Half Orc Druid 3.5 Build Advice

[OrkneysFinest]

Hello everybody! I have some experience playing D&D but usually play a fighter, barbarian, monk or rogue. In my latest up coming campaign though I'm trying to do something new so I decided to play a druid. I chose the half orc race because 1) I've never played one 2) I felt like it'd be an offbeat race/class combo. Looking into it though I found out it actually had some interesting racial substitution feats. I had a basic plan for the character that I wanted to run by the board to see if it was a good idea, also to see if anyone here had better ideas on ways to improve it.

The DM is allowing anything from published SRD sources including Dragon Magazine which gives me a lot to work with, possibly too much lol. The only exception is anything psionic. The character's starting level is 8. His animal companion is going to be a magebred Ghost Tiger. One of the feats I was going to take was Natural Bond, is that even needed with the Ghost Tiger or should I use the limited feat space a druid has for something else? I was definitely taking Natural Spell, probably seems obvious but figured I'd state it anyway. I was planning on taking both Dragon Wild Shape and Exalted Wild Shape later on, is that a good idea or do you guys think it's wild shape overkill? Should I throw a feat at my summoning? Rashemi Elemental Summoning seems like a good way to go there. Any suggestions with spells I should focus on?

Thanking everyone in advance!

[eggynack]

Half-orc druids are pretty sweet. To start off with, I'd recommend going desert half-orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertHalfOrcs), preferably with the dragonborn template. Significantly better setup than a standard half-orc, as you wind up with +2 or +4 constitution instead of none. Natural bond is nice, though you're past the levels where it's at its best. I'd advise skipping one of the form adding feats. After all, you can only take one form at a time, so the utility of a second feat is significantly reduced. Rashemi elemental summoning is quite good as well. Anyways, beyond that, you may want to check out my sigged handbook, especially for spell list stuff.

[OrkneysFinest]

The guide is very well done, it's actually already helped me in some of the decisions I've already made lol. I was probably going to go with the desert variant of the half orc, while I don't like loosing darkvision for low light vision the moving the +2 to con and losing one of the -2 is a huge win. I'll look further into the dragonborn template, hopefully it doesn't have a LA.

Of the wild shape form feats which one do you think is better?

[ShurikVch]

How about the Half-Orc Druid racial subsitution levels (in the Races of Destiny)?
For example: Half-Orc penalized by -2 Cha, but 4th sub. level gives you the Bully Animal, which allow to replace Cha with Str for Wild Empathy checks (and Half-Orc gets Str bonus :smallwink:)

[Nifft]

How about the Half-Orc Druid racial subsitution levels (in the Races of Destiny)?
For example: Half-Orc penalized by -2 Cha, but 4th sub. level gives you the Bully Animal, which allow to replace Cha with Str for Wild Empathy checks (and Half-Orc gets Str bonus :smallwink:)

I'll note that nothing says you're required to use your own strength score, rather than the strength of a bear or tiger or whatever you decide to turn into after you hit level 5.

You can dump Str and still benefit greatly from that racial sub level.

[zfs]

The guide is very well done, it's actually already helped me in some of the decisions I've already made lol. I was probably going to go with the desert variant of the half orc, while I don't like loosing darkvision for low light vision the moving the +2 to con and losing one of the -2 is a huge win. I'll look further into the dragonborn template, hopefully it doesn't have a LA.

Of the wild shape form feats which one do you think is better?

If you're not feat-strapped I think both are worth taking. Both are more utility based than combat based - the medium restriction on Dragon Wild Shape means you can't get any real heavy hitters, but there are great options like Shadow Dragon (level draining breath weapon, total concealment in areas that don't have full daylight illumination), Dweomervore (telekinesis breath weapon, ability to drain charges from magic items, minor at-will telekinesis for small items), and Ssvaklor (poison on melee attacks that does paralysis/con damage and breath weapon poison for con damage, both with decent save DC's of 24).

Exalted Wild Shape gives a minor buff to your animal forms with the Celestial template and one amazing form in Blink Dog. Free action dimension door that specifically overrides the clause about needing to end your turn after using it is an insanely good ability to have, and free action Blink is a very nice free defensive buff. Unicorn gives Magic Circle Against Evil but you can already just summon one for that and one level after EWS comes online you can just summon 1d3 of them with SNA V.

[Nifft]

If you're not feat-strapped I think both are worth taking. Both are more utility based than combat based - the medium restriction on Dragon Wild Shape means you can't get any real heavy hitters, but there are great options like Shadow Dragon (level draining breath weapon, total concealment in areas that don't have full daylight illumination), Dweomervore (telekinesis breath weapon, ability to drain charges from magic items, minor at-will telekinesis for small items), and Ssvaklor (poison on melee attacks that does paralysis/con damage and breath weapon poison for con damage, both with decent save DC's of 24).

Exalted Wild Shape gives a minor buff to your animal forms with the Celestial template and one amazing form in Blink Dog. Free action dimension door that specifically overrides the clause about needing to end your turn after using it is an insanely good ability to have, and free action Blink is a very nice free defensive buff. Unicorn gives Magic Circle Against Evil but you can already just summon one for that and one level after EWS comes online you can just summon 1d3 of them with SNA V.

Aberration Wild Shape is probably better than both combined, but that's kinda fair since it costs you two feats and you need the DM to allow the spell Enhance Wild Shape (SpC).

On the other hand, an under-rated aspect of the Dragon Wild Shape feat is that you can get access to plane shift as a Gem dragon -- planar travel is usually outside of a Druid's capability, so even the limited Gem dragon version is notable.

[zfs]

Aberration Wild Shape is probably better than both combined, but that's kinda fair since it costs you two feats and you need the DM to allow the spell Enhance Wild Shape (SpC).

On the other hand, an under-rated aspect of the Dragon Wild Shape feat is that you can get access to plane shift as a Gem dragon -- planar travel is usually outside of a Druid's capability, so even the limited Gem dragon version is notable.

Yeah, Aberration Wild Shape is definitely an amazing feat, but not only does it require the initial pre-req feat and Enhance Wild Shape for getting EX abilities, it also potentially needs Assume Supernatural Ability for some of the more abusive abilities out there. And the fluff doesn't easily fit all druids - not usually a huge consideration, but taking Aberration Blood is likely going to clash with a lot of typical Druid RP.

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

Gotta agree with only take one of the wild shape feats. Would suggest talking to your DM about what familiarity restrictions you'll face, SLA's that are available in forms your familiar with should guide you.
As far as spells, depends on what your campaign world looks like/what the theme is. In the campaign I'm in currently I keep sanctified AoE spells from BoED prepared most of the time, and Sheltered Vitality to protect my ability scores; this lets me blast the area while only effecting evil creatures (and not my party). Moonbolt damages and stuns undead, Owl's Wit to increase the save DCs of your spells (get your animal companion a monks belt and boost its AC at the same time). Quill Blast can knock a big bad down to size pretty effectively. Flame strike is one of the better 4th level spells in the game (and available first thing for you if you're starting as druid8). Bite of the WereTiger or WereBear and GreaterMagic Fang are excellent combat buffs. Silvered Fang, Adamantine Fang and Align Fang to bypass damage reduction. And of course the staples of Reincarnate, Mass Resist Energy, Mass Lesser Vigor, and Vigorous Circle.
Just my 2 cents, my group is hardly a high op game. On a fun note, loved the look on my DMs face the other night when he as the BBEG taunted me in character about not fearing me in dire bear form, so I used Celestial Aspect to change a paw into a holy armblade and just laughed in character.

[zfs]

Also remember for summoning that the 6th level Half-Orc Racial Substitution level gives you the effect of Augment Summoning without needing to burn a feat on Spell Focus (Conjuration). It gives up one daily Wild Shape use, which you can gain back by using your WPL towards picking up a Druid's Vestment.

If your DM allows feat retraining, you can always use your Level 1 or 3 feat on Greenbound Summoning, then retrain it to something like Natural Bond once you have access to the good animal-only buffs. Since Exalted Wild Shape would be your 9th level feat and Dragon Wild Shape comes online at Level 12, you can also retrain EWS if you feel like it's no longer pulling its weight. Personally as someone who took both feats on my Druid I found Blink Dog alone useful enough to keep around, but Druid is pretty feat strapped so I can see why people would say limit to just one WS altering feat.

[zfs]

Gotta agree with only take one of the wild shape feats. Would suggest talking to your DM about what familiarity restrictions you'll face, SLA's that are available in forms your familiar with should guide you.

This is definitely something that severely impacts Dragon Wild Shape. For Exalted, it's pretty easy to see a Blink Dog, and since the feat specifically whitelists only 5 creatures I think most DM's would let you assume that form even if you don't have familiarity with blink dogs.

With dragons though, it's going to be a lot harder to run into or properly research all the obscure dragons that you get access to with the feat.

[Nifft]

Frozen Wild Shape is also a thing, if you and your DM like the idea of you being a ten-headed cryohydra.

[zfs]

Frozen Wild Shape is also a thing, if you and your DM like the idea of you being a ten-headed cryohydra.

Or if you just really love the Golden Compass. (Urskans rule!)

[infomatic]

More info please … do you see this character as an Exalted type? What's the rest of the party like?

Half-Orc druids naturally lend themselves to summoners with their substitution levels, so anything to support that (Rashemi Elemental Summoning from FR, Ashbound/Greenbound from Eberron, though Greenbound is probably too strong for many campaigns and I'd stay away from it.

As a summoner, you might be staying farther away from the fight to direct your minions, so Companion Spellbond is handy to keep your buffs on animal companion.

So something like:

1. Ashbound Summoning
3. Companion Spellbond or Natural Bond
6. Natural Spell
9. Rashemi Elemental Summoning
12. Dragon Wild Shape
15. Summon Elemental (IF your DM lets it work with Rashemi summoning -- it gives you all-day blasting, but Rashemi is triggered by 'casting a spell' and technically this isn't one. Quicken Spell also works well here


UPDATE: Oh, Dragon's allowed? Then consider Wild Reaper from Dragon #311, which gives you some differrent spontaneous spells and turn undead, meaning you can go a Divine Metamagic-persistent spell build. You give up many animal forms but can offset that with Aberration/Dragon forms.

[OrkneysFinest]

Thanks for all the replies and advice. Was definitely going for the Half Orc racial subs with the character. I don't think the DM will allow retraining in a feat. I was considering greenbound summoning as a feat but won't I be starting at the point where it starts losing some of its potency? Aberration Wild Shape definitely looks cool but I don't think I want to burn two feats to get it, plus I think I'd have to take the supernatural abilities feat too because unlike Dragon and Exalted it didn't really say those come with the forms. Also I'll have to check with my DM about the familiarity stuff, that's a very good point. Wild Reaper looks great but for now I'm leaning towards something a little more closer to the regular druid (half orc stuff aside). Maybe another game I'll combine Wild Reaper with the Aberration Wild Shape feats as they do seem fun to play (maybe I'll consider it this game just because I'd have a feeling it's something my DM would possibly fall in love with lol). I don't really see the character as an exalted type druid, but to my knowledge that wouldn't prevent me from taking the feat if that's the one I decide to go with. It's pretty much coming down between do I want to turn into a medium dragon more or a blink dog and celestial versions of animals.

So far the rest of my party is a Tiefling Rogue/Warlock, a human savage bard, and a dwarf fighter. It's looking like we'll be doing more open world stuff as oppose to dungeon crawling, but there will be dungeons from time to time and probably a good amount of combat though. The other thing is we were told we can't pick anything elven (characters, gear, gods from their pantheon, etc) and the DM has a big storyline reason for it, so I'm assuming they're either all dead or possibly the ruling class in his world.

[zfs]

I don't really see the character as an exalted type druid, but to my knowledge that wouldn't prevent me from taking the feat if that's the one I decide to go with. It's pretty much coming down between do I want to turn into a medium dragon more or a blink dog and celestial versions of animals.


I believe all Exalted feats have a RP requirement of your character being "exalted" as described by the Book of Exalted Deeds, though like any RP requirement it can certainly be waived or relaxed by discussing it with your DM. You're probably not going to get around needing to be Good aligned, though, which restricts you to NG. As a DM I might allow a TN character to take it if they seemed to be veering towards an alignment shift and eventually turning NG (that's what happened with the first Druid I ever played).

[Simba]

Just in case this rule was not waived by your DM:

"A druid or ranger may never acquire a magebred animal as a companion."

[ShurikVch]

Just in case this rule was not waived by your DM:

"A druid or ranger may never acquire a magebred animal as a companion."Well, this was true until Five Nations was released (p. 75):
A druid from Breland of 7th level or higher or a ranger from Breland of 14th level or higher may select a magebred brown bear as her animal companion instead of a polar bear.
A druid from Breland of 7th level or higher or a ranger from Breland of 14th level or higher may select a magebred ghost tiger as her animal companion instead of a dire lion.

[Simba]

Well, this was true until Five Nations was released (p. 75):
A druid from Breland of 7th level or higher or a ranger from Breland of 14th level or higher may select a magebred brown bear as her animal companion instead of a polar bear.
A druid from Breland of 7th level or higher or a ranger from Breland of 14th level or higher may select a magebred ghost tiger as her animal companion instead of a dire lion.

True, that is an exception. But I very much doubt that he is a druid from Breland. Especially as he plans to take Rashemi Elemental Summoning as one of his feats.
And his DM banned psionics.
Ok, maybe it is just me who thinks that mixing setting specific regional feats is a little strange.

[eggynack]

I was considering greenbound summoning as a feat but won't I be starting at the point where it starts losing some of its potency?
Yes, it's starting to lose its potency, but it's still incredibly potent. Wall of thorns stops being an incredibly overleveled weapon in your arsenal, and the loss of animal growth starts to hurt a bit, but those stat bumps are simply massive and never stop being so.


Aberration Wild Shape definitely looks cool but I don't think I want to burn two feats to get it, plus I think I'd have to take the supernatural abilities feat too because unlike Dragon and Exalted it didn't really say those come with the forms.
Aberration wild shape definitely does not require assume supernatural abilities. My handbook's section on the topic is concerned pretty much entirely with the combination of aberration forms with the spell enhance wild shape giving access to crazy extraordinary special qualities. In spite of the requirement that you cast a long casting time spell for every form, and the fact that you have to spend two feats, I'm pretty convinced it's the most optimal form adding feat.

[Ramza00]

Also remember for summoning that the 6th level Half-Orc Racial Substitution level gives you the effect of Augment Summoning without needing to burn a feat on Spell Focus (Conjuration). It gives up one daily Wild Shape use, which you can gain back by using your WPL towards picking up a Druid's Vestment.

If your DM allows feat retraining, you can always use your Level 1 or 3 feat on Greenbound Summoning, then retrain it to something like Natural Bond once you have access to the good animal-only buffs. Since Exalted Wild Shape would be your 9th level feat and Dragon Wild Shape comes online at Level 12, you can also retrain EWS if you feel like it's no longer pulling its weight. Personally as someone who took both feats on my Druid I found Blink Dog alone useful enough to keep around, but Druid is pretty feat strapped so I can see why people would say limit to just one WS altering feat.


Thanks for all the replies and advice. Was definitely going for the Half Orc racial subs with the character.

So the Half Orc Racial Substitutions are awesome. Just falt out awesome.

If you don't take the substitutions though Beckon the Frozen is a great way to end the Spell Focus Conjuration,=>Augment Summoning=>Beckon the Frozen feat chain. It adds the Cold Subtype to your monster (and a marginal cold damage boost to the natural weapons.)

Well the cold subtype means your monsters have cold immunity in case you use any cold spells that are large area, or your rashemi elemental summonings Orglash's cone of cold. The benefits of this are situationally and it is not too stressful if you instead do the racial sub, but being able to do Boreal Winds (such a cool 4th level Druid Spell) and also summoning in that area the following round and making your summons immune to the 15d4 cold damage every round is just plain cool.