Poison sorcerer

[stoutstien]

Was toying with the idea for a class focused on poison damage which is over looked alot due to half the game being completely immune to it. Sorcerer or warlock seems fitting so I tried sorcerer first due to fact the base class has most of the power of the class so the sub class features are easier to balance.
Lv 1 - when you cast a spell that causes poison dmg, the targets movement speed is reduced by 10 feet intil the start of your next turn. You learn the poison spray cantrip and the range for it is doubled. This does not count against your cantrips know.

Lv 6- you gain resistance to poison damage and have advatage on saving throws to end the posion condition.
As a bonus action you can spend one sorcerer point cause a spell you cast that does posion damage or cause the poison condition to bypass resistance and immunity.
As a reaction you can spend 2 sorcerer points to cause a enemy that makes a savings throw to end the poison condition to fail. You can use this feature up to Cha modifier times per long rest.
Lv 14-as an action you can cast gaseous form on your self at will. If you start your turn in the sense space as another creature it takes poison damage equal to half your sorcerer lv and most make a savings throw vs caster or become poisoned.
Lv 18- gain immunity to poison and the poison condition.
You can spend 4 sorcerer points when you cast gaseous form on self(with lv 14 feature) to be able to cast any spell that causes poison damage or the condition while in that form.

Thoughts?

[Aaedimus]

Poison*
Sorry... that was really irking me

[stoutstien]

Poison*
Sorry... that was really irking me

Oh man, phone auto corrected the whole post that way.ill fix it. But the idea of fish damage is funny

[Aaedimus]

Lol it's all good.

Your Sorcerer's not bad, infact i feel looker you might even be pulling your punches a bit in terms of power. It could be fun though lol

[sophontteks]

Its very weak vs. the other archtypes.

[Kane0]

Level 6 is a lot of features bundled together into one level, especially since two of them can be copied by being a Dwarf/Strongheart Halfling and getting the Elemental Adept feat and adapting it to Poison.

Actually that second one might be a good idea.

Edit: You may want to look at the Warlock cloak of flies invocation for inspiration too, would fit in nicely.

[stoutstien]

Maybe I think the poison condition is more powerful than it is. Disadvantage on attack rolls and checks could cripple some foes. What if I add an extra growing die of damage to poison spells lv one 1d4 lv 6 1d6 and so on.

[Newtonsolo313]

you may want to scale up the relative power, poison is statistically the worst damage type, many monsters resist/ are immune to poison damage for various reasons but i know of no monster weak to it

[stoutstien]

Level 6 is a lot of features bundled together into one level, especially since two of them can be copied by being a Dwarf/Strongheart Halfling and getting the Elemental Adept feat and adapting it to Poison.

Actually that second one might be a good idea.

Edit: You may want to look at the Warlock cloak of flies invocation for inspiration too, would fit in nicely.

I toyed with adding the resistance at lv one or it cost 1 sorcery point at 3rd lv for 8 hour immunity instead of lv 6. Problem with elemental adept is the amount of flat out immunity to poison compared to other elemental types.

I like the clock of flies idea and may try to incorporate it to add some power

[sophontteks]

I would look into making something a little creative and defining then just adding numbers. Most the archtypes have some really cool and fun stuff right early.

Most sorcerer archtypes are also front-loaded. This is important because their main class powers don't come online until level 3, and most of your time will be spent in low levels anyway. This archtype offers so little early vs. the others it just can't compete.

[stoutstien]

I would look into making something a little creative and defining then just adding numbers. Most the archtypes have some really cool and fun stuff right early.

Most sorcerer archtypes are also front-loaded. This is important because their main class powers don't come online until level 3, and most of your time will be spent in low levels anyway. This archtype offers so little early vs. the others it just can't compete.

Agreed. But I didn't wanted to be over tuned I can always buff it.

what if I move the bypass immunity and Resistance to level 1 and just make it ba activated then move the gaseous form to lv 6.

[stoutstien]

Just had a flash of a crazy idea. What if the sorcerer could cause a volatile reaction. If a creature successfully passes the savings throw to remove the poison condition the sorcerer could cause the residual poison to stun the target. A catch 22 debuff scenario.

[sophontteks]

Agreed. But I didn't wanted to be over tuned I can always buff it.

what if I move the bypass immunity and Resistance to level 1 and just make it ba activated then move the gaseous form to lv 6.
Its a rocky road. Definitely easier to critique.

[Dalebert]

Perhaps consider the ability to add poison damage to a damaging spell by spending sorcery points. That's something you could do only when it's beneficial considering lots of creatures have immunity. Turning off immunity feels wrong. Poison is poison and it makes no sense for something immune to take dmg from it. The way to do that would be to change the dmg type to something else but that wouldn't fit a poison sorc.

I could see resistance to poison and adv on poison saves at 1st level; immunity at 14th. At 6th is probably a good time to add poison dmg. Maybe 1d6 per level of the damaging spell cast for a sorcery point with a con save for half dmg. It costs 2 sorc points for spells that dmg more than one target. But that's just a little quick brainstorming.

[stoutstien]

Perhaps consider the ability to add poison damage to a damaging spell by spending sorcery points. That's something you could do only when it's beneficial considering lots of creatures have immunity. Turning off immunity feels wrong. Poison is poison and it makes no sense for something immune to take dmg from it. The way to do that would be to change the dmg type to something else but that wouldn't fit a poison sorc.

I don't own any of the monster expansion books atm but in MM alone there is 0 vulnerable, less than 10 that resist, and over 50 creatures immune to poison. I know the fact that devil,demons, and dragons make up a good chunk of it makes it skew the results a tad.

What if instead of flat out removal of immunity it just downgraded it to resistance.
Could fluff it as spells drawing from one of the planes or realms of poison and disease.

[Kane0]

Level 1: Poison resistance (as per Dwarf)
Level 6: Once per turn when you deal damage to a creature with a spell, you can spend 1 Sorcery point to also force the creature to make a constitution saving throw against your Spell DC or be Poisoned for a number of rounds equal to your Proficiency Bonus.
Level 14: Creatures have disadvantage on constitution saving throws against spells you cast
Level 18: As a bonus action you can spend 2 sorcery points to create a poisonous cloud in a 10 foot radius around you, but not through total cover. The area of this cloud is lightly obscured and any creature that starts its turn in the cloud takes poison damage equal to your sorcerer level. This cloud lasts 1 minute or until you choose to end it as an action.

[stoutstien]

Maybe warlock would be a better route.

[sophontteks]

I got what is wrong here. This is going backwards. Before the mechanics can be made the archtype has to be explained. If we wanted a poison focus we can already claim that a green dragon was our ancestor. What does this archtype tell us of our magic origins?

Where did this power come from?
How do people get it?
What defines them?

[pygmybatrider]

Maybe warlock would be a better route.

I kind of like the idea of a Warlock Ooze patron - spells like Grease, Slow, and Contagion, and maybe a slime trail ability that makes the area you move through difficult terrain and has a chance of reducing enemies movement speed to 0 when they cross it. The EB invocation that slows enemies would be great, and maybe make up a new one that turns it into poison damage.

Or some sort of Hivemind patron, where you’re the human(oid) emissary is some Starship Troopers - style brain bug. Infestation, Giant Insect, Spike Growth etc. that Cloak of Flies invocation.

Both themes could also work as Sorcerous origins.

There are lots of ways you could fluff out the source of poison damage, and like the above poster said, it might be easier to fill in the mechanics after that.

[Quietus]

I don't own any of the monster expansion books atm but in MM alone there is 0 vulnerable, less than 10 that resist, and over 50 creatures immune to poison. I know the fact that devil,demons, and dragons make up a good chunk of it makes it skew the results a tad.

What if instead of flat out removal of immunity it just downgraded it to resistance.
Could fluff it as spells drawing from one of the planes or realms of poison and disease.

Alternatively, give an option to change poison spells to acid damage instead. That tends to still be in the same conceptual wheelhouse, but now that skeleton isn't coughing up its nonexistent lungs, it's melting over time.

[stoutstien]

I got what is wrong here. This is going backwards. Before the mechanics can be made the archtype has to be explained. If we wanted a poison focus we can already claim that a green dragon was our ancestor. What does this archtype tell us of our magic origins?

Where did this power come from?
How do people get it?
What defines them?

First off I love fluff. I love story driven choices. I love players having the ability to play anything they want and engage with each other and the environment.
I hate that if a player chooses green dragon as there blood line I have to plan for it or they will regret it after just a few sessions. Even if a Paladin gets in a fight with a solar his smite feature is only resisted not flat out ignored.

I was going to list all the spells that are poison based but as a whole they have the same issue:
-Flat out immunity is the big one
-con save are strong for alot of monsters
-lack of aoe. Stinky cloud is related but not actual poison aoe and cloud kill comes so late.