, or some other class that has innate access to this, or taking a one-level dip into any casting class, you can also do the following:

- take the Basic Magical Training and Advanced Magical Training feats. You now have a low caster level, the War-sphere, use your highest mental ability score for casting, and have spell points equal to it.
- take a Casting Tradition. Take the Battle Manipulator drawback - this gives you a Rally-talent, and you don't need totems to rally people.
- take a bunch of general drawbacks from your Casting Tradition to get more spell points. Galvanized (you're wielding a weapon anyway, right?), Magical Signs, Prepared Caster (you're only using one sphere anyway), Strenuous, and Verbal Casting, for example. This would give you one extra spell point per level.
- take the Reflexive Magic (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sphere-focused-feats#toc151) feat - it gives you two spell points that can only be used to Rally yourself, and that you get back every minute. Never run out of spell points to rally yourself again.
- the Gift for Magic (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/traits#toc27) trait gives +2 Caster level and thus effectively +2 CMB
Basically, any martial character can join in on this for two to three feats.

[SangoProduction]

Oh. Didn't even consider the possibility of advancing your own CMB with this. I mean. Kinda. But not as a full BAB character, and really more as a side effect.
But still, that promises to be quite devastating.

[exelsisxax]

The person you rally must share a mandate with you or be within one of your totems, so this is not as good as you think it is. You're either burning more spell points or using standard actions to keep one of them up, so there is either no action economy advantage or you run out of it quickly. It IS useful, but this isn't going to break anything.

[stack]

The person you rally must share a mandate with you or be within one of your totems, so this is not as good as you think it is. You're either burning more spell points or using standard actions to keep one of them up, so there is either no action economy advantage or you run out of it quickly. It IS useful, but this isn't going to break anything.

Assumption is that you have the drawback to not be able to make totems, so instead rally in an area around yourself.

[Serafina]

The person you rally must share a mandate with you or be within one of your totems, so this is not as good as you think it is. You're either burning more spell points or using standard actions to keep one of them up, so there is either no action economy advantage or you run out of it quickly. It IS useful, but this isn't going to break anything.There's four ways to get around that:
- the Eternal Vigilante talent, which just allows you to always rally any ally within 30 feet of yourself, as well as yourself.
- the Battle Manipulator drawback, which does the same thing, while also giving a rally-talent, at the cost of not being able to use totems.
- various Dual Sphere Feats which allow you to rally allies under the effect of one of your other sphere-effects.
- various class features which I'm not going to list right now, but which specificy that you can just rally people

I mean, I layed out a way to do it above which just works, and needs no totems at all.

[MrSandman]

I'm not sure about the ally not using an action of their own, though. I'm no expert on the war sphere, but as I read it, you spend a spell point on your ally's turn to give them a boost to their manoeuvre, which they perform normally, as a standard action and all that.

[Mehangel]

I'm not sure about the ally not using an action of their own, though. I'm no expert on the war sphere, but as I read it, you spend a spell point on your ally's turn to give them a boost to their manoeuvre, which they perform normally, as a standard action and all that.

Except that logic doesn't really hold up if you use the rally on your own turn.

[MrSandman]

Except that logic doesn't really hold up if you use the rally on your own turn.

Well, they could get the boost when they do use their action to perform a combat manoeuvre on their turn.

[A.J.Gibson]

I'm not sure about the ally not using an action of their own, though. I'm no expert on the war sphere, but as I read it, you spend a spell point on your ally's turn to give them a boost to their manoeuvre, which they perform normally, as a standard action and all that.

Rallies require no action or a free action from the target of the rally. The real cost is the strike rally is that you don't have Safety available to you.

[MrSandman]

That settles it, then.