Geas, what are its limitations?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Here is the spell: https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Geas#content

This not entirely lawful level 6 party I'm DMing for is in a position where they may be willing to make a deal or take on a quest for an NPC. I figure the NPC would blackmail them a bit or just use the Bestow Curse / Geas combo to keep things in line.

What are the limits of Geas? Can the command be vague like "you can't do ANYTHING against the desires of our tribal council." Figuring the cursed PC's have to follow the council's wishes to the best of their understanding?

Does it have to be more exact?

Any tips or tricks to help me out keeping things fun? I don't mind if they complete the quest then 31 days or a year and a day later come back and attmempt vengeance.

[The Glyphstone]

Firstly, do you really need the Geas? Generally it's a terrible plot element, very overt railroading that tends to cause more harm than good. If they are willing to take on the quest in the first place, the compulsion probably shouldn't be necessary. Your NPC would probably know this as well, evaluating the risk/reward of 'they dont do it, I don't pay them, I hire someone else and pay them instead' versus 'they do it and I've made them angry for no reason'.

That said, you know your group. If they think mind control from NPCs is fun, then go for it. But I would never do this to a group willingly taking on a quest, particularly if they are already of a non-lawful bent. That's just jumping straight on their buttons to rebel.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Firstly, do you really need the Geas? Generally it's a terrible plot element, very overt railroading that tends to cause more harm than good. If they are willing to take on the quest in the first place, the compulsion probably shouldn't be necessary. Your NPC would probably know this as well, evaluating the risk/reward of 'they dont do it, I don't pay them, I hire someone else and pay them instead' versus 'they do it and I've made them angry for no reason'.

That said, you know your group. If they think mind control from NPCs is fun, then go for it. But I would never do this to a group willingly taking on a quest, particularly if they are already of a non-lawful bent. That's just jumping straight on their buttons to rebel.

Good points. Maybe I should let THE PARTY's actions determine if Geas is warranted. Honestly I figure the group could kill the whole tribe / village and the frail spellcaster I have in mind and they just may....perhaps I'll have to hint at a further reward after they complete the quest to keep them from going murdo hobo....

If the NPC does have to go the Geas route, do them vague commands work? Would you say limit the Geas to a paragraph? A sentence or two?

[UrielAwakened]

Geas is so neutered in 5e, I would happily ignore it as a PC anyway.

It's 5d10 damage. Once a day.

Woo.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Geas is so neutered in 5e, I would happily ignore it as a PC anyway.

It's 5d10 damage. Once a day.

Woo.

I hear you. For 50HP characters 25-30 a morning might be annoying but not deadly.

How would u improve it? I wouldn't want to kill them outright. PC's should only die after long hard fights!

[Tiadoppler]

I hear you. For 50HP characters 25-30 a morning might be annoying but not deadly.

How would u improve it? I wouldn't want to kill them outright. PC's should only die after long hard fights!

If and only if I had players willing to roleplay/work with the plot element, I'd consider changing Geas to behave more like Sanctuary. You must make a CHA save (or WIS or INT?) to make a decision that violates the Geas.

If I had players who were interested in that sort of plot, there'd be a vocal "I don't want to do this, but I'm being forced to" type of roleplay.

Using Geas against a party that doesn't want to deal with it is a quick way to making the campaign either railroaded, or immediately "kill the guy who Geased me"/get the cleric to cast "Remove Curse". That's not fun for anyone.


I could see it as an entry point to a campaign that started at level 1-2 though. Geas is a very real threat to a level 1 PC, and they would also not have the resources to simply dispel it. Trying to find a way out of the Geas, or complete the quest for the Evil Wizard might be an okay alternative to "you all meet in a tavern"

[KorvinStarmast]

Firstly, do you really need the Geas? It's a niche spell for some niche situations, I agree with you here.

Geas is so neutered in 5e, I would happily ignore it as a PC anyway.
It's 5d10 damage. Once a day. It becomes a resource drain, sort of like depriving a party of short rests.

I hear you. For 50HP characters 25-30 a morning might be annoying but not deadly. How would u improve it? I wouldn't want to kill them outright. PC's should only die after long hard fights! I would improve it (but improve might be a horrible word) by making the consequence more dire:
All rolls you make are at disadvantage.
Or
All saving throw rolls are made with disadvantage
Or
All attack rolls are made with disadvantage
Or
You earn one level of exhaustion every time you wake up, unless you are pursuing the geas command.

Something along those lines. Depending upon how long the adventure day is, and what kind of encounters you have.

But quite frankly, that spell is so railroady that you'd need to have the right kind of table, IMO, to even use it. I think Glyphstone nailed it.

[UrielAwakened]

I hear you. For 50HP characters 25-30 a morning might be annoying but not deadly.

How would u improve it? I wouldn't want to kill them outright. PC's should only die after long hard fights!

It needs to be a mechanical penalty beyond damage. It used to make you sickened in 3.5e.

I'd say either poisoned or disadvantage on all attack rolls and saving throws if you took the damage in the last 24 hours.

[KorvinStarmast]

It needs to be a mechanical penalty beyond damage. It used to make you sickened in 3.5e.

I'd say either poisoned or disadvantage on all attack rolls and saving throws if you took the damage in the last 24 hours.
yeah, here's the original spell from Men and Magic.

Geas: A spell which forces the recipient to perform some task (as desired by the Magic-User casting the Geas). Any attempt to deviate from the performance of the task will result in weakness, and ignoring the Geas entirely brings death. The referee must carefully adjudicate the casting and subsequent performance of the geased individual when this spell is used. Duration: Until the task is completed. Range: 3". Railroad, eh? :smallyuk: IIRC, there was a cleric spell called "Quest" that was almost the same.


Quest: This is similar to the Geas, except that the character sent upon a Quest by the Cleric is not killed by failure to carry out the service. However, the Cleric may curse him with whatever he desires for failure, and the referee should decide if such a curse will take effect if the character ignores the Quest, basing the effectiveness of the curse on the phrasing of it and the alignment and actions of the character so cursed. Rather wide open ...

[Mellack]

I would say it is better to avoid Geas altogether. If you leave it weak there is little reason for them to not ignore it. If you strengthen it then they will remove curse and probably actively work against the person who put the Geas on them. Better to give them a positive reason to do the quest.

[Legendairy]

Super party/player dependent! It can work in situations and whatnot but it’s generally better to avoid. I have changed it before to make social situations....bad. Basically the group gets magically “branded” and as they spend more time not doing the task assigned the worse it would get, almost like a leprousy situation, open sores, bleeding and smell. That way it didn’t have any hinderance on the ability to perform the task at hand (usually) just made them not want to mess around for too long.