Warforged Fighter - but what kind?

[Finback]

So, I'm just working up a theoretical PC, in case my current one in CoS goes down (a pallock). I've got a great backstory for this warforged idea, as we have an artificier in our group who is a big fan of Blinsky, and there's ideas for discovering a mad science lab, etc. Thus was born my idea for Abandon, the warforged.

Fluff: the group finds this humanoid figure, thrown on a scrapheap, with a big painted message on it - "ABANDON". PCs somehow activate it, and he begins following them around. He's a basic mechanised skeleton. No features other than some basic eyelights, and doesn't speak. He just follows. (I've discussed this next bit with my DM, and there's two options - I'll share the latter as a footnote) Group gets into their next combat, and Abandon just.. stands there. He doesn't defend himself, he doesn't move around - until (hopefully) one of the other PCs yells at him to "fight back".
At this point, a disembodied voice is heard, "Command protocols verified. Initiating differentiation" and he begins shifting mass. His torso thickens, his body fills out, he increases in height 50%, plating folds out, until he's the warforged juggernaut specs. His right forearm is a warhammer, and his left shifts into a shield (these can be retracted later).

So, in terms of a build - what to do? Because I see him as more a passive entity (he doesn't speak, he doesn't direct others) so I am having trouble with the Battlemaster idea (since they seem to be more of a "leader", directing others, etc. I can't see him as an archer really, either. Brute I think doesn't feel optimal, Cavalier is out because of the unlikelihood of a mount situation. So I'm veering towards Champion. Can anyone sell me on another option I'm not thinking of, or find a justification for one of the others I've previously dismissed?

(Full disclosure - I played a warforged knight in 4e and LOVED that build. Ward-358 was an absolute wrecker, designed solely to take the brunt of any attacks, and my DM was not prepared for how well I could make him respond to threats against others.)


(the other option my DM and I are considering are having the party accidentally decide his class. If they discuss what he does, and someone were to say, "maybe he can cast spells!" he would shift into being a wizard/warlock/sorcerer (and thus using the envoy template); if they discussed him in some other way, he might become the druid. It'd be a fun twist, and fits the narrative I've come up with for a "blank slate" being).

[Nifft]

There's nothing wrong with Champion, except that it's not given much to do out of combat. But that might suit your PC's personality.

Battle Master maneuvers might be fluffed as attachments that fire off at random and not deliberate leadership effects. Like, your ally gets a bonus attack when your grappling hook attachment swings out and entangles the target for a moment, until you get the grappling hook attachment stowed away again.

Eldritch Knight might be flame thrower knees and laser beam eyes-- er, embedded magical components, like broken wands that were in the rubbish bin with you, smushed into your inner core until you all congealed as one single techno-magical amalgamation. Now you have magic (yay) but it's all robot-themed like you shoot firebolt from the micro-cannon mounted on your shoulder and your prestidigitation is literally a helicopter Roomba which detaches from your abdomen and cleans stuff up for you.

[Corran]

Cavalier is out because of the unlikelihood of a mount situation.
Wouldn't it be cool though if at some point you ended riding a gorgon (adjusted if balance is an issue)?
No? Is that only me...?
But yeah, champion is probably the safest route.

[Finback]

Wouldn't it be cool though if at some point you ended riding a gorgon (adjusted if balance is an issue)?
No? Is that only me...?
But yeah, champion is probably the safest route.

My 4e warforged knight ended up riding a mechanical dire boar :D

But yes, at this point, Champion is feeling like a solid build for this role. I may MC him later into another class, like Ranger, to aim for something like Horde Breaker or Colossus Slayer, but with less magic.

[bid]

Brute I think doesn't feel optimal, Cavalier is out because of the unlikelihood of a mount situation. So I'm veering towards Champion. Can anyone sell me on another option I'm not thinking of, or find a justification for one of the others I've previously dismissed?
Brute is stronger than champion, since you are going SnB. (for a typical .65 hit, 1d4 adds 1.75 DPR while the extra 1d8 from crit on 19 adds 0.22 DPR)

Brutish durability also seems more "mechanized" than remarkable athlete.

[MagneticKitty]

I think brute fighter is broken. But if you pick juggernaut and use only your fist I think that balances it.
I vote unarmed juggernaut brute fighter.. Maybe with a shield. Mecha captain america, go!

[Vogie]

The Cavalier has a single ability that references being mounted... that's not the core of the class. That's like dismissing Arcane Archer because they could choose Druidcraft.

If you want a Warforged that runs into battle and gets all into a targets face, Cavalier is the one for you. Again, mounts are not required.

If the Warforged was designed for training purposes, Battlemaster is the best.

Personally, I think having a non-magical EK would be the most fun. Add a Spear or Javelin that can be thrown/launched, then summoned back to the hand (magnets, how do they work!?). The spells would all also be refluffed as technology:

Flamethrower "burning hands"
Point defense "magic" missiles
a "familiar" drone
Leaking "Grease" oil
Levitate, but only used on self as a preservation thing as a feather fall effect, or on other metal objects, as a magnetic levitation
Haste and Action surge acting as an Overdrive effect
and so on.

EDIT: Also, being un-disarm-able would make sense as you stated one arm actually became a warhammer.

If you have a concept of what Abandon was originally, that can help determine what "spells" Abandon was rocking. A Peacekeeper would have a bunch of non-damaging effects, such as sleep, Arcane Lock and Color Spray; A Strategist would have Mirror image, see invisibility and other illusion spells; a Spy would have things like disguise self, and Enlarge/Reduce; a Protocol droid would have things like Identify, Comprehend Languages, detect magic and the like.

If it's going to be largely silent, you could even have Abandon communicate solely using the Message Cantrip - gives the player the metabonus of physically pointing to whomever they're "speaking" to.

If you're the DM, I'd also encourage you to poke around other spell lists - Cordon of Arrows, from the ranger list, could act as a shoulder turret.

[Gydian]

The Samurai fighting spirit is so good. I dare you to argue otherwise.

Besides how awesome a robot samurai would be, though in CoS it might look out of place, a warforged fighter with one arm as a built in weapon is half the fun of playing warforged. Don't overthink it. Tank as awesome as you can tank.

Take dueling or protection fighting style, and max that strength as fast as possible. Clank around in the heavy plating configuration and crush your enemies before you.

On reading Cavalier Unwavering Mark I have to say thats also a good idea.

If I were making this build I would be making the machine that the npc's want to attack first instead of the rest of the party. hitting hard would be my second priority.

[Man_Over_Game]

Barbarian's also an option. The "Rage" could be an power-overload that routes the processing power to limbs, joints, and specialized combat modules. Naturally, you could only do it so many times throughout the day.

Unarmored Defense is applied due to the fact that the whole chassis needs room to breathe due to the power-routing function needing apt cooling and additional mobility.

Berserker is a possible match. Replace Frenzy with Overclock, and it'd fit right in.

Storm Herald seems like a good fit, releasing Fire/Lightning/Cold as part of the energy dispersal system. The fact that it can change these benefits on a level up also gives players the means to customize it slightly without making it abusable.

Zealot is also a possibility. Perhaps that's its model, The Zealot. Because of its simplified soul and diamond core (or something), it doesn't need components to be revived (intentional by design for cheap murderbots). The rest of the class is basically just "HURT THINGS MORE", which fits in with a mindless robot.

[Man_Over_Game]

Or you could totally have three different builds that it can assume, and they are described to the players:

"Heavy Assault Combat Unit. Reliable and Easy-to-use!Actions are non-adjustable"-Champion

"Ranged Assault Maverick Hunter. Versatile with Range!Specialized ammunition not included"-Arcane Archer

"Experimental Mobile Assault Unit. Powerful, customizable!Overheats with frequent use"-Storm Herald Barbarian

[LtPowers]

So, in terms of a build - what to do? Because I see him as more a passive entity (he doesn't speak, he doesn't direct others) so I am having trouble with the Battlemaster idea (since they seem to be more of a "leader", directing others, etc.

There are really only two Battlemaster maneuvers that involve directing others: Commander's Strike, and Maneuvering Strike. And Rally gives allies Temp HP. If he isn't a leader type, just don't take those three maneuvers. There are plenty of others to take.

Even the "Student of War" feature fits; it allows him to take proficiency in the tools he needs for self-modification and repair.


Powers &8^]

[Twigwit]

The Samurai fighting spirit is so good. I dare you to argue otherwise.

Ok. Fighting Spirit aims to do two things: increase your accuracy and make you more durable. It accomplishes neither well enough to justify being available only 3 times a day as compared to the Battle Master who can do both much better with a resource that replenishes on a short rest. For the accuracy bit: the main problem with granting Advantage for a turn is that there are many other sources of cheap advantage: the prone condition from a shove, Barbarian's Reckless Attack, the Tripping Maneuver, faire fire, and so on. It also isn't proactive, compared to Precision Attack which you can deploy when you almost hit but not quite, making the expenditure easy to get value from. As for durability it falls behind as well compared to Parry. Flipping a monster's attack from a hit to a miss can be a much bigger difference than the 5/10/15 temp HP Fighting Spirit gives you. For reference, the average damage output of a kobold is 4.5 on a hit. Getting to negate 3 + change worth of kobold hits at level 3 is not particularly impressive. The BM has the ability to flip any attack from a hit to a miss, potentially, and if doing so isn't a priority he can spend his Superiority Dice on damage to end the fight faster. Only getting +5 more temp hp seven levels later is laughable considering the expected damage output of monsters at that level of play. If comparing the Samurai to one of the highest rated archetypes in the game is unfair, lets compare it to the Eldritch Knight instead. The EK can spend his daily resources on things like faire fire for Advantage, shield for flipping hits to misses, and absorb elements for pocket resistance against large hits of elemental damage, and the EKs daily resources only become stronger and more plentiful over time while the Samurai's remain relatively stagnant.

As for the question the OP put forward, I would suggest EK. Warforged are phenomenal AC tanks, so having access to shield can make your AC truly absurd. The rest of the EK kit is just fun and versatile.

[Man_Over_Game]

I was thinking about it, and now I totally want to build a Warforged Arcane Archer and be a Megaman knockoff. Just rip off my arm and replace it with a Buster Cannon. Right F***ing Now.

[MagneticKitty]

I was thinking about it, and now I totally want to build a Warforged Arcane Archer and be a Megaman knockoff. Just rip off my arm and replace it with a Buster Cannon. Right F***ing Now.
Forget that, artificer thunder cannon arm time. :p

[Finback]

Besides how awesome a robot samurai would be, though in CoS it might look out of place, a warforged fighter with one arm as a built in weapon is half the fun of playing warforged. Don't overthink it. Tank as awesome as you can tank.

Heh, I have to concede, I see "robot samurai" "tank" and immediately go to this guy (https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Bludgeon_(G1)#Toys)

[Finback]

Hmm, on review, I am now rather torn with Brute or Cavalier. Brute definitely fits for the idea of an unstoppable, impervious machine - I do like the d6 bonus to saves, and the additional damage as fits a blank slate entity designed solely for combat.
On the other hand, Cavalier's reaction based stuff really does align a lot with my past character in 4e, and would serve well to protect the squishier teammates. My only concern is that it means I end up having to stay quite close to use the Unwavering Mark/Warding Maneuver (and those have a finite limitation on how many times before a long rest - and whilst my Str is through the roof, it's still a limitation). The rest of the team is a sorcerer, bard, artificier (who mostly work at range), a monk who zooms around teleporting and running, and a cleric who mostly hunkers down, spellcasting and being a semi-tank.
At this point, I'm favouring Brute for the extra damage and hardiness, and am thinking of adding Heavy Armour Master to represent the tough armour. I'm mostly thinking Duelling as the style, but am wondering if going GWF with a maul would be interesting. But then, consider them as he is now:

Abandon
Fighter/Brute 7
Str 18/Dex 13/ Con 18 /Int 8 / Wis 9/Cha 9
AC 21 (16 base, +2 shield, +3 via Integrated Protection)
HP (using fixed values) 74
feat:Heavy Armour Master (gives +1 Str, reduces non-magical melee damage by 3)
Brute Force (+1d4 damage with weapons proficient with), Brutish Durability (+1d6 all saves, if total of death save is 20+, treat as a 20)

If I go with Duelling, it keeps that high AC, but then, 19 AC with GWF means more damage AND I'm already reducing non-magical damage a fair bit.

No idea about a background. Might create one, and ask my DM. Fighter gives Atheletics and Perception, but I really can't see any other skills being narratively sensible. I might ask for prof. with some form of tools, like smith's tools, so he can at least do basic repairs for the team during long rests instead of sleeping. It could then also explain his "hit dice" - self repair mode!

[DarkKnightJin]

I'm rocking an Eldritch Knight, and I'm an AC BEAST right now, with a base AC of 20, up to 22 with a shield, and 27 if I cast Shield.

If you're sold on the non-magical side of things, you might want to have a look at the Tal'Dorei campaign's Juggernaut archetype for Barbarians.
It's not super powerful, but it'll push enemies around the battlefield.

Zealot or Storm Herald would be a good option as well.
I'd make a few options for what they could be, depending on what the party says what they want.

[Finback]

BUMP!

So, last night my paladin/warlock died to a catoblepas. In the first five minutes of the game after he finally hit his pact of the blade. Oh well. But by the end of the night, the artificer had uncovered Abandon in a junk heap. So now he's at level *8*, but I wanted to touch base and ask a couple more thoughts:

1. Do I take a second feat, or go with an ASI? At present, he's Str 19, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 10. I've given him Heavy Armour Mastery to represent him being ridiculous tough.
2. If I DO take a feat, would it be more interesting to Dual Wielder (see below for a reason) and lose the bonus - but that's compensated by his Brute Force partially; Durable, for the stat bump - we have a life cleric for healing as well, which helps, but I think he might be tough enough? Resilient, I could choose - maybe Dex? to represent just being too tough to take down - mathematically, it's "the fireball does half damage" but could be treated as "it just washes over you".

I'm also torn between making him have two warhammers (again, there's a visual), or a shield and warhammer. With the former, there's more damage, but with the latter, I can use Duelling and sit with an AC of 21.

Y'see, this is the mini I'm using for him - a Wold Guardian. (https://privateerpress.com/files/products/72045_WoldGuardian_WEB.jpg) So his arms could be either two hammers, or just treated as using one to hit while the other blocks.

Any thoughts?

[CTurbo]

BUMP!

So, last night my paladin/warlock died to a catoblepas. In the first five minutes of the game after he finally hit his pact of the blade. Oh well. But by the end of the night, the artificer had uncovered Abandon in a junk heap. So now he's at level *8*, but I wanted to touch base and ask a couple more thoughts:

1. Do I take a second feat, or go with an ASI? At present, he's Str 19, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 10. I've given him Heavy Armour Mastery to represent him being ridiculous tough.
2. If I DO take a feat, would it be more interesting to Dual Wielder (see below for a reason) and lose the bonus - but that's compensated by his Brute Force partially; Durable, for the stat bump - we have a life cleric for healing as well, which helps, but I think he might be tough enough? Resilient, I could choose - maybe Dex? to represent just being too tough to take down - mathematically, it's "the fireball does half damage" but could be treated as "it just washes over you".

I'm also torn between making him have two warhammers (again, there's a visual), or a shield and warhammer. With the former, there's more damage, but with the latter, I can use Duelling and sit with an AC of 21.

Y'see, this is the mini I'm using for him - a Wold Guardian. (https://privateerpress.com/files/products/72045_WoldGuardian_WEB.jpg) So his arms could be either two hammers, or just treated as using one to hit while the other blocks.

Any thoughts?

Since I missed this thread's first go round back in September, can you give me a rundown on what you chose for this character? He is a level 8 Warforged Brute Fighter? With dueling style? or did you multiclass some Barb in there?

My initial gut feeling is to take the boring option of +1 Str and Dex, but if I had more info...

[Finback]

Since I missed this thread's first go round back in September, can you give me a rundown on what you chose for this character? He is a level 8 Warforged Brute Fighter? With dueling style? or did you multiclass some Barb in there?

My initial gut feeling is to take the boring option of +1 Str and Dex, but if I had more info...

I'm building him as a l8 warforged Brute, yes. He has the Heavy Armour Mastery feat, but I'm trying to decide if I want to give him Dual Wielder, and equip him with two warhammers, or build him with a shield and warhammer (and thus, take Duelling). Depending on whether I want to deal more damage, or maintain that defense, would thus also decide any other feats.

So, it's basically - take an ASI instead and maybe just stay Duelling and go shield/hammer;
or take Dual Wielder, and use two hammers;
or go Duelling, and find another feat that complements well.

I'm not super fussed about being perfectly optimised, I just wonder if one path is clearly a weaker option or would clearly clash with an existing feature (I like when there's synergy, but it's ok if not, but I don't want to build in such a way that actively negates one feature (eg I wouldn't take a feat like Weapon Mastery, since as a fighter, I already have it))

[Aussiehams]

This is a bit off topic, but I've seen a lot of Warforged "Automaton" builds. Have they changed the fluff to make them more robotic in 5E?
I haven't seen the new Eberron book.

[CTurbo]

I'm building him as a l8 warforged Brute, yes. He has the Heavy Armour Mastery feat, but I'm trying to decide if I want to give him Dual Wielder, and equip him with two warhammers, or build him with a shield and warhammer (and thus, take Duelling). Depending on whether I want to deal more damage, or maintain that defense, would thus also decide any other feats.

So, it's basically - take an ASI instead and maybe just stay Duelling and go shield/hammer;
or take Dual Wielder, and use two hammers;
or go Duelling, and find another feat that complements well.

I'm not super fussed about being perfectly optimised, I just wonder if one path is clearly a weaker option or would clearly clash with an existing feature (I like when there's synergy, but it's ok if not, but I don't want to build in such a way that actively negates one feature (eg I wouldn't take a feat like Weapon Mastery, since as a fighter, I already have it))

Ah so he is still in character creation stage. Duel Wielding is better on a Brute than other archetypes.

So I'd take the TWF style and Dual Wielder, Heavy Armor Master, and +1 Str and Dex. You do get 3 options from levels 1 to 8.

[Finback]

Ah so he is still in character creation stage. Duel Wielding is better on a Brute than other archetypes.

So I'd take the TWF style and Dual Wielder, Heavy Armor Master, and +1 Str and Dex. You do get 3 options from levels 1 to 8.

Where is the +1 to Dex coming from? edit: wait, are you saying there's a third ASI? Where from?

*re-reads* HOLY PRIMUS, FATHER OF GEARS, FIGHTERS GET AN ASI AT 6TH?!

(but thanks! I think I like how he's come together now, and I think his AC is still damned high and thus appropriate for a tanky)

[CTurbo]

Where is the +1 to Dex coming from? edit: wait, are you saying there's a third ASI? Where from?

*re-reads* HOLY PRIMUS, FATHER OF GEARS, FIGHTERS GET AN ASI AT 6TH?!

(but thanks! I think I like how he's come together now, and I think his AC is still damned high and thus appropriate for a tanky)


lol yeah Fighters get an extra ASI at 6 and 14


I assumed he had 19 Str AFTER the +1 Str from Heavy Armor Master. Then you could get him +1 Str and +1 Dex with one of the other ASIs and of course throw in Dual Wielder.

[RogueJK]

If UA feats are available, the Brawny feat would also be a decent option instead of +1 STR and +1 DEX. You'd miss out on the +1 to Initiative and DEX saves/skills from boosting DEX to 12, but you'd still get +1 STR (boosting it to 20) plus Expertise in Athletics for very effective grappling/shoving. (Provided you're already proficient in Athletics.)

[solidork]

I would go either Eldritch Knight or Battlemaster so you have special moves you can announce in a robot voice.

Ex: When you use the Riposte maneuver you can be like "INITIATING COUNTER-ATTACK PROTOCOL". Or when you cast Shield you can be like "ARCANE DEFLECTORS ACTIVATED".

[Finback]

I would go either Eldritch Knight or Battlemaster so you have special moves you can announce in a robot voice.

Ex: When you use the Riposte maneuver you can be like "INITIATING COUNTER-ATTACK PROTOCOL". Or when you cast Shield you can be like "ARCANE DEFLECTORS ACTIVATED".

I've actually made him completely mute :) The only time any sound will come from him is when he "shifts" from lightweight protoform into juggernaut, and a female voice will ring out, "Initiating differentiation. Combat mode selected" (or similar), but he's otherwise silent (and faceless, no less. His face is just a blank sheet with a single glowing rune carved into it)

[Finback]

If UA feats are available, the Brawny feat would also be a decent option instead of +1 STR and +1 DEX. You'd miss out on the +1 to Initiative and DEX saves/skills from boosting DEX to 12, but you'd still get +1 STR (boosting it to 20) plus Expertise in Athletics for very effective grappling/shoving. (Provided you're already proficient in Athletics.)

He got the +1 to Str from the ASI, putting him at 20 now.
Str 20, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 10.
(Str: +2 race, +1 ASI, +1 feat)

[ShikomeKidoMi]

He got the +1 to Str from the ASI, putting him at 20 now.
Str 20, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 10.
(Str: +2 race, +1 ASI, +1 feat)

Unless you're using some kind of houserule, ASI should give you +2 to one attribute or +1 to two attributes, not +1 to one attribute.

[Finback]

Unless you're using some kind of houserule, ASI should give you +2 to one attribute or +1 to two attributes, not +1 to one attribute.

The other one went to Dex, but wasn't really notable for the build.