Cost of at-will items

[willaayy]

What would be the cost of an at-will ring of faerie fire?

[chimaeraUndying]

4000gp.
(http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#tableEstimatingMagicItemGol dPieceValues)
Spell level (1) × caster level (1) × duration measured in minute increments (2) × 2000gp.

Same price in Pathfinder, as well; it uses (basically) the same table.

[Troacctid]

There's no such item, so it doesn't have a cost. You'd have to invent one. Closest existing item is probably the Stormfire Ring, which is only 5/day for 4000 gp, but has a damage over time effect stapled on.

[weckar]

4000gp.
(http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#tableEstimatingMagicItemGol dPieceValues)
Spell level (1) × caster level (1) × duration measured in minute increments (2) × 2000gp.

Same price in Pathfinder, as well; it uses (basically) the same table.At-will, not continuous. So, by your table, 1800gp

[hamishspence]

At-will, not continuous. So, by your table, 1800gp

The example "command word" item (with 1800gp as the base price), Cape of the Mountebank, is 1/day.

That's not "unlimited use at-will".

[weckar]

Command use items are unlimited use, unless further limited. The cape of the mountebank is 10080gp, for a 4th level spell cast at CL 9, once per day.
1800 * 4 * 9 / 5 = 12960. It is actually underpriced.

[Nifft]

What would be the cost of an at-will ring of faerie fire?
1 - Look up similar items. Find a reasonable ballpark for the functionality.

2 - Use that ballpark to find a fair price.

3 - If there are no reasonable examples, use the SRD guideline table as ... a guideline.


There's no such item, so it doesn't have a cost. You'd have to invent one. Closest existing item is probably the Stormfire Ring, which is only 5/day for 4000 gp, but has a damage over time effect stapled on. Agree, this seems like the closest example.

[Troacctid]

The other close comparison being, of course, a Wand of Faerie Fire (750 gp).

[CharonsHelper]

The other close comparison being, of course, a Wand of Faerie Fire (750 gp).

Besides being limited to 50 uses, that takes up a hand and requires it to be on your spell list (or a UMD check).

So - not really comparable.

[hamishspence]

"On command, ring (casts 1st level spell)" has at least one example:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#animalFriendship

Animal Friendship
On command, this ring affects an animal as if the wearer had cast charm animal.

Faint enchantment; CL 3rd; Forge Ring, charm animal; Price 10,800 gp.

That may be rings having a minimum caster level of 3 though.

EDIT: Apparently there are caster level 1 rings - but not CL1 spellcasting ones.

[Troacctid]

Besides being limited to 50 uses, that takes up a hand and requires it to be on your spell list (or a UMD check).

So - not really comparable.
It's obviously less powerful, which is how we know the proposed item should cost more. 50 is a lot of uses, though.


"On command, ring (casts 1st level spell)" has at least one example:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#animalFriendship

Animal Friendship
On command, this ring affects an animal as if the wearer had cast charm animal.

Faint enchantment; CL 3rd; Forge Ring, charm animal; Price 10,800 gp.

That may be rings having a minimum caster level of 3 though.

EDIT: Apparently there are caster level 1 rings - but not CL1 spellcasting ones.
Also in the SRD: Ring Feather Falling, Hat of Disguise, Helm of Comprehend Languages and Read Magic.

[hamishspence]

Feather Falling doesn't require you to spend actions though - the ring automatically casts the spell for you, whenever you fall (even if you might not actually want it to for some reason).

Whereas an "at will ring of faerie fire" - you'd choose when to cast it and what to cast it on.

Extrapolating from the Animal Friendship ring - a CL1 version of it, would be expected to cost 3600 gp. Possible starting point for ring of faerie fire?

[Jowgen]

I find the SRD is the worst place to look for similar items to do price estimates, as the designers' idea of how expensive stuff should be changed a lot over the years, plus the items there include a lot of "legacy" stuff that they carried over from prior editions to uphold traditions and inadvertently priced horribly.

I think it best to look at more recent publications. For example, the MIC has the Gloves of the Uldra Savant, which give Ray of Frost at will at CL 5 for 3100 gp, and the Talisman of the Disk for Floating Disk at CL 3 for a measily 500 gp. Both pretty cheap, but also very much showing that what the item does is more of a factor than just spell and CL.

Another decent comparision item is the Ring of Drow blood (DotU), which gives give dancing lights, darkness, and faerie fire each once per day, at CL 7 for 4800 gp, although the special part being that they are explicitly SLA's, which has benefits in itself.

So based on that and how disproportionately useful Faerie Fire is for its spell level, I'd place my estimate for the value of an at will command word item of Faerie Fire at 6000 gp.

[Troacctid]

So based on that and how disproportionately useful Faerie Fire is for its spell level, I'd place my estimate for the value of an at will command word item of Faerie Fire at 6000 gp.
You really think it's worth 50% more than the Stormfire Ring?

[Jowgen]

You really think it's worth 50% more than the Stormfire Ring?

I think the Stormfire Ring is underpriced due to being part of an item set, which have weird rules for being find-able with with a DC 30 knowledge checks, and their crafting requiring possessing another item of the set on hand. For comparison, look at the Raptor Mask. It's a mere 3500 gp, but grants +5 untyped spot, which should be 5000 gp according to the pricing guidlines, and you add Blindness immunity on top of that.

Even if we consider the Stormfire Ring priced appropriately, I think a 50% surcharge is warranted for the ability to spam farie fire all day, even taking away the d6 of damage/round. With it you can walk into a new area and immediately faerie fire the whole room to check for invisible/concealed enemies. Also, stormfire only gives us 5 rounds instead of minutes.

[Troacctid]

Items from sets specifically aren't priced differently because of it.

[Jowgen]

Items from sets specifically aren't priced differently because of it.

They still tend to be rather underpriced I think, whatever the reason. Raptor Mask is the prime example, but there is also the Mask of the Tiger, which gives Track (or +5 comp Survival if you already have it) plus constant low light vision for a mere 4000, and of course the Panther Mask which is Run plus 5 ft landspeed for a measly 2700 gp. Straight up bargains.

But as I said, even treating the Stormfire Ring as price appropriate, I think the spam-ability of a no-save concealment negator plus a minute/level long duration is certainly warrants the 50% premium. Leaving it at 4000 gp is probably fine, but that makes it an option as early as 4th level if WBL is adhered to, which I think is a bit early to give the option to just say no to enemy invisibility. At 6000 gp it's more of a level 6+ item, at which point there are enough enemies with SR to not make it a flat out "negate miss chance" button.