Fist of Raziel's Magic Circle and Spell Resistance

[ColossusCrusher]

So my PCs are fighting some demons, and one of the demons is going to try to summon reinforcements. One of the PCs is a Fist of Raziel, which means he has a permanent Magic Circle effect, CL = Character Level. Here's the problem. It's listed as a Supernatural Ability, which means it's not subject to Spell Resistance. But it also has a listed Caster Level, presumably for exactly this situation of summoned monsters trying to bypass the effect.

Since I'm pretty confused - and the PC was too when I mentioned it to him - I thought I'd ask you all for help. By RAW I'm pretty sure this just means that the Fist of Raziel's Magic Circle is just so [Good] that it's better than any normal one, but it can definitely be taken either way.

[AnimeTheCat]

So my PCs are fighting some demons, and one of the demons is going to try to summon reinforcements. One of the PCs is a Fist of Raziel, which means he has a permanent Magic Circle effect, CL = Character Level. Here's the problem. It's listed as a Supernatural Ability, which means it's not subject to Spell Resistance. But it also has a listed Caster Level, presumably for exactly this situation of summoned monsters trying to bypass the effect.

Since I'm pretty confused - and the PC was too when I mentioned it to him - I thought I'd ask you all for help. By RAW I'm pretty sure this just means that the Fist of Raziel's Magic Circle is just so [Good] that it's better than any normal one, but it can definitely be taken either way.

Magic Circle Against Evil doesn't allow spell resistance unless it's being used as a trap. If it's being used for protection as the ability is (I think), spell resistance doesn't matter because the spell effect says "nongood summoned creatures can't enter".

[ColossusCrusher]

Umm, the second sentence literally says "You must overcome a creature’s spell resistance in order to keep it at bay (as in the third function of protection from evil), but the deflection and resistance bonuses and the protection from mental control apply regardless of enemies’ spell resistance."

[ExLibrisMortis]

I think you're right: as a (Su) effect, it bypasses SR. The CL is provided for other purposes (or is redundant, I'm not sure).

[AnimeTheCat]

Umm, the second sentence literally says "You must overcome a creature’s spell resistance in order to keep it at bay (as in the third function of protection from evil), but the deflection and resistance bonuses and the protection from mental control apply regardless of enemies’ spell resistance."

Doh. Ignore me. I'll be in a corner contemplating my life choices.

[Troacctid]

Spell resistance does not apply against it because it is (Su). It still has a caster level because all (Su) abilities have one. It can be used to qualify for item creation feats and so on.

[Nifft]

Spell resistance does not apply against it because it is (Su). It still has a caster level because all (Su) abilities have one. It can be used to qualify for item creation feats and so on.

Huh, I guess dragons can make disproportionately awesome weapons & armor.

But they don't, because dragons don't use weapons or armor nearly so often as they see weapons & armor used against themselves.

[animewatcha]

Spell resistance does not apply against it because it is (Su). It still has a caster level because all (Su) abilities have one. It can be used to qualify for item creation feats and so on.

Are you sure about this? Cause then a pure monk could take craft wondrous and craft magic arms and armor ( ki strike is supernatural ) for making monk things. If the fight club article is anything to go by, it might be possible to make NoNA weapon properties without needing appropriate spells if one can interpret the wording that way.

[Troacctid]

Are you sure about this? Cause then a pure monk could take craft wondrous and craft magic arms and armor ( ki strike is supernatural ) for making monk things. If the fight club article is anything to go by, it might be possible to make NoNA weapon properties without needing appropriate spells if one can interpret the wording that way.
It's pretty unambiguous!

Unless otherwise noted, a supernatural ability has an effective caster level equal to the creature’s Hit Dice.
Monks already have access to bonded items and Ancestral Relic, and their crafting abilities are pretty limited without any spells, so it's not like it's a crazy exploit.

[ColossusCrusher]

I mean, with just a Supernatural ability and no spells or SLAs you're pretty much limited to things that don't require spells like weapon and armor enhancement bonuses, right?

[Troacctid]

I mean, with just a Supernatural ability and no spells or SLAs you're pretty much limited to things that don't require spells like weapon and armor enhancement bonuses, right?
You can get other people to help with the spells, and sometimes your class abilities will unlock stuff (a monk could meet a dimension door requirement with abundant step, for example), but for the most part, yeah, you're gonna be pretty limited.