Evil Pelor Cleric Class

[Bartmanhomer]

I notice that there's isn't an evil Pelor Cleric class. Is there a rule for using such a class?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It's not OGL and thus cannot be printed here. Pelor would be appalled at anyone knowing his true alignment, and he has the class's name under Voldemort's taboo.

Plus, I'm pretty sure he's the head of both the RIAA and Youtube...

[PhantasyPen]

Isn't Pelor LG? Thus he *can't* have any Evil clerics

[Thurbane]

"Pelor, the Burning Hate" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?443306) :smallamused:

[Bartmanhomer]

Isn't Pelor LG? Thus he *can't* have any Evil clerics

No Pelor is Neutral Good. You're thinking of Heironeus and/or Mordain.

[PhantasyPen]

No Pelor is Neutral Good. You're thinking of Heironeus and/or Mordain.

Well if he's NG than I would DEFINITELY not expect him to have Evil clerics (although I forgot about the Burning Hate bit Thurbane posted. ... Hmm, I might try to work that into a setting with two sun gods, with the Burning Hate trying to eliminate his rival by pretending to be him and attempting to erase him from all memory.)

[Bartmanhomer]

Well if he's NG than I would DEFINITELY not expect him to have Evil clerics (although I forgot about the Burning Hate bit Thurbane posted. ... Hmm, I might try to work that into a setting with two sun gods, with the Burning Hate trying to eliminate his rival by pretending to be him and attempting to erase him from all memory.)
There have been some clues of Pelor ulterior motives and true intentions in other D&D 3.5 books.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Note that Pelor (the so-called "Burning Hate") specializes in positive energy, which the adherents of the "Pelor is good" campaign insist means he is capital-G Good. But corruption via positive energy is the main schtick of Ragnorra the Elder Evil, Mother of Monsters, who twists and warps and mutates living creatures into Jenova-esque monstrosities, like living cancers thrust into the world...

Just food for thought.

[TheFamilarRaven]

To answer the question. there is no official rule for an Evil pelor class. Evil Pelor was the creation of some guy who over analyzed the flavor text of spells, the iconic 3.5 cleric, images etc... Some people are amused enough by this they treat it as cannon to DnD lore.

By the official rules, Pelor is neutral good and cannot have evil aligned clerics. Individual DMs may do whatever though.

EDIT: although perhaps somewhere a developers liked the idea enough to include it in official 3.5 lore? I don't believe so, but someone is more than welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

By the official rules, Pelor is neutral good and cannot have evil aligned clerics.Yes, by the "official" rules.

[Bartmanhomer]

What about a homebrew class? :confused:

[KillianHawkeye]

Burning Hate, more like BS. Pelor is Neutral Good. Full stop. There are no Evil clerics of Pelor.

[Thurbane]

Burning Hate, more like BS. Pelor is Neutral Good. Full stop. There are no Evil clerics of Pelor.

There was one as an entry in one of the Villainous Competitions that I chaired...

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

Haven't heard the Burning Hate theory before the link in this thread. Don't want to commit thread necromancy again to that thread, but noticed one of the pieces of "evidence" for Jozan (and hence, Pelor) being evil is him stepping on Krusk's face to scale a cliff, and Krusk never being mentioned again.
Dunno if anyone cares, but Krusk does show up in SpC in the illustration for Girallon's Blessing.

[torrasque666]

There's also the fact that the Iconic Cleric of Pelor is shown using an Evil spell, which as a Good god Pelor shouldn't be able to grant.

[Fizban]

Haven't heard the Burning Hate theory before the link in this thread. Don't want to commit thread necromancy again to that thread, but noticed one of the pieces of "evidence" for Jozan (and hence, Pelor) being evil is him stepping on Krusk's face to scale a cliff, and Krusk never being mentioned again.
Dunno if anyone cares, but Krusk does show up in SpC in the illustration for Girallon's Blessing.
Krusk shows up all over the place. Ctr+F isn't finding mention of Krusk on the repost Thurbane linked, but I would be very surprised if there are actually no pictures of Krusk printed after whatever picture has him being stepped on. Unless that picture just happens to be from one of the last 3.5 books, and even then I'd be skeptical that they'd actually checked everything. Pretty sure it's a just an extra lol on top of the Evil spell bit.

As for the Burning Hate, all it really does is remind me how boring Pelor is. A great big fan conspiracy theory justifying use as a spooky double aspected god still isn't enough to make me care about generic "I am sun god sun is good my symbol is a sun with a face" guy. I will take literally any other version of a sun god: Lathander is just the Forgotten Realms equivalent, but he has an interesting name, and title, and fluff connecting him to some of the other gods, and spells, etc. If I want a non-healy-goody sun god I'll pull Taiia out of Deities and Demigods, who is specifically a dual-aspect deity (and even has a cool PrC that happens to be tied to the non-good side of the coin).

[TheFamilarRaven]

There's also the fact that the Iconic Cleric of Pelor is shown using an Evil spell, which as a Good god Pelor shouldn't be able to grant.

I love how the natural conclusion most people draw from this is, "Wow, Pelor must be evil". Rather than say... "Huh, maybe this Jozan (the iconic 3.5 cleric) guy isn't really who he says he is." As far as I'm aware, you can pretend to be a cleric of a certain god while still gaining clerical powers from a different god....

As for the image of Jozan climbing on Krusk's face. I believe the image is in either the DMG or the PHB. Try checking under the skills chapter. I believe it relates to either aid another or the climb skill.

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

Krusk shows up all over the place. Ctr+F isn't finding mention of Krusk on the repost Thurbane linked, but I would be very surprised if there are actually no pictures of Krusk printed after whatever picture has him being stepped on. Unless that picture just happens to be from one of the last 3.5 books, and even then I'd be skeptical that they'd actually checked everything. Pretty sure it's a just an extra lol on top of the Evil spell bit.

Thurbanes link just says jozan is stepping on his allies face on page 68 of the players handbook. The picture referenced is of Jozan and Krusk. PHB is obviously quite a bit earlier than Spell Compendium. Just splitting hairs, and I tend to agree it's probably just an oversight on the part of editors and illustrators that players and fans whipped into a conspiracy.

Edit: I just looked again, it was a subsequent post from SangoProductions that said Krusk didn't show up after the pic of Jozan stepping on his face; there was nothing about Krusk not appearing after that illustration mentioned in the original Burning Hate theory.

[Deadline]

There's a feat that will do what you want (be an evil worshipper of a good god). I believe it's called Heretic of the Faith.

And for adherents of the Burning Hate theory, the feat is demonstrated using a Faerunian sun god.

Dun, dun, dunnnnnnnnn! :smallwink:

[Troacctid]

The Burning Hate isn't canon, but the Order of Illumination (CAd 179) is.

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

The Burning Hate isn't canon, but the Order of Illumination (CAd 179) is.

Am I missing something? This appears to be another LG organization.

[KillianHawkeye]

There's also the fact that the Iconic Cleric of Pelor is shown using an Evil spell, which as a Good god Pelor shouldn't be able to grant.

That's down to lazy editors and edition changes, though. The image and associated caption of Jozan, the iconic Cleric of Pelor, casting a symbol of pain was copied from the 3e Player's Handbook in which the symbol spell had no alignment components and any variation of it could be cast by any kind of Cleric.

In the 3.5 revision, the symbol spell was split into its individual components and symbol of pain became an Evil spell. It's clearly a simple editing mistake that the art and caption were reused in the 3.5 PHB despite the fact that the spell was no longer a valid option for Jozan to cast.

Occam's Razor states that the simplest explanation is usually correct. In this case, that means that instead of there being some kind of Evil Pelor conspiracy, it was just a simple mistake of reused artwork.

And really, is stepping on someone's face really a mortal sin that would only be done by a servant of Evil? Maybe it was an accident! Anything can happen when you're hanging on for dear life. I mean, Krusk is a Barbarian, that's pretty much all his face is good for if I'm going to be honest.... :smallamused:

[Troacctid]

Am I missing something? This appears to be another LG organization.
Its associated prestige class Shadowbane Inquisitor makes clerics immune to Falling, allowing them to turn evil with no meaningful repercussions to their class features.

[Particle_Man]

I don't know about evil but doesn't complete scoundrel have some options for allowing "good guy" clerics and paladins to be fairly mean, at least?

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

Its associated prestige class Shadowbane Inquisitor makes clerics immune to Falling, allowing them to turn evil with no meaningful repercussions to their class features.
Ah, should have read more carefully

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I'm especially a fan of the idea that Pelor is Zarus LE diety of Dominantion, Perfection, and Humanity after growing a beard. Nobody made this point in the linked threads, but look at their holy symbols.

Zarus- Gold medallion of a handsome human male face with and 8 pointed star being it.

Pelor- Gold medallion of a bearded human face that partly blends into a many pointed star.

Zarus's fall forced him to learn subtlety.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'm especially a fan of the idea that Pelor is Zarus LE diety of Dominantion, Perfection, and Humanity after growing a beard. Nobody made this point in the linked threads, but look at their holy symbols.

Zarus- Gold medallion of a handsome human male face with and 8 pointed star being it.

Pelor- Gold medallion of a bearded human face that partly blends into a many pointed star.

Zarus's fall forced him to learn subtlety.Voila:

https://i.imgur.com/uBvvb_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

[GrayDeath]

That spoiler is empty, sadly (unless that was the point , in that case you got me ^^).


Love the Old Burning Hate theroetizations, good it cropped up again, I think I am going to build something befitting the Theme (when I get time to play again, sigh...typing this at work....).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Voila:

https://i.imgur.com/uBvvb_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=mediumHow's that?

[GrayDeath]

"The access to Imgur was denied".

So not much better, sadly...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

"The access to Imgur was denied".

So not much better, sadly...*Sigh*

Never mind, then.

[Fizban]

Voila:

https://i.imgur.com/uBvvb_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
Psst. See my sig. Edit: following link didn't work either.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

https://www.google.com/search?q=pelor+zarus&client=ms-android-sprint-us&prmd=isnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiRyLKl-dvdAhUKk1kKHVrgCC8Q_AUIESgB&biw=360&bih=512

It's the one with the Pelor and Zarus holy symbols in a line.

[Thurbane]

http://i67.tinypic.com/sy8s5y.png

[GrayDeath]

Thank you guys, I knew that line already, still fits exceedingly well imho. ;)

[16bearswutIdo]

No, there's probably no official class made for a homebrew theory of some guy over-analyzing misprints from a book released 15 years ago.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with just changing the flavor of a class devoted to Pelor to be evil instead of good. I actually like the whole "Pelor is evil pretending to be good" thing. What Pelor Cleric class is there anyway?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Archivist for "dark knowledge man was not meant to know."

[OgresAreCute]

No, there's probably no official class made for a homebrew theory of some guy over-analyzing misprints from a book released 15 years ago.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with just changing the flavor of a class devoted to Pelor to be evil instead of good. I actually like the whole "Pelor is evil pretending to be good" thing. What Pelor Cleric class is there anyway?

Radiant Servant of Pelor in the Complete Divine book.