What color "evil" dragon could you best trust to work a deal with?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Pretty much I am running a campaign and have a group of npc's who probably seem more "Tony Soprano" shady than they are.

If the party doesn't help them one may need to call in a favor to get saved from some over zealous town guards.

Are any of the typically evil dragons trustworthy or pragmatic enough to have worked with a robin hood / mafia type group consistently?

[Kadesh]

Green and Blue seems like the ones who'd be most inclined to make a bargain thst significantly benefitted them.

Bearing in mind they are Evil with a capital E and likely to kill you after the bargain is complete anyway.

[Finback]

Seconded for green and blue.

Greens see the benefits of deals, and have no issues having humanoids in "their employ". Manipulation is their artform, so if they think the deal is to their benefit, they will probably work with it.

Blues seem to have the most honour, and would agree to terms and conditions that did not detract from their stance, but can recognise the power of non-dragons - both as individuals and as organised entities. They may not think they're as good as dragons, but know when to back down.

[KorvinStarmast]

Pretty much I am running a campaign and have a group of npc's who probably seem more "Tony Soprano" shady than they are.

If the party doesn't help them one may need to call in a favor to get saved from some over zealous town guards.

Are any of the typically evil dragons trustworthy or pragmatic enough to have worked with a robin hood / mafia type group consistently?The whole time you are making a deal with the green dragon, the dragon is, in the back of his or her mind, trying to figure out what side dish it will serve you with once you complete the deal and the final betrayal happens ... that will come as a surprise. (Well, that's the intent).

The Green Dragon is big on manipulation. :smallwink: If you want to sign up for that, roll with it but ..

Watch Your Back! You trust a green dragon? Uh, trust but verify is a minimum precaution. I'd add others. Get some leverage.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Cool. I looked up each of those and they should work.

Think a minor magical item is enough to offer an adult dragon to come scare off and maybe even kill some military men?

[Unoriginal]

White Dragon.


They are not schemers or game-players. Convincing them would be hard, but once it's done they would have little reason to do extra work and kill you unless the reward was enormous and the risk shrunk by the dragon's ego.

[Nifft]

Medium rare, a nice pink in the middle.

I would suggest trusting an evil dragon as far as the distance to your BBQ, and no further.

[Bohandas]

Blue or Rust

[Kane0]

Probably Blue. Maybe White.

Blacks are too sadistic
Greens are too manipulative
Reds are too proud

Blues are definitely still evil and you are a pawn, but with the right respect given you would probably get a little respect back. Whites are the most straightforward but by the same token the least likely to care to make a deal.

[beargryllz]

Red

They're so narcissistic that they'll probably keep you around so you can grovel at their amazingness

And, obviously, they are by far the most powerful so you have the most to gain by allying with one

[Finback]

Cool. I looked up each of those and they should work.

Think a minor magical item is enough to offer an adult dragon to come scare off and maybe even kill some military men?

I think a green would enjoy the terrorism, but demand more long term investment - a steady supply of items, perhaps it has some it wants, go get them for it, would you? Oh, and can you perhaps look into starting a little insurrection in the next kingdom over?

A blue will certainly not do it for tawdry bangles and dross. A blue would do it to have others' fear its name, expand its territory, and ALSO I'll have a much nicer item. Go find that sword of dragon-slaying and a portable forge, and have it melted down before my all-encompassing majesty.

[Finback]

Red

They're so narcissistic that they'll probably keep you around so you can grovel at their amazingness

And, obviously, they are by far the most powerful so you have the most to gain by allying with one

Nah, a red would certainly never ally with a lesser being. You are subservient to it, not equal. Take kobolds - they align themselves WITH the dragon, but it would never call them allies. That implies it would actively care about their motivations. A red only cares about what affects it personally - sometimes that might align with what affects the kobolds, but that's a coincidence.

[VoxRationis]

I'm definitely going with blue. You want a lawful dragon, one inclined to following "the rules" (although its rules might be different from yours, so be careful), and that leaves green and blue. But green dragons are manipulative and poison-tongued as well as poison-breathed. Blue prefer simple dominance relationships, so you know where you stand.

[CTurbo]

In order from least likely to most likely to make a deal with


Whites would be wondering why it's food is trying to talk
Blacks are TOO evil and cruel and would probably torture the party to death for asking.
Reds are definitely too proud to "help" and would probably make the party pay for even asking.
Greens are the smartest and most manipulative. They might help if they think they can gain a LOT from you somehow probably by trickery.
Blues are by far the most likely to make a deal with you as long as you're useful to it.

I wouldn't say reds are "by far" the most powerful. Blues are pretty close

[JellyPooga]

Definitely a choice between Blue and Green. I'd be inclined toward Blue, because they seem to be the slightly more logical/strategic of the two. So long as you continue to be useful to a Blue, they won't turn on you, whereas a Green might just get bored of you, cease finding you an entertaining trifle and cut you (perhaps literally) out of the picture.

[hamishspence]

Red

They're so narcissistic that they'll probably keep you around so you can grovel at their amazingness

And, obviously, they are by far the most powerful so you have the most to gain by allying with one

Red dragons have been known to go into business on occasion. Hephaestus from the Dark Elf Trilogy, hires himself out as a smelter, using his firebreath to melt metal.

So, if the deal is sufficiently profitable, even a proud, CE dragon, will go along with it.

[JellyPooga]

Red dragons have been known to go into business on occasion. Hephaestus from the Dark Elf Trilogy, hires himself out as a smelter, using his firebreath to melt metal.

So, if the deal is sufficiently profitable, even a proud, CE dragon, will go along with it.

Then there's always that pact with the Githyanki to consider...

[Unoriginal]

Then there's always that pact with the Githyanki to consider...

That deal was made with Tiamat, though.

Which is also the answer to this thread's question, in a way: if you have to make a deal with *any* evil dragon, make it with Tiamat. As long as the tribute exceed the benefits of betraying you, she will likely not do it, simply because you are too low on her radar and that people showing her what she consider proper respect is something valuable to her.

[Millface]

Blue or White, but I lean toward white.

Blue Dragons are the most likely to listen to you instead of just eat you, but they're cunning with a 16 Int and 15 Wis score. White Dragons are more cautious, they're the weakest and stupidest of the dragons. Adults have 12 Wis and 8 Int, which could be very relevant if you plan on using charms and/or persuasion/deception to strike the deal since they'll make insight checks to discern lies at a -1. They're also less likely to successfully swindle you, because they're too stupid to plot and scheme.

If played correctly on the DMs side, white should be easiest to to deal with by a pretty wide margin.

[Maxilian]

Blue or White.

Blue explained a lot

White, cause if i'm strong enough to make a deal with a dragon, i would prefer to make a deal with one of the less.... "smart" ones, so it would be harder to get stabbed in the back without seeing it comming.

[hamishspence]

Adults have 12 Wis and 8 Int, which could be very relevant if you plan on using charms and/or persuasion/deception to strike the deal since they'll make insight checks to discern lies at a -1. They're also less likely to successfully swindle you, because they're too stupid to plot and scheme.

An 8 INT being can plot and scheme - it's just that their low INT will handicap their schemes a bit.

[CTurbo]

I still think that Whites would be the LEAST likely to make a deal with

[GreyBlack]

I dunno. I could totally see a red dragon being a loan shark. Strike a deal with the red dragon that, if you provide him with a "cut" of your treasure, he'll provide you with aid. If he stabs you in the back, he loses out on getting more treasure.

[Nifft]

I dunno. I could totally see a red dragon being a loan shark. Strike a deal with the red dragon that, if you provide him with a "cut" of your treasure, he'll provide you with aid. If he stabs you in the back, he loses out on getting more treasure.

I ran a setting where dragons were mostly bankers.

They gave you paper money etched with a draconic Arcane Mark in trade for your gold, which they sat upon.

Kobolds handled most branch transactions in cities.

You could get a loan, based on your level and your expected treasure haul. Interest was indeed loan-shark-y.


But these were not evil dragons as such -- they were capitalists, and the disparate humanoid kingdoms were their impoverished & exploitable 3rd world.

[LuminousWarrior]

Any and none. It's all about the individual. Don't ask which dragon colour is the most likely to be trustworthy. Instead ask why this particular dragon is trustworthy. Use whatever dragon colour makes the most sense for the area, just make sure you understand it's motivations.

[hamishspence]

Blue or White, but I lean toward white.

Blue Dragons are the most likely to listen to you instead of just eat you, but they're cunning with a 16 Int and 15 Wis score. White Dragons are more cautious, they're the weakest and stupidest of the dragons.

I would suggest that 5e has flanderised them in that respect. While they have always been portrayed as slightly less intelligent that other chromatics, in both 3e and 4e they were significantly smarter than humans once they'd reached Huge size ("adult" in 5e). Not quite as smart as other dragons in their size class, but the intelligence gap was not very big.

I believe 5e may be the first edition to have Huge white dragons that are normally less intelligent than average humans.