Thoughts on Druid/Rogue

[elyktsorb]

I've been playing a Druid/Rogue for awhile now. Which started as 2Druid 1Rogue. At this point it's 4Druid 6Rogue.

Over time I began leaning more on Rogue related things, at first I did it evenly. 2D 2R, 3D 2R, 3D 3R, 4D 4R.

But that's when I started leaning more into Rogue. Namely because, I was planning to get to Rogue 8, since that gets Evasion, and the next ability score, and you only get a 7th level spell at Druid 13.

I mean I already know that I won't be getting archdruid, but I was never upset about that.

In the game I'm in I've already been given permission to use Sneak Attack in animal form. Thoughts on that? At this point, having wildshape is more of a utility for the Rogue than as an ability for the druid. Being able to spider into places in pretty good, and Pass Without Trace means I'm pretty much getting anywhere I want.

I suppose at this point I could just end Druid completely and go to Rogue 16. But I started as Druid, so I already have the proficiency in Wisdom saves, making lvl 15 Rogue moot.

If I do eventually decide to just go mostly Rogue, I think I'd want to get to Druid 8 for the ability to become flying creatures, which would pretty much make it so I could get into anywhere.

I have Moon Druid for the Druid Circle and I took the Assassination subclass for Rogue. I did this because Assassinate actually works in beast form by the book. Looking back, other options probably would have been better, Land would have given me more versatility, which given the Rogue, would have been good. Even Dream probably would have had more synergy overall.

Shepard, eh. Probably on par with Moon. That's another reason I have for not leveling Rogue too far, all the other Assassin features are pretty worthless to one that's part Druid. False identities and Imposter are pretty situational for a Rogue alone, let alone one that can just be a squirrel for a while.

Though proficiency with Poisoner's Kit is pretty neat, it's really fluffy having a druid knowing a lot about medicinal plants, and poisonous ones.

One thing I've noted though, is that Inquisitive Rogues can use their sneak attack against anything they pass their insight check on as long as they don't have advantage. But Swashbucklers can just use their sneak attack if no one is within 5ft of them. But that specifically states that all the other rules for sneak attack still apply, where the inquisitive feature does not.

I've assumed that the other rules would still apply for the inquisitive, but it's interesting for it to specify on one and not the other.

Thief is probably the worst with Druid, given Wildshape will give you a climb speed and well, being a Druid lets you use magic stuff.

Scout is pretty fluffy, I'm unsure of how it would do combat wise, but it definitely synergizes well from a character aspect, it also means you don't have to take Nature or Survival as a proficiency and you get Expertise with them. So at third level you could be a master of Nature, Survival, Stealth, and Theives Tools checks. Level 6 is just two more of your choice.

I don't think Mastermind would work well, given the Druid aspect mainly gives you more benefits to your sneaking, and your ability to 'Help' while in animal forms could be up to DM discretion.

Arcane Trickster might not be too bad if you put your stats both into Wis and Int, given Nature runs off of Int it fits thematically at least, even if having two casting stats kind of blows overall. But you'd mainly just be getting a lot of meh utility given you won't get any of the better features.

Anyway, thoughts on all this? I just enjoy multiclassing things to see how well they can work out overall.

[hymer]

First a nitpick: You have to get to druid 8, not 6, to get flying forms.

I agree with you that to get full use of moon wild shapes, you have to have a lot more druid in there. Being able to shift on a bonus action can be useful, but then rogues can already do a lot with their bonus action.
I also agree that Land seems the obvious choice for a rogue-heavy multiclass. Extra spells known, prepared, and more spell slots per day is all the more felt when your druid level is less than your character level.

My thought would be to go arcane trickster, and probably not worry too much about getting a high int (which could be painful). I'd use druid spells when I wanted to cast spells that require a saving throw, and pick AT spells for utility and defence, where you won't need high Int to make them work.

Edit: I always wanted to try a moon druid 10 with at least two levels of rogue, just to see what an air elemental with Cunning Action is like in a fight. :smallbiggrin:

[elyktsorb]

Oh yeah sorry, that's my b. I guess I lost track of thought there, it is 8. I'll fix that.

I'll probably get to check out being an Air Elemental.

I mean if you got heavy into Arcane Trickster I can see how it would be nice, but I still plan on going mostly Druid.

Oh and another thing, the Moon Druid gains the ability to shapeshift as a bonus action, but can still use a regular action to do so as well, so it's got some wiggle room there.

[hymer]

Oh and another thing, the Moon Druid gains the ability to shapeshift as a bonus action, but can still use a regular action to do so as well, so it's got some wiggle room there.

The probability of a permissive DM isn't the problem I was thinking about there. You can, after fall, do with an Action anything you can with a Cunning Action. The problem is more that with Cunning Action you can already do a lot of the things, that makes Bonus Action shifting so useful. For example, a moon druid in a jam can wild shape to an owl, and move and Dash to get a long way away. But with Cunning Action you can just Disangage or Dash with your Bonus Action, and so still have both movement, Disengage and Dash to get out of the way. A moon druid with Cunning Action isn't going to do much better in that case than all the other druids would.

[JellyPooga]

Druid and Rogue are my two favourite Classes and I've spent many hours wrestling with the notion if multiclassing them, but to my chagrin I've found very little synergy between them. Yes, there's some very nice hyper-specialised infiltration possibilities, but for more general play the loss or delay of the higher level features of either Class...just hurts too much to make anything but a swift dip (either way; i.e. Rogue with a Druid dip or vice-versa) viable.

That said, if you're set on the course already, then Land Druid/Arcane Trickster is probably the most versatile and features the least "loss of power"; Druid 8/Rogue 12 gives you a tidy "effective caster level" of 12, which isn't quite 7th level spells, but with this multiclass, you're only upcasting with those higher level slots anyway and there's some nice upcastable spells on the Druid list.

Rogue/Druid probably wants to focus on buffs and support more than direct damage or direct control or debuffs; as such neither Int or Wis particularly needs much focus.

[Millface]

The main question I have is this: Are beast attacks finesse?

If they can be finesse and use Dexterity there's a pretty solid build for Moon/AT. If they cannot be then I don't see a point in the multiclass at all, really. Straight Druid would just be better in every way.

Edit: looked it up and unfortunately this isn't possible, nor would their attacks work with something like Elven Accuracy. Shame, that could have been a neat build.

I still like the idea of beefing up beast form as much as possible though. Something like an Aasimar for Radiant Consumption (add your level of damage to one attack, even a natural weapon attack, plus you can fly for the duration) with some Battlemaster levels for maneuvers could be fun. I mean... A flying Brown Bear with divine claws at level 3 is kinda nuts, even for 1 minute/day.

[elyktsorb]

Well, you can actually use monk attacks in beast form. I've seen no evidence against that, I've been thinking I'm going to try a Monk Druid next.

[joelh]

This would be good for an assassin. Get behind someone as a spider or mouse, change back. Surprise!

[Mercurias]

Cunning Action combined with Thorn Whip and any kind of AoE control or debuff would be good on its own, regardless of build.

I really adore Druid all on its own, so I don't know that I'd do more than a two level dip. Maybe three for Scout or Inquisitive if I desperately wanted extra skills.

I would probably run a Dreams Druid with a Rogue dip and use Wildform while stealthed and maintaining a concentration spell. You could also run Call Lightning and even use your Balm dice from safety.

[Nhorianscum]

I've been playing a Druid/Rogue for awhile now. Which started as 2Druid 1Rogue. At this point it's 4Druid 6Rogue.

Over time I began leaning more on Rogue related things, at first I did it evenly. 2D 2R, 3D 2R, 3D 3R, 4D 4R.

But that's when I started leaning more into Rogue. Namely because, I was planning to get to Rogue 8, since that gets Evasion, and the next ability score, and you only get a 7th level spell at Druid 13.

I mean I already know that I won't be getting archdruid, but I was never upset about that.

In the game I'm in I've already been given permission to use Sneak Attack in animal form. Thoughts on that? At this point, having wildshape is more of a utility for the Rogue than as an ability for the druid. Being able to spider into places in pretty good, and Pass Without Trace means I'm pretty much getting anywhere I want.

I suppose at this point I could just end Druid completely and go to Rogue 16. But I started as Druid, so I already have the proficiency in Wisdom saves, making lvl 15 Rogue moot.

If I do eventually decide to just go mostly Rogue, I think I'd want to get to Druid 8 for the ability to become flying creatures, which would pretty much make it so I could get into anywhere.

I have Moon Druid for the Druid Circle and I took the Assassination subclass for Rogue. I did this because Assassinate actually works in beast form by the book. Looking back, other options probably would have been better, Land would have given me more versatility, which given the Rogue, would have been good. Even Dream probably would have had more synergy overall.

Shepard, eh. Probably on par with Moon. That's another reason I have for not leveling Rogue too far, all the other Assassin features are pretty worthless to one that's part Druid. False identities and Imposter are pretty situational for a Rogue alone, let alone one that can just be a squirrel for a while.

Though proficiency with Poisoner's Kit is pretty neat, it's really fluffy having a druid knowing a lot about medicinal plants, and poisonous ones.

One thing I've noted though, is that Inquisitive Rogues can use their sneak attack against anything they pass their insight check on as long as they don't have advantage. But Swashbucklers can just use their sneak attack if no one is within 5ft of them. But that specifically states that all the other rules for sneak attack still apply, where the inquisitive feature does not.

I've assumed that the other rules would still apply for the inquisitive, but it's interesting for it to specify on one and not the other.

Thief is probably the worst with Druid, given Wildshape will give you a climb speed and well, being a Druid lets you use magic stuff.

Scout is pretty fluffy, I'm unsure of how it would do combat wise, but it definitely synergizes well from a character aspect, it also means you don't have to take Nature or Survival as a proficiency and you get Expertise with them. So at third level you could be a master of Nature, Survival, Stealth, and Theives Tools checks. Level 6 is just two more of your choice.

I don't think Mastermind would work well, given the Druid aspect mainly gives you more benefits to your sneaking, and your ability to 'Help' while in animal forms could be up to DM discretion.

Arcane Trickster might not be too bad if you put your stats both into Wis and Int, given Nature runs off of Int it fits thematically at least, even if having two casting stats kind of blows overall. But you'd mainly just be getting a lot of meh utility given you won't get any of the better features.

Anyway, thoughts on all this? I just enjoy multiclassing things to see how well they can work out overall.

Druid gives a shield and guidance so it works great as a dip on rouge till rouge essentially caps out at 11.

I'm fond of dreams/rouge.