Ahem...

[Altair_the_Vexed]

I have a player in my D&D group who is - more than the rest of us - a little socially challenged, and he plays a supposedly dashing, suave bard. He doesn't come on this forum, so I thought I'd ask for help.

First thing you'd notice is he stutters terribly. He interrupts people to s- st- stutter - or rather, because he knows that he stutters, he tries not to and just repeats "Erm... erm... "
I think we could cope with that. We're adults and we're sensitive. But coupled with the stuttering, he has little to no grasp of social situations - persuasion is not his forte, flirting escapes him, diplomatic tact is alien to him...

Of course, this is tabletop RPG, we could just go with "X*** [not his real name], just make a diplomacy check."
But no, X*** - admirably in many respects - wants to role play the social situations. Rather than tell me what he wants to achieve and let the rolls do the talking, he just ploughs in with a drawn out stuttered mess of social wrong-footedness, and I can't understand what it is he's even trying to achieve.

The game drags while he painfully, embarrassingly tries to do his bard thing of wooing the baroness, inspiring the rabble, whatever...

How can I cope with this? What do I do? He realises he's no expert at the fast talk, but he won't give it up.

Help!

[PlatinumJester]

Awkard. He has guts for trying to roleplay despite the stutter. Maybe you should find a way for the DM to kill off his bard so he might play a fighter or less social. It's that or
A) Put up with it and suffer lots of uncomfatable situations.
B) Tell him about your problem with it then feel like a jerk and have really uncomfortable sessions (if you do this, thn that is the best you can hope for. The worst is he hates your guts and leaves)

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Ah... I'm the DM.
I'm definitely not going to kill off a character because the player has a lower CHA than his character.
If I tell him point blank, yes, that'll make for awkward sessions, I think.

[Crow]

Just deal with it. Of all the problems I see people go to Role Playing boards about...

Anyways, it could be worse. Much worse.

You have to give the guy points for trying. I get the impression from your description that this guy might be a little twitchy...Most of the people I know who stutter do so because they are trying to get the words out of their mouth faster than they can think them.

Explain to the player that this is making it difficult for you to run the game, and try to do so without sounding like an *******. Ask the player not to interrupt other players firstoff. Then ask him to work out what he wants to say before he speaks. If possible, write it out on a piece of paper before he blurts it out.

In the end, I wouldn't be bothered by this too much...like I said, there are worse problems to have.

[PlatinumJester]

Ah... I'm the DM.
I'm definitely not going to kill off a character because the player has a lower CHA than his character.
If I tell him point blank, yes, that'll make for awkward sessions, I think.

When I say kill him off I don't mean the Tarrasque comes along and eats only him, I mean when they are sleeping you pretend to roll a dice and whatever the result say an assassin attacks him. This way it seems random rather than personal.

[Crow]

When I say kill him off I don't mean the Tarrasque comes along and eats only him, I mean when they are sleeping you pretend to roll a dice and whatever the result say an assassin attacks him. This way it seems random rather than personal.

Wow, you must be the coolest DM ever.

[Damionte]

I used to sutter a bit. I understand where he's coming from. At the same time he's holding up the game. If he can't learns to sing-speak (which works for some stutterers like me.) then maybe have him write down what he wants to do.

We have a guy who stutters in our poker league. That's a frustrating round of poker each week.

[Lord Iames Osari]

If he is stuttering because he can't say the words as fast as he's thinking them, tell him to try speaking in an accent. I don't know why, but whenever I have trouble getting words out of my mouth, it helps if I switch to speaking in an accent. In my Econ class, people would even prompt me to do it if I was having trouble; it worked like a charm. It might be the same with him.

[PlatinumJester]

Wow, you must be the coolest DM ever.

Thanks.
But I don't DM. I can't be asked and I'm too unorganised.

[horseboy]

Ask the player not to interrupt other players firstoff. Then ask him to work out what he wants to say before he speaks. If possible, write it out on a piece of paper before he blurts it out.

This I can defiantly agree with. Also, since he wants to roleplay this out, maybe suggest to him to go to the local library and pick up a copy of How to Win Friends and Influence People? I know it sounds campy, but explain character study to the player. If he wants to get better at his character (and himself too) then maybe he should pick up some books on Psych and Sociology.
As well as some of the more traditionally "refinement" sources.

[Tallis]

Wow. That is a tough one. First off, try to help him relax. Most people that stutter do so when they're nervous (at least that's my understanding). The less nervous he is, the less stuttering should be a problem.
If he already knows that he's not suave, ask him to let you know what he's planning before he starts, so you can give him situational modifiers to the appropriate roll when he does well. I would avoid negative modifiers for doing badly in this case, but if he brings up a good point he should get a bonus to his diplomacy for instance, even if he, as a player, doesn't know how to say it.
Suggest some character research. Have him watch some movies with characters like the one he wants to play. Maybe he can use that same rousing speech or smooth line himself. Maybe meet with him for some sort of practice to help out if you think he'd go for it.
You might suggest to him that he give you the short version of what he's doing, just so the other players don't get left out for too long. Suggest it without assigning blame to him though.
I am hesitant to discourage him. He's obviously trying to play someone he's not, but wishes he could be, in real life. That's what this game is about for a lot of people and it might even help him to be better in real life social situations.
Hope some of this helps. Good luck.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Um... I play fair when I DM.

Now, it's no so much the stutter - which I do a bit anyway: everyone gets muddled with their words a bit - it's more the social aspect. He doesn't seem to get it when I try to role play NPCs that he's interacting with. I'm pretty sure it isn't me, I've been RPing for decades and never had too much trouble with the "acting" side of things, and the other players in the group are fine with judging my acted responses.

Thing is, my real dilemma here is that I want to get the game moving, rather than these drawn out awkward encounters (which in cinematic terms are the bits where the hero is meant to be charming and witty) - so I'm inclined to reduce the social action with X*** into "Roll Diplomacy"... BUT, I don't want to ruin his fun.

EDIT: Crickey this is turning into a hot topic!
Thanks for the advice folks.
Thing is, he's not just stumbling over what he wants his character to say, it's everything he says. And, as I mentioned above, he seems to lack a bit understanding when it comes to actual conversation.

I certainly don't want to discourage him - after all, RPG is where we can pretend to be good at stuff we'd really suck at, isn't it?

[daggaz]

He is using the game to try to compensate for or work around his social ineptness... He is probably fully (and painfully) aware of his problem, and I dont just mean the stuttering. Btw, heavy stutterers rarely have the problem that "they are thinking too fast for their mouths," rather, it is usually the complete opposite, and they have severe problems with self-confidence. The fact that the stuttering makes it harder to deal with social issues just compounds the whole problem.

The point is, this is a highly personal issue for him, and if you care anything about the guy, you should be very careful and sympathetic with how you deal with it.

On his side of it, he has a fantasy situation where he gets a chance to be that guy who is dashing and suave, and he is doing his damned best to play the roll, probably in the hope of overcoming his weaknesses in real life. In this way, since it is make-believe, he feels himself safer, safe enough to put his ego into such a position. He is still the same person tho, and until he deals with the real issues, he will continue to stutter.

Did you know that stutterers can be cured? It takes some intensive therapy, but there is a rather high success rate with it. One of the main tools used, surprise surprise, is rollplay.

My advice to you, is to look up some information about this, and then meet up with him one day and talk to him about it and present him with these possibilities...this way he knows you are tyring to help him, and if you then mention the fact that the game is being slowed down, you dont come off as such a heartless, selfish bastard, and he is far more likely to believe you. Careful tho, you should feel out how sensitive he is about the issue first, but considering his rather brave and positive behavior, I dont feel this should be a very big problem at all.

Be good, and good luck.

[Benejeseret]

Perhaps change the media.

Overall let him do his thing. But, if your patience starts to wain throw in a silence spell (trap or NPC) or deafness spell. Then the PC can only communicate through written or signlanguage. Bring along a whisper gnome cohort that gets tired of chatter and throws off a silence often.

Or, move into a drow type society or a savage society where sign language becomes the norm. It is actually a HUGE tactical advantage to get each party member to invest 2 skillpoints into a common sign language. This way deaf/silence or far distance still allows fast communication and keeps combat chatter down to a minimum. And if your group is tight and really can manage some RL signage...mouth full of cheesy's and pizza...[sign of the horns=charge, three fingers up=third enemy]...DM then knows what you are rolling and you can keep on munching :)

If he is a bard, encourage him to write. Nothing like taunting a baron in a flame war on the side of the barn, or writting that epic poem and distributing it in flyers.

For the social-skills...the more you interact with him the better it may get.
For the stutter, well, I once had a friend with a really bad stutter that completely went away once he was drunk [the stutter, not the friend].

[Shhalahr Windrider]

First of all, I want to point out that stuttering as a condition is a physiological problem. Naturally, a problem of this sort will have psychological effects. But for the most part stuttering and social ineptitude are two different problems. There are a large number of otherwise quite charasmatic people who stutter (http://www.mnsu.edu/comdis/kuster/famous/famouspws.html) that serve as a testament to that.

So before you come up with any particular solution, realize that you actually have two different problems to deal with.


Wow. That is a tough one. First off, try to help him relax. Most people that stutter do so when they're nervous (at least that's my understanding). The less nervous he is, the less stuttering should be a problem.
On the whole, it's more that the stutter gets worse when one is nervous. If you have a sufficiently severe problem to begin with, relaxation won't necessarily help much. If this player is really good friends with everyone else, I don't think there's much more you can do for the nerves situation.



He is using the game to try to compensate for or work around his social ineptness... He is probably fully (and painfully) aware of his problem, and I dont just mean the stuttering. Btw, heavy stutterers rarely have the problem that "they are thinking too fast for their mouths," rather, it is usually the complete opposite, and they have severe problems with self-confidence.
Once again, stuttering is physilogical, not psychological. Stuttering is in no way correlated to thinking ability or speed. Any solution that tries to address it that way is doomed to failure.

Any correlation with self-confidence is because stuttering lowers self-confidence rather than low self-confidence causing stuttering.


Did you know that stutterers can be cured? It takes some intensive therapy, but there is a rather high success rate with it. One of the main tools used, surprise surprise, is rollplay.
Intense therapy does work for some people. The problem is that no stuttering "cure" has worked universally. And to tell the truth, there's really no cure. Just treatment that can eliminate the symptom.

Of course, there is no verified single cause of stuttering. Perhaps there are many different causes, and that is why there is no universal therapy. Who knows?


For the stutter, well, I once had a friend with a really bad stutter that completely went away once he was drunk [the stutter, not the friend].
Yes. That's been known to happen. Unfortunately, reliance upon this treatment is bound to create a whole new set of problems. :smallwink:

(And, yes, the singing and speaking with an accent tricks have also been known to work as temporary bypasses.)

Anyway, here are a few starting resources on stuttering:
International Stuttering Association (http://www.stutterisa.org/)
Information About Stuttering (http://www.mnsu.edu/comdis/kuster/infoaboutstuttering.html)
How to React When Speaking with Someone Who Stutters (http://www.stutteringhelp.org/download/0046htr.pdf) (PDF)
Stuttering Foundation of America (http://www.stutteringhelp.org) (Site is currently broken, but may be back up soon)

I'd share some of my personal experiences with stuttering, but every stutterer is affected is affected differently by their affliction. You'd probably gain greater insight talking directly and honestly with your player about the issue.

[hr]As to social ineptitude:

Remember, even when roleplaying and speaking out what the character is supposed to be saying, you should still be using Diplomacy, Bluff, and Sense Motive. That's what the skills are there for. Why should a player invest any ranks in the skills if the simple act of talking in character negates their use?

This means even if the player is doing or saying something in a socially unacceptable fashion, a successful check indicates the character either stopped short of the words or action becoming unacceptable or he or she managed to gracefully recover from their faux pas in a way that may even enhance their reputation for wit.

When necessary, you can also break out the trusty ol' DM Hint Hammer™. If the player wants to do something monumentally stupid, ask, "Are you sure you want to do that. It doesn't sound like a good idea. Hint, hint" (Yes, actually say, "Hint, hint." Make it as obvious as you can. That's why it's a Hint Hammer!)

If a social encounter is dragging on too long, you can also have the action interrupt the scene. And it doesn't even necessarily have to be originating source of the action. A messenger can rush in with an urgent message about that Orc Raiding Party up to something that needs to be stopped within the next hour (and it just so happens to take 50 minutes to reach the raiding party's location).

Also, find out how self-aware your player is with regards to his social problems. I've met several people that new they could be completely socially inept boors and, as a result, actually encouraged their friends to let them know when they've gone too far. Their skin was thick enough that being told, "Shut up. You're acting stupid right now," didn't even faze them emotionally. And it helped them tone down their behavior when necessary. If (a big if) your player has a similar attitude towards his problems, you can probably try the same tactic.

Even working with the ingame solutions, though, I don't think you'll be able to work through this without eventually talking to the player.

[Matthew]

You could also have NPCs react favourably to his attempts, regardless of the perceived social ineptitude. Perhaps the Baroness is not offended, but charmed by his bluntness. Of course, if it was anybody else, she'd be offended. I have seen this happen in real life more times than I can count. Some people can just 'do no wrong'.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

You could also have NPCs react favourably to his attempts, regardless of the perceived social ineptitude. Perhaps the Baroness is not offended, but charmed by his bluntness. Of course, if it was anybody else, she'd be offended. I have seen this happen in real life more times than I can count. Some people can just 'do no wrong'.
Hah! I love it! That's just perfect.

It would make for an interesting running gag, too. :smallbiggrin:

Reminds me of Being There (except in Chance's case, it was an intelligence problem).

[AKA_Bait]

You could also have NPCs react favourably to his attempts, regardless of the perceived social ineptitude. Perhaps the Baroness is not offended, but charmed by his bluntness. Of course, if it was anybody else, she'd be offended. I have seen this happen in real life more times than I can count. Some people can just 'do no wrong'.

I totally endorse this fix.