The Goddess Athena as a PC

[KOLE]

Hey ya'll. Here's a fun concept I had, wondered what you all thought and if you had some optimization advice.

The flavor: Athena, by some nefarious scheme, is stripped of most of her divine power and forced to near-mortal power. She has to battle her way back to divinity by doing something heroic, luckily she runs into a band of adventurers that seem up to the task.

The crunch: V. Human (Magic Initiate) Fighter, 16/8/14/16/10/8, Find Familiar, Booming Blade, x Wizard cantrip. Go for heavy armor and shield. My table has a homebrew weapon called the Dory, it's a martial spear, d8 piercing, versatile d10, reach weapon. It hasn't caused any crazy balance issues thus far, but I'm open to suggestions if you think it should be changed. Classic hoplite style; hold down the front with extra control since we're BB'ing baddies. We also have advantage thanks to our Owl familiar. Level 3 go Eldritch Knight, level 4 grab spell sniper so we can BB at full reach with our spear.

I'm not sure where to go from here, there's a lot of options. Thinking of going for PAM sentinel cheese and adding warcaster on top of that to BB our AoO. Mainly just like the idea of Athena fighting to regain her divinity with only her hoplite tactics and her trusty Owl familiar. Any bright ideas?

[Unoriginal]

Athena would probably be better as a Battlemaster than an Eldritch Knight, IMO.

[the_brazenburn]

I think Paladin works better thematically. Oath of Devotion, of course.

Thing is, Athena in the legends is basically supposed to have 30 in every stat and Disintegrate at-will, so it's a hard concept to port. Even when gods were stripped of their divinity, they were still completely superhuman (Apollo built the walls of Troy, which were considered the strongest in the world, on his own, in a single year). Athena would probably be best statted as an NPC cleric/pally with above 15 in every stat and seriously OP magic items.

[nickl_2000]

War Cleric (devoted to herself?) would make a solid choice for Athena as well. That plays really, really well with booming blade (so you don't waste the bonus attacks) and is extremely thematic.

PAM sounds a little bit like cheese with the weapon you mentioned, but that is my personal opinion. Warcaster with BB would be a very good choice though.

[Sigreid]

I would make her a battle master / mastermind rogue. I think the combo would play well with her being the goddess of battle strategy.

[Unoriginal]

Sword Bard would work, too.

[Asmotherion]

Athena is a Goddess. Not fit to be a PC in my oppinion. Not unless it's an epic campain (Levels 20+) at the very least.

All in all, how would you feel with Jesus as a PC? Remember that there are still people out there who believe in this stuff. Reducing it to a 3rd or 5th level playing character is kinda disrespectful to them. Just sayin'

[Sigreid]

Athena is a Goddess. Not fit to be a PC in my oppinion. Not unless it's an epic campain (Levels 20+) at the very least.

All in all, how would you feel with Jesus as a PC? Remember that there are still people out there who believe in this stuff. Reducing it to a 3rd or 5th level playing character is kinda disrespectful to them. Just sayin'

My interpretation is that the ask is more for how you would stat what is effectively an avatar for Athena. A tiny fraction of her power and wisdom forced to deal with the mortal world as the equivalent of an exceptional mortal. Not the goddess in all her glory.

[Ganymede]

When I see someone trying to stat up the avatar of Athena and she has a Wisdom of 10, it gets an eyebrow raise.

[Newtonsolo313]

it’s probably better to homebrew, they’ve got a skill set that doesn’t line up with any classes(though probably closest to rogue and fighter) which is compounded by the fact that there ability scores wouldn’t be optimal for a build that represents them

[Zanthy1]

Athena is a Goddess. Not fit to be a PC in my oppinion. Not unless it's an epic campain (Levels 20+) at the very least.

All in all, how would you feel with Jesus as a PC? Remember that there are still people out there who believe in this stuff. Reducing it to a 3rd or 5th level playing character is kinda disrespectful to them. Just sayin'

Jesus as a PC would be either a cleric or bard, probably able to cast revivify. Not super powerful because some lowly soldiers captured him.

This is DnD, the only way it is disrespectful is if you blatantly call it stupid or something. Statting them at low levels means absolutely nothing. The fact that people still believe in this stuff doesn't affect anything. It sounds like you're so narrow minded that you cannot adapt a character to a low level adventure.

[KOLE]

When I see someone trying to stat up the avatar of Athena and she has a Wisdom of 10, it gets an eyebrow raise.
Hahaha. I know, you’re absolutely right. This was the third draft. The first too tried to pump Wis- but it was too MAD. I wanted to go Eldritch Knight for this as I’ve never run one before. So I had to do some fudging. But at least she in intelligent; technically not the same as wise.

I suppose one could dump EK, go BM instead and bump wisdom if they wanted to, and lorewise it might make more sense, but I’m quite drawn to the idea of a Hoplite inspired EK.

[Unoriginal]

Then maybe don't go for Athena?

[nickl_2000]

Hahaha. I know, you’re absolutely right. This was the third draft. The first too tried to pump Wis- but it was too MAD. I wanted to go Eldritch Knight for this as I’ve never run one before. So I had to do some fudging. But at least she in intelligent; technically not the same as wise.

I suppose one could dump EK, go BM instead and bump wisdom if they wanted to, and lorewise it might make more sense, but I’m quite drawn to the idea of a Hoplite inspired EK.

Why not go Ares inspired then? It would make a lot more sense than Athena for an EK.


You could also go with a deified mortal who has lost his immortality and is seeking to get it back. That gives the flavor without quite as much baggage. Good choices many include Achilles or Heracles

[the_brazenburn]

Jesus as a PC would be either a cleric or bard, probably able to cast revivify. Not super powerful because some lowly soldiers captured him.

This is DnD, the only way it is disrespectful is if you blatantly call it stupid or something. Statting them at low levels means absolutely nothing. The fact that people still believe in this stuff doesn't affect anything. It sounds like you're so narrow minded that you cannot adapt a character to a low level adventure.

He'd need to be at least 5th level (for Water Walk and Revivify and Create Food and Water), but he wasn't captured because he was weak. He let himself be captured on purpose.

I do think it's a little disrespectful, but more that it violates the forum rule about religion.

[KOLE]

I do think it's a little disrespectful, but more that it violates the forum rule about religion.
Off the top of my head, I know Thor and Zeus are referenced by name in the PHB. So we’re talking about strictly fictional versions existing within game rules- that’s not covered under the rule, or at least it shouldn’t be.

[GlenSmash!]

Off the top of my head, I know Thor and Zeus are referenced by name in the PHB. So we’re talking about strictly fictional versions existing within game rules- that’s not covered under the rule, or at least it shouldn’t be.

I once say a thread shut down because it talked about Samson.

So take that for what you will.

[the_brazenburn]

Off the top of my head, I know Thor and Zeus are referenced by name in the PHB. So we’re talking about strictly fictional versions existing within game rules- that’s not covered under the rule, or at least it shouldn’t be.

I meant talking about statting Jesus.

[Asmotherion]

Jesus as a PC would be either a cleric or bard, probably able to cast revivify. Not super powerful because some lowly soldiers captured him.

This is DnD, the only way it is disrespectful is if you blatantly call it stupid or something. Statting them at low levels means absolutely nothing. The fact that people still believe in this stuff doesn't affect anything. It sounds like you're so narrow minded that you cannot adapt a character to a low level adventure.

Going to personal attacks makes you look unessesary agressive and overall bad. Your post is also indirectly disrespectful towards the christian religion.

I'm just mentioning the fact that people need to be sensitive about all religions still in practice. It is one thing to adapt a character, and a very diferent thing to adapt a Symbol of Religious Worship.

Have your fun, even make an unapropriate joke or two when the mood is right, but don't be THAT guy. The guy who disrespects everything and kills the mood by stepping on too many toes too often.

Next time you'll try to Role Play Jesus or some Saint with a Catholic in the Party, or Athena with a Dodekatheist you'll remember me.

[the_brazenburn]

Going to personal attacks makes you look unessesary agressive and overall bad. Your post is also indirectly disrespectful towards the christian religion.

I'm just mentioning the fact that people need to be sensitive about all religions still in practice. It is one thing to adapt a character, and a very diferent thing to adapt a Symbol of Religious Worship.

Have your fun, even make an unapropriate joke or two when the mood is right, but don't be THAT guy. The guy who disrespects everything and kills the mood by stepping on too many toes too often.

Next time you'll try to Role Play Jesus or some Saint with a Catholic in the Party, or Athena with a Dodekatheist you'll remember me.

Yeah, speaking as a Catholic who can have fun, I would probably be sort of uncomfortable with somebody who wants to play Jesus in my group, but I wouldn't ban the character.

I would question (to myself) what sort of person wants to do that, and whether they'd be a fit in my group (yes, despite my ridiculous exploits, I do have some pride). Probably not.

[Corran]

Spear, check.
Owl, check.

High wisdom (cleric?), followed by a good intelligence (ritual caster wizard to get familiar and other utility?) would certainly help with the theme.

I don't know of many ways to play a PC with strategical impact, if you are not going for a spellcaster who dedicates on control (other than be than having good ideas off combat about how to engage encounters). Battlemaster maneuvres is what comes to mind, so I guess a battlemaster fighter with good stats in wis and int could fit as well.

I would focus more on what I would want to do with this character (probably try to work sth out with the DM and with the rest of the group), cause it's an ambitious character concept that can backfire easily if you don't get some buy in from everyone else at the table. I know this is not anything new, but I think it is even more important when you want to play something a bit unconventional (unconventional in contrast to what everyone else is playing, so if the rest of the players are playing the fallen deity concept then you are fine).

[Personification]

I would definitely go cleric and try to max at Wisdom STAT*with int and str below it. Either the War or UA Order domain could work. If you want the owl familiar you can do as others suggested and go VHuman for the wizard spells. I do see why you might want to take EK for the fighting thing, but I also don't think it makes sense to make a non-cleric goddess, and I agree with the people who point out that needing to dump Wis for the literal goddess of Wisdom is kind of a deal-killer for the build.

*Pun intended

[Lunali]

Jesus as a PC would be either a cleric or bard, probably able to cast revivify. Not super powerful because some lowly soldiers captured him.

This is DnD, the only way it is disrespectful is if you blatantly call it stupid or something. Statting them at low levels means absolutely nothing. The fact that people still believe in this stuff doesn't affect anything. It sounds like you're so narrow minded that you cannot adapt a character to a low level adventure.

He would need raise dead at the least as Lazarus was dead for days before he was raised. As for the soldiers, it doesn't take an army to capture someone who isn't resisting arrest.

[Zanthy1]

Going to personal attacks makes you look unessesary agressive and overall bad. Your post is also indirectly disrespectful towards the christian religion.

I'm just mentioning the fact that people need to be sensitive about all religions still in practice. It is one thing to adapt a character, and a very diferent thing to adapt a Symbol of Religious Worship.

Have your fun, even make an unapropriate joke or two when the mood is right, but don't be THAT guy. The guy who disrespects everything and kills the mood by stepping on too many toes too often.

Next time you'll try to Role Play Jesus or some Saint with a Catholic in the Party, or Athena with a Dodekatheist you'll remember me.

The post is meant to be directly disrespectful to people who insist their religion is off topic when others, though smaller, are fair game. The idea that someone wants to play a character like Athena or Jesus shouldn't be an issue about respect, and attempting to stifle ones fun based on your religion is exactly why I am in fact directly being disrespectful. I can assure you that I will not remember you, for the mere fact that DnD is a game and anyone who cannot handle a game that can relate to their own life is a waste of thought.

[Asmotherion]

The post is meant to be directly disrespectful to people who insist their religion is off topic when others, though smaller, are fair game. The idea that someone wants to play a character like Athena or Jesus shouldn't be an issue about respect, and attempting to stifle ones fun based on your religion is exactly why I am in fact directly being disrespectful. I can assure you that I will not remember you, for the mere fact that DnD is a game and anyone who cannot handle a game that can relate to their own life is a waste of thought.

So, you basically admit that your answear to what you perceive as a social issue is hitting back with disrespect. How untolerant of you.

Instead of trying to educate people to see the greater picture (that you at least imply that you see), you choose to disrespect their beliefs as well, in order to "equalise" all parties, is that it?

Now, let's imagin that everyone did the same. Wouldn't that end up in war, at the very best of cases? More so, hasn't it already, many times in the past?

D&D is all about bringing people together, reguardless of faith, religion, sex, sexual orientation, skin colour, political or social backround or otherwise. Some things should be respected to hold true to this values.

On the other hand, I understand that this is derailing way beyond a D&D thread. I won't debate the issue anymore. Just some food for thought.

[rmnimoc]

All this talk of finding things offensive reminds me, if there's one thing Athena is other than wise it's thin skinned. She gets easily offended and tends to react a little disproportionately to it (examples include the Trojan War that she was responsible for, Medusa's transformation, and turning Arachne into a spider).
Despite her wisdom she's pretty easily goaded into a fight or competition, no matter how stupid it is (see the Trojan war, Arachne, and the story of how Athens got its name). She loves pitting her wits against other people, probably helped by the fact she's wise enough to basically always win.

That last one will be pretty important, because without a lot of Athena's wisdom she'd be in a pretty bad place due to all the things she does that would fail completely if she wasn't inhumanly brilliant.

You might want to find a way to grab True Polymorph, because if there's one thing Athena enjoys above all it's apparently turning people into monsters. Also, remember to be a smug jerk to driders.

[MadBear]

Seems to me, that you're always going to run into a problem when you try and stat up mythical figures by the rules. The problem, is what they are doesn't play nicely with a balanced game, which makes sense, since they weren't designed to fit the game.

Good example: Captain America

The super soldier serum basically makes you "peak" human in regards to your physical stats. So he should have a 20 in Str/Dex/Con. In addition, he's incredibly smart (although overshadowed by even brighter geniuses in the comics). He's always fairly wise, and charismatic. So now all of a sudden you need to give him a minimum of 12 in Int/Wis/Char.

(btw, you can replace my example with Conan/Batman and many other heroes of legend who are above average in every stat and have at least a few max stats as well).

There's just no balanced way to get those stats in D&D.

The same is going to go for Athena. Even as an avatar with a small bit of power, you're not going to be able to pull off using the rulebook "this is Athena sans godhood", using the basic rules very well at all.

Now with that said, if you just want a character who is Athena inspired, that is incredibly doable. You're already on the right track. It's just that this character won't feel "like" Athena. Which is ok.

As to the issues with playing a character from someone else's religion, that's gonna be pretty simple in my mind. Use your common sense. If anyone in your group follows the Greek pantheon as real and not myth, you should double check before playing one of their gods as a PC. If they're good with it great. Btw, same would go with Jesus. If someone wanted to make a Jesus PC, that'd be fine, but you better check with your group to see if anyone is Christian (or a religion tied to Christianity), and if so, do they mind you playing a Jesus PC (also, tone probably matters, although that's up for more interpretation, based on the individuals).

[xroads]

I would go with paladin with magical initiate. Battlemaster also works well too.

[Joe the Rat]

Avoid the trap of emulating the abilities and genre qualities, and go with the themes. (This is why you don't give every modern-day hero gunslinger and monk - unarmed defense, punching and bullets are modern genre, not core aspects for most)

Athena
- Needs to be fight-capable, strategically so
- Is Wise
- Her shield (the freaking Aegis) is a big deal.
- Has an Owl.

Directions:
My daughter is running a Battlemaster Fighter with surprisingly good Wisdom and Shield Master. She's all about smacking people around to set up others, and scaring the pants off of them. Simple but has the right flavor. She also sucks at that inner peace thing, so angry and thin skinned is in there too. Keep in mind that's a trait of 94% of the gods in greek mythology, so it's more a genre rule than a character trait.

BM Fighter / MM Rogue is an inspired approach. That gets pretty close to the classic Warlord.

War Cleric or a Paladin gets you to your divine power angle; I like War cleric more as it aligns with wisdom, and puts you strategy/support first, kick Ares' ass second.

Magic Initiate for the stupid owl.