I want to be a rabbit!

[Baby Gary]

So I have a player... who wants to be a rabbit. He doesn’t want to be a lycanthrope, or an anthropomorphic animal, just a rabbit. Do you know of any race that he can be so he can be a rabbit? So homebrew and he wants to be a warlock.

P.S. the campaign is starting at 7th level

[CharonsHelper]

How about an awakened rabbit?

[Baby Gary]

That would work, I’d still need to find stats for the rabbit as a creature

[hamishspence]

I’d still need to find stats for the rabbit as a creature

Technically the SRD doesn't have rabbit stats. However, you can use other animals to approximate them.

In Dragon Magazine, rabbit familiars were represented using the rules for cats.

I'd replace ranks in Climb with ranks in Jump though.

[Malimar]

That would work, I’d still need to find stats for the rabbit as a creature
I don't know of any books that might have it, except maybe Dragon Magazine. (There was one with alternate familiars that might be plausible, but I don't recall which issue it is.)

I'd probably just take Rat, strip it of its climb and swims speeds, maybe bump its land speed up to 20 or 30, and maybe add a +8 racial bonus to jump. EDIT: Or, as mentioned above, just use Cat to approximate it, that's an even simpler option, yes.

(Also, Awakened Animals generally suck as PC races by RAW, even if you give them LA +0, because 2 Magical Beast RHD is awful. It's probably just fine to drop the RHD and let them just take only class levels. Also, randomized stats are bad if you're using point buy; just give it racial +0 int and (if you use Rat) -2 or so cha (-6 would be more in accord with RAW, but is unnecessarily harsh).)

[weckar]

Or whoever cast Awaken cast it as Maximised Awaken :p

[Boggartbae]

Here are the pathfinder statistics for a rabbit (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/rabbit/). I would give it two 1d2 claw attacks in addition to its bite for the sake of realism, and then run it through awaken.

[Malphegor]

I’m more curious what class would you pick for it to become the Rabbit of Caerbannog, with its very pointy teeth.

Monk maybe. Flurry of attacks, but the dreaded Rabbit was more of a grappler

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Or whoever cast Awaken cast it as Maximised Awaken :pOr *gasp!* Maximized and Empowered.


I’m more curious what class would you pick for it to become the Rabbit of Caerbannog, with its very pointy teeth.Kensai. Enhance your bite attack with vorpal.

[Bronk]

Or *gasp!* Maximized and Empowered.

Oooo, or he could start as a woodling rabbit, then have the spell cast as Intensified...

[Andor13]

I'd say apprentice Druid who got killed and reincarnated, but his master was so old he was using the AD&D chart.

[CharonsHelper]

Here are the pathfinder statistics for a rabbit (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/rabbit/). I would give it two 1d2 claw attacks in addition to its bite for the sake of realism, and then run it through awaken.

Because giving 3 natural attacks to a bunny and then able to take out a commoner is 'realism'? :smalleek:

[Menzath]

I’m more curious what class would you pick for it to become the Rabbit of Caerbannog, with its very pointy teeth.

Monk maybe. Flurry of attacks, but the dreaded Rabbit was more of a grappler

I was thinking more along the lines of a jump maxed , warblade or swordsage mayhaps.
Although if they could get metal teeth disciple of dispater could work.

Heck if we could find some way for a rabbit to get the feats human heritage and jotunbrood that opens up way more options.

[Boggartbae]

Because giving 3 natural attacks to a bunny and then able to take out a commoner is 'realism'? :smalleek:

Yes.

I more meant that they can both bite and kick, so if cats get claw claw bite, rabbits should too.

[Nifft]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSwitchTrue.htm

Just need 17 levels of Telepath and you're ready to bun.

[CharonsHelper]

Yes.

I more meant that they can both bite and kick, so if cats get claw claw bite, rabbits should too.

Have you ever actually held a rabbit? They don't actually do much of anything aggressive. I'd be more likely to remove their bite attack than to add more natural attacks.

And frankly - housecats getting 3 natural attacks which can deal damage to a person is pretty silly anyway. If they need to be stated, I'd change it so that they each deal 0 damage, but they get a rend if all 3 hit. (Not that housecats really need stats anyway.)

[liquidformat]

https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-have-been-killed-by-cats-in-the-past-ten-years-and-under-what-circumstances

I will just leave this here because... why not...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Have you ever actually held a rabbit? They don't actually do much of anything aggressive. I'd be more likely to remove their bite attack than to add more natural attacks.

And frankly - housecats getting 3 natural attacks which can deal damage to a person is pretty silly anyway. If they need to be stated, I'd change it so that they each deal 0 damage, but they get a rend if all 3 hit. (Not that housecats really need stats anyway.)Have you held a rabbit that didn't want to be held? I have. Got scratched all to hell.

Though I'd say it's more of a single rake attack than two claws, as they use both rear claws at the same time.

[liquidformat]

Have you held a rabbit that didn't want to be held? I have. Got scratched all to hell.

Though I'd say it's more of a single rake attack than two claws, as they use both at the same time.

Fiend Folio gave terror birds kick attacks, so maybe the rabbit has 1 kick attack. Also those teeth are not to be messed with they can take a finger...

[CharonsHelper]

Have you held a rabbit that didn't want to be held? I have. Got scratched all to hell.

Though I'd say it's more of a single rake attack than two claws, as they use both rear claws at the same time.

Yeah - but just painful not life threatening damage. 5-6 such scratches aren't going to put you in the hospital.

I mean - getting bitten by a horsefly hurts, but it shouldn't deal HP damage unless it's part of a swarm. Even a basic wasp/yellow jacket/bee probably shouldn't deal measurable damage outside of a swarm.

[Ramza00]

There is a beguiler race in shinning south. Use the statistics for this race but remove the claw and rake abilities for this +0 cohort race. Also replace the climb bonus with a jump bonus. Now you have a usable race and just reflavor your "beguiler" as an intelligent rabbit.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

There is a beguiler race in shinning south. Use the statistics for this race but remove the claw and rake abilities for this +0 cohort race. Also replace the climb bonus with a jump bonus. Now you have a usable race and just reflavor your "beguiler" as an intelligent rabbit."PIKA!"

https://orig00.deviantart.net/fe04/f/2010/211/a/8/pikachu_wizard_by_shinoahd.png (https://www.deviantart.com/shinoahd/art/Pikachu-Wizard-170526236)

[The Viscount]

Hengeyokai from Oriental Adventures has the option for you to select hare. With the update they're no longer LA +1, and they're humanoid (shapechanger). Shifting forms is limited per day, but you can stay in hare form indefinitely.

[Luccan]

I might also recommend the Hare Hengeyokai from OA as a place to start. There's a 1/4 of a statblock already provided. Plus if you can convince him to play a less hamstringed race, he can remain in animal form most of the time and has 0 chance of forced transformation in or out (like a lycanthrope might have).

Edit: also, for class a Psion or the like should do. No need to speak, no need for hands.

[Manyasone]

Yeah - but just painful not life threatening damage. 5-6 such scratches aren't going to put you in the hospital.

I mean - getting bitten by a horsefly hurts, but it shouldn't deal HP damage unless it's part of a swarm. Even a basic wasp/yellow jacket/bee probably shouldn't deal measurable damage outside of a swarm.

I have an uncle who has to be rushed to the hospital when he gets stung by a single wasp...Allergic reactions aren't well translated into this game

[noob]

Awakened level drained rabbit is the answer.(awakening gives 2 extra hit dice for no reason)
Or mind switched elder brain if you are in a very silly campaign.

[Knaight]

Have you ever actually held a rabbit? They don't actually do much of anything aggressive. I'd be more likely to remove their bite attack than to add more natural attacks.

Domestic rabbits are usually pretty docile, and rabbits in general tend to try not to pick fights with humans (much the same way humans aren't in the habit of trying to fight elephants without weapons). If you look at how wild rabbits interact with other creatures nearer their size, most notably other rabbits, you'll see a propensity to fighting. This includes claws, but particularly includes kicking.


Yeah - but just painful not life threatening damage. 5-6 such scratches aren't going to put you in the hospital.

I mean - getting bitten by a horsefly hurts, but it shouldn't deal HP damage unless it's part of a swarm. Even a basic wasp/yellow jacket/bee probably shouldn't deal measurable damage outside of a swarm.
Which is a pretty clear example of how the lower limit of damaging attacks at 1 damage creates some weird edge cases. They're astoundingly unlikely to come up in game, for obvious reasons, but they're still weird. Any attack a rabbit gets is going to be odd in this way. Their fighting reflecting their fighting less in other regards doesn't somehow make it more realistic overall.

[CharonsHelper]

I have an uncle who has to be rushed to the hospital when he gets stung by a single wasp...Allergic reactions aren't well translated into this game

Yeah - but that's an edge case. I'm allergic to peanuts & tomatoes, but I don't think that they should require Fort saves to consume.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I might also recommend the Hare Hengeyokai from OA as a place to start. There's a 1/4 of a statblock already provided. Plus if you can convince him to play a less hamstringed race, he can remain in animal form most of the time and has 0 chance of forced transformation in or out (like a lycanthrope might have).

Edit: also, for class a Psion or the like should do. No need to speak, no need for hands.Gloves of man (Savage Species) gives hands in animal form, and the uber-cheap pearl of speech (MIC) gives you the ability to speak one language.

[Thurbane]

Fangshields Druid (CoV p.40) sub levels might also be an option...

As an aside, I've seen ads for the latest edition of the Bunnies & Burrows (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/82542/Bunnies-And-Burrows) RPG appearing in my FB feed lately.

[Elkad]

Bite for 1d2

Rake for 1d6 - must be in a grapple. No pounce or similar.

Since landing a grapple on a rabbit should be fairly difficult, that leaves the rake as exactly what it is intended as. A defensive maneuver to convince something that grapples the bunny that it has made a grievous mistake.

[Baby Gary]

Wow, im surprised how much this blew up. What do I do now? link my soundcloud? that what the kids are doing, right?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Wow, im surprised how much this blew up.Rabbits don't typically blow up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17ocaZb-bGg

Ducks do.

Heh. Encourage your friend to play a Bugs expy, using his psion powers in lieu of Toon Force to mess with people, both in and out of battle.

[Falcii]

Use the rabbit form stats for hengyokai?

[tterreb]

You could just refluff the tibbit from the dragon compendium to be a rabbit rather than a cat. If cats can magically evolve into humanoids I don't see why rabbits couldn't do the same.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You could just refluff the tibbit from the dragon compendium to be a rabbit rather than a cat. If cats can magically evolve into humanoids I don't see why rabbits couldn't do the same.Wait.

Tibbit? Rabbit?

Rabbit? Tibbit?

I think there's a conspiracy here, somewhere.

[Nifft]

Wait.

Tibbit? Rabbit?

Rabbit? Tibbit?

I think there's a conspiracy here, somewhere.

And frogs say Ribbit.

This is a Grippli conspiracy... believe it or not!

[Bohandas]

I don't know of any books that might have it, except maybe Dragon Magazine. (There was one with alternate familiars that might be plausible, but I don't recall which issue it is.)

I'd probably just take Rat, strip it of its climb and swims speeds, maybe bump its land speed up to 20 or 30, and maybe add a +8 racial bonus to jump. EDIT: Or, as mentioned above, just use Cat to approximate it, that's an even simpler option, yes.

(Also, Awakened Animals generally suck as PC races by RAW, even if you give them LA +0, because 2 Magical Beast RHD is awful. It's probably just fine to drop the RHD and let them just take only class levels. Also, randomized stats are bad if you're using point buy; just give it racial +0 int and (if you use Rat) -2 or so cha (-6 would be more in accord with RAW, but is unnecessarily harsh).)

Give them negative level adjustment

[CharonsHelper]

Give them negative level adjustment

That would then make them the best spell-caster possible. Bad idea.

[Baby Gary]

Give them negative level adjustment

There are some problems inherent to negative level adjustment, I would probably just remove the RHD, if they use that

[Sto]

Give them a permanent Planar Bubble to the Darkworld and make sure they don't have the moon pearl.



Give them negative level adjustment

Sounds like a TO dream come true. I think it would be best to either use an awakened PF rabbit, or go with the OA race. My current GM is allowing us to replace our awakened animal's hit dice with class levels. With a rabbit that shouldn't be a problem. With a Gigantosaurus however... We're starting a cult I think.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

And frogs say Ribbit.

This is a Grippli conspiracy... believe it or not!"Kill the wibbit, kill the wibbit! Kill the wibbit! Kill the wibbit!"


https://youtu.be/LHivHuPFBqA

[Bohandas]

That would then make them the best spell-caster possible. Bad idea.

How so? Most castig stuff scales off of caster level, not HD. It would give them a slightly higher skill cap for spellcraft, but that's only really relevant to wizards. And the extra hitpoints would quickly become irrelevant after level two or so.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Kobolds can gain extra sorcerer or wizard levels, and nobody thinks they're overpow...

Err...

[Boggartbae]

Which is a pretty clear example of how the lower limit of damaging attacks at 1 damage creates some weird edge cases. They're astoundingly unlikely to come up in game, for obvious reasons, but they're still weird. Any attack a rabbit gets is going to be odd in this way. Their fighting reflecting their fighting less in other regards doesn't somehow make it more realistic overall.

I much prefer Pathfinder's rule, where if an attack would do less than 1 damage, it does 1 noneleathal damage instead.

[Ruethgar]

Extrapolating from Dragon Magazines, an awakened rabbit would be ECL 0(despite 2.25 HD), might want to change that to LA.

[rel]

The pathfinder damage rule still leaves you with a rabbit that can beat a commoner into unconsciousness in under a minute. I say lose the natural attacks.

Now then, building your rabbit:
size is tiny
type is magical beast if you want a smart rabbit or animal otherwise.
attacks none
speed 40ft
LA+0

use physical stat mods from your small animal of choice (or just make them up).

for a smart rabbit set the mental stat mods to +0 and, if you are feeling generous, give the player a moderate bonus (+2, +4 whatever is appropriate for your game) in the mental stat of their choice.
for a dumb rabbit set int to 2 and give a minor boost to wis and cha before offering the player chosen bonus.

The last thing to do is to boil down some essential characteristic of rabbits into a simple minor bonus.
I suggest going with a rabbits ability to run away; give rabbits a +4 racial bonus in tumble and escape artist and have them always count as trained in both skills.

[Fizban]

So I have a player... who wants to be a rabbit. He doesn’t want to be a lycanthrope, or an anthropomorphic animal, just a rabbit. Do you know of any race that he can be so he can be a rabbit? So homebrew and he wants to be a warlock.

P.S. the campaign is starting at 7th level
Well first question is: do you actually want them to be a rabbit? I have a very low tolerance for "lol random"- at least when someone wants to be a catgirl of some sort or even just a sapient dog there's mechanical identity. Players who want to be animals that don't even have stats with no reason or character building other than "because" annoy me. You want to be a warlock cursed into a rabbit, an awakened rabbit, a rabbit-like monster, sure, but "just a rabbit warlock" is not a valid character concept. Rabbits do not have human intelligence, cannot take class levels, have no combat ability.

As already mentioned, Hengeyokai is the best answer, with the Surrogate Spellcasting feat from Savage Species to do somatic components in animal form. Not just because there is no limit to how long they can stay in animal form, but also because if and when they eventually get tired of being a rabbit, they're capable of exiting lol funny mode. You could have an in-game reason for why they start and stay that way, a curse, plot memory loss, being raised by rabbits, whatever. You could actually just not tell them, give them their stats and the feat and wait until they get bored to reveal that they were actually a shapeshifter all along. And if they don't get bored then it doesn't matter.

[Bullet06320]

Dangerous Denizens - The Monsters of Tellene has stats for a Hare on pg 186

[Bohandas]

Well first question is: do you actually want them to be a rabbit? I have a very low tolerance for "lol random"- at least when someone wants to be a catgirl of some sort or even just a sapient dog there's mechanical identity. Players who want to be animals that don't even have stats with no reason or character building other than "because" annoy me. You want to be a warlock cursed into a rabbit, an awakened rabbit, a rabbit-like monster, sure, but "just a rabbit warlock" is not a valid character concept. Rabbits do not have human intelligence, cannot take class levels, have no combat ability.

There would definitely be more prececent if it was a close combat class

[Baby Gary]

Well first question is: do you actually want them to be a rabbit? I have a very low tolerance for "lol random"- at least when someone wants to be a catgirl of some sort or even just a sapient dog there's mechanical identity. Players who want to be animals that don't even have stats with no reason or character building other than "because" annoy me. You want to be a warlock cursed into a rabbit, an awakened rabbit, a rabbit-like monster, sure, but "just a rabbit warlock" is not a valid character concept. Rabbits do not have human intelligence, cannot take class levels, have no combat ability.

As already mentioned, Hengeyokai is the best answer, with the Surrogate Spellcasting feat from Savage Species to do somatic components in animal form. Not just because there is no limit to how long they can stay in animal form, but also because if and when they eventually get tired of being a rabbit, they're capable of exiting lol funny mode. You could have an in-game reason for why they start and stay that way, a curse, plot memory loss, being raised by rabbits, whatever. You could actually just not tell them, give them their stats and the feat and wait until they get bored to reveal that they were actually a shapeshifter all along. And if they don't get bored then it doesn't matter.

What I told him is he can be a Hengeyokia or a Tibbit but change the fluff to be a rabbit. I feel like this would work out best cause they are better for a player. I do like those ideas about staying as a rabbit, I think i May end up doing something like that

[Bronk]

I have also been scratched up by a rabbit... I was working at a camp, some fool had brought his pet rabbit and lost it, and we were all trying to recapture it so they could both go home. It turns out that if you grab one around the middle, they can reach their hind legs over their heads so far that they can scratch all the way down your forearms, and they do it multiple times per second. It didn't draw blood, but it did leave painful gouges.

I like the idea of a weak rake attack, but non-lethal, and only when in a grapple? Maybe just a grapple bonus?

No rabbits were harmed in the making of this memory. (Some humans were slightly harmed.)

As for making one... although the ideas I've seen are all good and plausible, for spell-based methods, it would be easier to start as a regular character then just get hit with a 'baleful polymorph' spell, instead of starting as a bunny creature and being awakened. The difference would be that the character would have their normal mental stats, and the effect could be ended by a 'dispel magic' instead of the 'break enchantment' it would take to end 'awaken'.

[noob]

I have also been scratched up by a rabbit... I was working at a camp, some fool had brought his pet rabbit and lost it, and we were all trying to recapture it so they could both go home. It turns out that if you grab one around the middle, they can reach their hind legs over their heads so far that they can scratch all the way down your forearms, and they do it multiple times per second. It didn't draw blood, but it did leave painful gouges.

I like the idea of a weak rake attack, but non-lethal, and only when in a grapple? Maybe just a grapple bonus?

No rabbits were harmed in the making of this memory. (Some humans were slightly harmed.)

As for making one... although the ideas I've seen are all good and plausible, for spell-based methods, it would be easier to start as a regular character then just get hit with a 'baleful polymorph' spell, instead of starting as a bunny creature and being awakened. The difference would be that the character would have their normal mental stats, and the effect could be ended by a 'dispel magic' instead of the 'break enchantment' it would take to end 'awaken'.
the huge problem is that a regular character is an awakened house cat so you now are an awakened house cat polymorphed into a rabbit and who lost all his class features(because baleful polymorph is not baleful for no reason).


The target loses all the special abilities it has in its normal form, including its class features.
is in the description of baleful polymorph.

[ShurikVch]

Dangerous Denizens - The Monsters of Tellene has stats for a Hare on pg 186Also, Hare was printed - as a possible Familiar - in the Dragon #280
This variant have better Str (3), Con (11), Wis (12), Fort (+2), Will (+1), Jump check (+12), and Listen check (+8)

On the other hand, variant from the Dangerous Denizens got higher land speed (50), kinda impressive Hide check (+13 - in areas of thick brush and heavy undergrowth), higher Spot check (+3), and better Cha (10) - which is useful for a Warlock

[PrismCat21]

How so? Most castig stuff scales off of caster level, not HD. It would give them a slightly higher skill cap for spellcraft, but that's only really relevant to wizards. And the extra hitpoints would quickly become irrelevant after level two or so.

Level Adjustment and Hit Dice are two very different things.
It seems that you meant 'remove the racial hit dice' instead of 'give them negative level adjustment'.
.
While most spells do scale with Caster Level, that itself is not the issue.
Besides, if you have more HD than CL, it takes just 1 feat to help close the gap.
.
Spellcraft is generally the most important skill (outside Concentration) for any caster, not just Wizard.
.
Squishy characters (small hit dice) are squishy because of how little hit points they have. Extra HD would be great for them. The downsides to getting it are just generally not worth it.

https://i.imgflip.com/21aqbc.jpg

[Bohandas]

They shoukd get at least -1 LA. There's no way 2 levels in magical beast is as good as, say, 2 levels in fighter

[noob]

They shoukd get at least -1 LA. There's no way 2 levels in magical beast is as good as, say, 2 levels in fighter

They should not: not only 2 magical beast hd is better than a single fighter level but it would also mean that once level drained awakened rabbits would be the best everything thanks to having an extra class level.

[Andor13]

I'd say apprentice Druid who got killed and reincarnated, but his master was so old he was using the AD&D chart.


What I told him is he can be a Hengeyokia or a Tibbit but change the fluff to be a rabbit. I feel like this would work out best cause they are better for a player. I do like those ideas about staying as a rabbit, I think i May end up doing something like that

You could combine these. A druid owed Bob a favor, so when he was killed he reincarnated him, but he came back as a Rabbit Hengeyokai because reasons. However since no one around there had ever heard of a Hengeyokai they figured he was just a talking rabbit. And since he has no idea how to shapeshift he's stuck as a bunny.

When the player gets bored of playing Mr Fluffles, you can have him bump into an NPC hengeyokai who asks why he never changes his shape, and offers to teach him how when the story comes out. This way you avoid all stat and racial HD issues.

[Bohandas]

How about he has a rabbit's body because a rabbit stole his body to use in a convoluted mind-switching identity-theft welfare fraud scheme like in that one episode of Aqua Teen Hunger Force.

[ShurikVch]

There was one rabbit warlock...
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/teentitans/images/4/46/147.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150309171346

[Psyren]

I think the kicks would be slam attacks. Not that rabbits can't have claws but I don't think it fits their fantasy portrayal as well as biting and kicking.

[hamishspence]

I think the kicks would be slam attacks. Not that rabbits can't have claws but I don't think it fits their fantasy portrayal as well as biting and kicking.

In the Watership Down animated movie at least, it looks like rabbits did as much clawing with their front paws as kicking with their back paws, if not more.

[Bohandas]

I think the kicks would be slam attacks. Not that rabbits can't have claws but I don't think it fits their fantasy portrayal as well as biting and kicking.

Their most famous fantasy portrayal was the guardian of Caer Banog in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. That rabbit was dynamite; it did it all.

[Psyren]

I was thinking more Usagi Yojimbo and Alice Tsukagami myself.