Non-Telepath Psionic Illithid?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The psionic illithid, from the XPH, gains manifesting (as a telepath), instead of SLAs. This (ostensibly) stacks with actual levels of telepath (and thus, manifesting PrCs).

What happens if someone playing as a psionic mind flayer wants to take levels in shaper? One cannot take levels in two types of psion, but they're not. They're taking levels in mind flayer followed by shaper.

Can the two "classes" be theurged? Gestalted? Do you just give them access to both disciplines in one class?

[Jeraa]

I'm not sure if there is a RAW answer, but this is my personal opinion. From the book (XPH, 184):


Creatures with psionic powers generally emulate the manifesting ability of a particular psionic class. For example, a mind flayer manifests as a 9th-level psion. When such a creature takes levels in that same class, it can stack its innate psionic powers and its class power progression together. For example, if a mind flayer adds five levels of the psion class, becoming a 5th-level mind flayer psion, it has the psionic ability (power points, powers known, and manifester level) of a 14th-level psion.

It can stack, not it must stack. That can easily be read as allowing the flayer to be a Shaper while retaining its innate Telepath manifesting ability. Power point reserves would be combined as usual, but the flayer would have 2 separate manifesting levels (one for it innate powers, and one for its class-derived powers).

Also from the Monster Manual (pg 315):


A spellcasting creature is not actually a member of a class unless its entry says so, and it does not gain any class abilities. For example, a creature that casts arcane spells as a sorcerer cannot acquire a familiar. A creature with access to cleric spells must prepare them in the normal manner and receives domain spells if noted, but it does not receive domain granted powers unless it has at least one level in the cleric class.

It is specifically about spellcasting, but the same should also apply to psionics. Mind flayers merely manifest some powers as a Psion (Telepath), but they are not psions. As such, they can freely take the psion class and choose whatever discipline they want.

[RedWarlock]

I would also, personally, say that for the racially-based manifesting levels, the illithid could select powers as a telepath, but as soon as it takes shaper levels, any powers it gains (or retrains) can only be selected as if it was a shaper. It can retain any telepath-specific powers it selected before, but cannot select new ones in any fashion.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I don't know any meaning of "telepath" besides "is a psion specialized in Telepathy", so I'd argue that the psionic illithid has manifesting as if it has a class feature (Discipline), though it does not actually have the feature (it doesn't have the class skills, for instance). Besides that little note, I agree with Jeraa: illithid are not psions, and they can do with psion levels what any non-psion can. That does mean that when they take a level in psion, they get the Discipline class feature, and that would let them be a telepath with a discipline. Not too much of a problem, in my opinion.

[Crake]

Keep in mind that, barring the minds eye alternate class features, the only thing a shaper has exclusively over a telepath is their discipline list, which isn't exactly HUGE. It would almost always be better to stack levels of telepath and pick up the shaper powers you want with the expanded knowledge feat, then use psychic reformation to juggle the power around to whatever you might need at a moment's notice, unless you want the 9th level shaper power, which is the only real thing which is shaper exclusive.