Treantmonk evaluates spells, which are overrated and underrated

[Treantmonk]

I begin with evaluation of first level spells. We know which are the best and the worst, but there are some I find overrated and underrated.

Level 1 spell evaluation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV1Ir4IJ_S8&t=14s)

[Twigwit]

It's a good day when Treantmonk posts. Interesting with Illusory Script being the worst 1st level Spell, I think I just forgot it existed entirely.

I'm a huge fan of your guides btw, it inspired me to make my own for Xanathar's. It's in my signature if you wanna check it out, Id be really interest to hear your take on the new spells vs my own.

[Segev]

Can't watch videos here, but will try to remember to look this up later tonight.

Illusory script has always been a pretty useless spell. Only with the advent of Malleable Illusions have I actually come up with a way to use it that makes it worth the investment in resources to actually learn it: slightly psychic paper.

[sophontteks]

Seems a good enough place to discuss other under-rater and over-rated spells (espesially so more people can see this excellent video before it gets buried). I personally think catapult is a very under-rated spell.

Catapult- Its damage is even worse then chromatic orb, and people will pretty much stop right there. Heck treeantmonk didn't even have anything good to say about a spell that straight up out-damages it, so why?
- Its somatic only to cast
- It has no visual effect giving away who cast it.
- Projectiles are valid targets.
- It can quickly destroy objects.

The first two go together. Its a very easy spell to cast without notice, even if you aren't a sorcerer, and it can be used to goad fights between two other groups by making it appear as if the object was thrown by someone else. It can also be used to give the effect of an object being possessed, or possibly a deity intervening. Basically most direct damage spells like this give away who cast it, but this does not and the effect is not even given away as being magical at all, allowing for all sorts of shenanigans.

I haven't found a reason why one can not target a projectile mid-flight. Its not worn or carried, right? So, just ready an action to cast the spell at a ranged attackers projectile, and send it right back to them. Its not OP, but its a pretty handy little thing to have available. You are both dealing 3d6 and preventing damage to your party at the same time.

The last one may not be useful too often, but sometimes there is an object of interest that you want destroyed right the heck now. 3d6 to an object is pretty good. Bonus is it hurts the enemy too. You could also just chuck it off a cliff, or send it far away from the conflict zone.

What does everyone think?

[Tiadoppler]

Would you allow Catapult to be used as a delivery mechanism for Alchemist's Fire/Acid?

[sophontteks]

Would you allow Catapult to be used as a delivery mechanism for Alchemist's Fire/Acid?
I dunno, people seem to not like this stating that the damage inflicted is in the description, but its an object and the spell would break the object, which is how the damage of the object is delivered, so I don't see why its a problem in the rules...

[Treantmonk]

Can't watch videos here, but will try to remember to look this up later tonight.

Illusory script has always been a pretty useless spell. Only with the advent of Malleable Illusions have I actually come up with a way to use it that makes it worth the investment in resources to actually learn it: slightly psychic paper.

Except Psychic Paper responds to the expectations of the person reading it. Maybe if you combine with Detect Thoughts? I dunno, always open to ways for my characters to be more Whovian.

[Treantmonk]

It's a good day when Treantmonk posts. Interesting with Illusory Script being the worst 1st level Spell, I think I just forgot it existed entirely.

I'm a huge fan of your guides btw, it inspired me to make my own for Xanathar's. It's in my signature if you wanna check it out, Id be really interest to hear your take on the new spells vs my own.

I can tell you one thing, after checking a couple spells that will be in my next vid, you may not be such a fan after my level 2 evaluations ;)

I'm DMing in an hour, so time to get ready, but I'll read through within the next few days and give some more specific feedback (beyond that the graphics you chose are funny and awesome)

[Merudo]

I'm surprised you ranked Compelled Duel so highly. It's a good spell, but Wrathful Smite is so much better that it nearly makes Compelled Duel redundant.

Wrathful Smite has the following advantages:

1) It does 1d6 additional damage
2) It gives the frightened condition (disadvantage on ability checks and attack rolls + can't move closer to the caster), which I believe is much superior to the Compelled Duel effect
3) It doesn't end if you damage other creatures, or your allies attack the target
4) To remove the effect, the target needs to spend its action on a wisdom check, for which it will necessarily have disadvantage because of the frightened condition.

[sophontteks]

I'm surprised you ranked Compelled Duel so highly. It's a good spell, but Wrathful Smite is so much better that it nearly makes Compelled Duel redundant.

Wrathful Smite has the following advantages:

1) It does 1d6 additional damage
2) It gives the frightened condition (disadvantage on ability checks and attack rolls + can't move closer to the target), which I believe is much superior to the Compelled Duel effects
3) It doesn't end if you damage other creatures, or your allies attack the target
4) To remove the effect, the target needs to spend its action on a wisdom check, for which it will necessarily have disadvantage because of the frightened condition.

Far be it form me to judge which is better, but compelled duel is a ranged spell that doesn't ride on a successful hit, and the target can't run away.

[NaughtyTiger]

Catapult- Its damage is even worse then chromatic orb, and people will pretty much stop right there. Heck treeantmonk didn't even have anything good to say about a spell that straight up out-damages it, so why?


also
caster doesn't have to be the origin
multiple chances. flies at bob, bob does a dex save. continues to jim, jim does a dex save (dangit). continues flying to john, john rolls a 1!!!! john eats 3d8 bludgeoning.

[sophontteks]

also
caster doesn't have to be the origin
multiple chances. flies at bob, bob does a dex save. continues to jim, jim does a dex save (dangit). continues flying to john, john rolls a 1!!!! john eats 3d8 bludgeoning.
ooooh, I didn't think of that. You are totally right though. Wow...

I'm a big fan of the caster not being the origin. I think its a great way to instigate fights between others on the cheap. I never thought of the multiple chances though. I thought the DM was gonna freak when I used it to reflect an arrow. Its going to get even crazier.

[Legendairy]

ooooh, I didn't think of that. You are totally right though. Wow...

I'm a big fan of the caster not being the origin. I think its a great way to instigate fights between others on the cheap. I never thought of the multiple chances though. I thought the DM was gonna freak when I used it to reflect an arrow. Its going to get even crazier.

How do you use it to stop things mid flight? It’s not a reaction....wouldn’t the arrow tag whoever it was intended for when the enemy shot it then on your action you could shoot it back. (Tearing it out of your buddy for added greatness). Seriously, I’m curious now.

[Merudo]

How do you use it to stop things mid flight? It’s not a reaction....wouldn’t the arrow tag whoever it was intended for when the enemy shot it then on your action you could shoot it back. (Tearing it out of your buddy for added greatness). Seriously, I’m curious now.

Probably a readied spell.

[Legendairy]

That makes sense....I always forget about readying spells in 5e.

[Pex]

You can't have Goodberry and Find Familiar unless you multiclass or take a feat, but it is a nice teamwork tactic for two PCs who have one each. I should speak about this tactic to the druid and warlock in my paladin game. It's also unfair to chastise Chromatic Orb because Guiding Bolt exists. You couldn't have both spells unless you multiclass or take a feat. If you think it overrated, do so in comparison to other spells the character could have cast instead.

[sophontteks]

Something like catapult maybe?:smallcool:

[JackPhoenix]

You can't have Goodberry and Find Familiar unless you multiclass or take a feat, but it is a nice teamwork tactic for two PCs who have one each. I should speak about this tactic to the druid and warlock in my paladin game. It's also unfair to chastise Chromatic Orb because Guiding Bolt exists. You couldn't have both spells unless you multiclass or take a feat. If you think it overrated, do so in comparison to other spells the character could have cast instead.

Bards would beg do differ...

[Merudo]

You can't have Goodberry and Find Familiar unless you multiclass or take a feat, but it is a nice teamwork tactic for two PCs who have one each. I should speak about this tactic to the druid and warlock in my paladin game.

Agreed. The Familiar + Goodberry combo is a neat & powerful trick, but without feats/multiclassing/magical secret, it requires both a druid/ranger and a warlock/wizard.

Only a handful parties will be able to execute the combo - for everyone else, Healing Word is quite valuable. Plus, relying on familiars for healing is ill-advised, as they die in one hit.

In my mind, Healing Word is overvalued because it prevents the casting of another spell as a main action. Truth is, there is typically not much difference between Cantrip + Healing Word versus Cure Wounds + Bonus Action (such as Spiritual Weapon).

[Vorpalchicken]

I've had DMs not allow Goodberries to be fed to an unconscious party member because the spell says you must use your own action to gain its benefits. Not the way I'd run it but still..

[Toofey]

Oh my... but treantmonk... Unseen Servant.

Ritual Cast, an hour duration, and as a bonus action "can perform simple tasks a servant could do". If you have a ball bearings (and remember you could drop these as a free action per PHB pg 190) you can use it to create a 10' square of difficult terrain for your bonus action, use caltrops and it could even do damage. You could pour out oil instead of wine (and depending on how your DM reads the rules possibly spray it) tie an end of a rope to something, and towards the scandalous end of DM interpretations (depending on how healing proficiency and interact with an object are read) use healing kits as a better than healing word (or dare I say pass goodberries over short distances)

It's cheap, versatile, long lasting, and it's even useful outside of a fight. One mage to another I am extremely surprised it didn't make your list.

edit: oh, and it's bonus action doesn't block main action spellcasting.

[sophontteks]

Agreed. The Familiar + Goodberry combo is a neat & powerful trick, but without feats/multiclassing/magical secret, it requires both a druid/ranger and a warlock/wizard.

That's actually a pretty long list of ways to do it. Find familiar is already one of the top picks for magic initiate and magic initiate is one of the top feats. It seems pretty easy to get.

[ad_hoc]

Arms of Hadar is fine. It isn't as good as Thunderwave or Burning Hands in most situations, but it is a Warlock spell and they don't have those spells.

Illusory Script is fine. It does what it says it does. It lasts 10 days so long enough for its purpose. 10gp is nothing. It's a Wizard spell, they live on having just the right weird spell for weird occasions.

Ray of Sickness is terrible. You need to hit to do 2d8 poison damage. And then the creature gets a Con save against the rider which lasts only 1 turn. And it is just poisoned.

Cure Wounds is also terrible.

[Merudo]

That's actually a pretty long list of ways to do it. Find familiar is already one of the top picks for magic initiate and magic initiate is one of the top feats. It seems pretty easy to get.

It is not at all easy to get. A feat is extremely valuable, especially at low levels. And most characters will have far more productive uses for the ASI.

And you still need a druid or ranger to cast Goodberries.

And you need your familiar to be alive at the time.

Saying Healing Word is not that good because every now and then the stars align so that Healing Word is not needed is disingenuous.



Cure Wounds is also terrible.

I strongly disagree on that.

It gives you the significant versatility of being able to heal with a normal action.

The extra ~2 healing per spell level compare to Healing Word is icing.

[Treantmonk]

I'm surprised you ranked Compelled Duel so highly. It's a good spell, but Wrathful Smite is so much better that it nearly makes Compelled Duel redundant.

Wrathful Smite has the following advantages:

1) It does 1d6 additional damage
2) It gives the frightened condition (disadvantage on ability checks and attack rolls + can't move closer to the caster), which I believe is much superior to the Compelled Duel effect
3) It doesn't end if you damage other creatures, or your allies attack the target
4) To remove the effect, the target needs to spend its action on a wisdom check, for which it will necessarily have disadvantage because of the frightened condition.

The big difference is chance of effect. Wrathful smite requires a to-hit roll and provides a saving throw, then it can be ended early with a successful save.

Compelled duel, as long as the initial save is failed will last the full duration unless concentration is interrupted.

That said, Wrathful Smite is a good spell.

[Treantmonk]

Saying Healing Word is not that good

I never said that. I said it's overrated. Again, I've heard prominent YouTuber's (I can provide links if you can't find it) call it "The best spell in the game". Honestly tell me that isn't wildly overrating the spell.

If you think Overrated=bad, you aren't going to like the rest of the series. I will be talking about lots of spells that are good to really good, that are still wildly overrated.

[Treantmonk]

Oh my... but treantmonk... Unseen Servant.
.

True Story, I had to reduce a list of 6 spells, and unseen servant was the last one on the list I removed. If you don't believe me, check my wizard guide.

[Treantmonk]

I've had DMs not allow Goodberries to be fed to an unconscious party member because the spell says you must use your own action to gain its benefits. Not the way I'd run it but still..

Point them to the DMG pg 139 that says that someone else can use their action to feed an unconsion party member a healing potion (that says you must use your own action to gain its benefits)

That's what swayed my DM.

[Treantmonk]

Agreed. The Familiar + Goodberry combo is a neat & powerful trick, but without feats/multiclassing/magical secret, it requires both a druid/ranger and a warlock/wizard.

I fell across it by accident when my Hunter Ranger multiclassed into Arcane Trickster. A reasonable combo even before realizing how well goodberry and find familiar fit together.

That said, all you need is a party with a Druid or Ranger and either a Wizard, Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight. Otherwise, a variant human with Magical Secrets. I'm totally rocking an Enchanter right now...well, check out my guide to Character Building part 1 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YMMPp4eHxcA7YXeO8O3BOhsnSZ4iVSMRapjk8aucoSo/edit)

[Corran]

*casts suggestion*
You could make top 10s for your next videos, so that... *casts flattery* we can enjoy longer videos.

[Stygofthedump]

some Comments around spells per class would be cool. For example how meta magic or melee interact with spells. Can’t wait for LV 2!

[Treantmonk]

*casts suggestion*
You could make top 10s for your next videos, so that... *casts flattery* we can enjoy longer videos.

*fails save*

I will provide LOTS of videos, that will provide more in-detail discussion. Hopefully you subscribed? [/I]*casts subscribe and hit that notification bell[/I]

[Corran]

*fails save*

I will provide LOTS of videos, that will provide more in-detail discussion. Hopefully you subscribed? [/I]*casts subscribe and hit that notification bell[/I]
Haha, already did. Keep up doing Pelor's work!

[Zalabim]

Absorb Elements: It looks like it's possible to deliver the spell's damage with any melee attack, even a melee spell attack like Shocking Grasp or Thorn Whip.

Arms of Hadar: Surely there's some other spell that could replace it. Sure, it's subpar in many ways. Short range, low damage, party-unfriendly, but it's the only option Warlocks have for area damage at 1st level, it effects a broader area than Burning Hands or Thunderwave (even if you only count the frontal area), and the strength save is actually not bad. It is also not needlessly loud or capable of starting out-of-control fires (both a + and a - that last one.) All things considered, I think it's the same tier of power as Thunderwave and Burning Hands, and it's actually a spell I wouldn't object to a low level caster picking. I wouldn't put it alongside Witch Bolt, Chromatic Orb, or Ray of Sickness. I think Ray of Sickness gets overshadowed by how overwhelmingly bad Ray of Enfeeblement is on the same page.

Ray of Enfeeblement: Hit AC on a creature that uses Strength to make their attacks, and they can remove the effect with a constitution save. It doesn't even deal damage, and the MM doesn't actually say what attribute a creature is using for its attacks.

Tasha's Hideous Laughter: The spell is just great. Although, a prone, incapacitated enemy can still move. If they crawl. Which really just adds to the effect.

Goodberry (and Find Familar): "It stands to reason" any time it stands to reason that you could do something with a spell that the spell doesn't say you can do, you're making a houserule. When your houserule makes an existing, admitted-very-good spell look pointless... Well, that could be why it's a houserule and not the official rule. I think Goodberry deserves a place on the most overrated spell list alongside Prestidigitation. (Not because of what prestidigitation can or cannot do, but because of what people actually do with prestidigitation, which is very, very little.)

Potion of Healing: Already says in the PHB "Drinking or administering a potion takes an action." There is no doubt that the rules do not say you can administer a Goodberry to heal someone else, while never being quiet about that option for potions in the same book. It's almost universally allowed anyway. I know at least one DM didn't allow it, personally.

I'd like to see the 1st level spell with the best staying power: A spell that's not just a good use for 1st level slots, but also has some use from using higher level slots. Like Command.

[sophontteks]

Absorb Elements: It looks like it's possible to deliver the spell's damage with any melee attack, even a melee spell attack like Shocking Grasp or Thorn Whip.
Oh, crap. You're right! I thought it said melee weapon attack this whole time! I picked it on my wild sorcerer so i don't accidently kill myself, and always thought the later part was a waste.

[Treantmonk]

Absorb Elements: It looks like it's possible to deliver the spell's damage with any melee attack, even a melee spell attack like Shocking Grasp or Thorn Whip.

So it does! Great catch, thank you.


Tasha's Hideous Laughter: The spell is just great. Although, a prone, incapacitated enemy can still move. If they crawl. Which really just adds to the effect.

Now I'm the one incapacitated with laughter!


Goodberry (and Find Familar): "It stands to reason" any time it stands to reason that you could do something with a spell that the spell doesn't say you can do, you're making a houserule. When your houserule makes an existing, admitted-very-good spell look pointless... Well, that could be why it's a houserule and not the official rule. I think Goodberry deserves a place on the most overrated spell list alongside Prestidigitation. (Not because of what prestidigitation can or cannot do, but because of what people actually do with prestidigitation, which is very, very little.)

There are many, many things not covered specifically by rules, but when the rules provide an example, that would logically sent a precident, then it's reasonable to use that precident to cover such situations.

Healing potions require an action to consume. Pg 139 of DMG says, "administering a potion to another character requires an action."

Now a DM can interpret the rules any way they want, so nothing I say has authority at any table that I'm not the DM for, but I think it takes some twisting of reason to suggest that goodberries wouldn't work the same way.

Let me give a more obvious example.

Let's say your Barbarian finds a gear mechanism on a floor that can release the clumsy rogue from a trap. In order to release the trap, he must twist one of the gears by force.

The Barbarian says he tries to use his Strength to twist the gear.

DM says, "Not so fast! I don't think you can use Strength that way. Let's consult the rules - they say what can be done with strength."

Under Ability scores Strength says,
"A Strength check can model any attempt to lift, push, pull, or break something" It doesn't say you can use it to twist something.

None of the examples listed are twisting anything either.

Now, this is technically the case, but can't we reason that twisting something is covered by precident? All the other Strength items are using the force of your muscles to accomplish a task. Just because twisting is not specifically covered in the rules, it's reasonable to apply the same logic that has been presented for similar actions.


I know at least one DM didn't allow it, personally.
The DM is always the authority of the rules at their table. If the DM interprets a rule differently than I do, I will state my case once. If they disagree, I never argue.

[MaxWilson]

...most overrated spell list alongside Prestidigitation. (Not because of what prestidigitation can or cannot do, but because of what people actually do with prestidigitation, which is very, very little.)

IMO, Prestidigitation is worth learning even if I never use it onscreen. I'll just assume I'm using it to avoid dishwashing, freshen up my meals, make my pillow clean and warm and fluffy, keep my clothes clean, etc.

That's not to say that I wouldn't use it onscreen for these tasks as well (I have and I would), but even if ten sessions go by without me ever mentioning doing these things onscreen, I'll still feel like my quality of life was probably better with it than without it.


Potion of Healing: Already says in the PHB "Drinking or administering a potion takes an action." There is no doubt that the rules do not say you can administer a Goodberry to heal someone else, while never being quiet about that option for potions in the same book. It's almost universally allowed anyway. I know at least one DM didn't allow it, personally.

As DM, I don't allow force-feeding Goodberries to unconscious targets. Unconscious creatures don't have a swallow reflex for one thing; for another, clearly there is more to taking a Goodberry than just popping it in your mouth, or you could take it with an object interaction. If pressed I'll come up with details on what taking a Goodberry actually entails ("chew thirteen times and then swallow"?) but at any rate, it's not something you can have your familiar do on behalf of an unconscious PC.

@TreantMonk, RE: Find Familiar, you say this: "Now sometimes, the enemy might target your familiar, and then your familiar dies. So what? You cast again, as a ritual, after the battle, and you get your familiar back. And what you've done, is you've taken away one of the attacks of the enemy that could have been on you or another party member. That's a good deal."

I can't agree spending an hour and ten minutes (plus 10 gp) to nullify the effects of a single enemy attack is anywhere even close to a good deal.

[Dudu]

I missed Bless in that list.

Personally, I would rate it lower than Shield, but above Absorb Elements.
Bless is huge in early levels, the most impactful lvl 1 spell for low levels, which is what is played the most anyways. And in some campaigns, the paladin can still cast it while the cleric devotes himself into more powerful concentration spells.

Early game, it's 1d4 bonus when our proficiency is +2. Our best mod is likely +3 for a total +5 for an attack or save. And this spell gives 1/5 to almost twice this bonus. It's of immense value and constantly transform misses and fails into hits and successes. If not the number one spell, at least worth mention.

[Zalabim]

In an average combat where both sides are mostly swinging implements of violence at each other, Bless has little more value than just attacking, if any, particularly for a paladin later on if the Cleric has better things to cast. In a combat where you expect you'll have to make a saving throw or else, Bless can be a literal life-saver. If someone goes down and has to make death saving throws, Bless can also be a life-preserver.

[MaxWilson]

In an average combat where both sides are mostly swinging implements of violence at each other, Bless has little more value than just attacking, if any, particularly for a paladin later on if the Cleric has better things to cast.

Yep. Bless is better than average when Sharpshooter/GWM is involved, but even so it's not a no-brainer unless you're going up against Banshees or Yetis or something where saving throws are important.

On the other hand, clerics tend to have crummy options for "just attacking," so Bless is better than average on a pure cleric, too. Not so much on a paladin or Divine Sorlock.

[Mjolnirbear]

Point them to the DMG pg 139 that says that someone else can use their action to feed an unconsion party member a healing potion (that says you must use your own action to gain its benefits)

That's what swayed my DM.

That came up in my game once. I'd never read the phb entry and the dmg entry says nothing about administering a healing potion. I actually thought that was the only reason why Kheotom's Ointment was so useful. No other potion says it can be administered in this way. Not knowing the phb version, I got more annoyed at my players when they argued about it than they really deserved. Big argument. It is now part of my express house rules that a potion cannot be administered. It's a Big Deal if you fail to protect your healer in my games.

From a first aid perspective, never, ever, ever, give an unconscious person either food or water, unless you like playing chicken with death. This was the other reason I was so surprised my the PHB administration rule.

[Mjolnirbear]

I fell across it by accident when my Hunter Ranger multiclassed into Arcane Trickster. A reasonable combo even before realizing how well goodberry and find familiar fit together.

That said, all you need is a party with a Druid or Ranger and either a Wizard, Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight. Otherwise, a variant human with Magical Secrets. I'm totally rocking an Enchanter right now...well, check out my guide to Character Building part 1 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YMMPp4eHxcA7YXeO8O3BOhsnSZ4iVSMRapjk8aucoSo/edit)

Actually, all you need is a Tomelock with the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation. No feats, no multiclassing.

[Dudu]

In an average combat where both sides are mostly swinging implements of violence at each other, Bless has little more value than just attacking, if any, particularly for a paladin later on if the Cleric has better things to cast. In a combat where you expect you'll have to make a saving throw or else, Bless can be a literal life-saver. If someone goes down and has to make death saving throws, Bless can also be a life-preserver.


Yep. Bless is better than average when Sharpshooter/GWM is involved, but even so it's not a no-brainer unless you're going up against Banshees or Yetis or something where saving throws are important.

On the other hand, clerics tend to have crummy options for "just attacking," so Bless is better than average on a pure cleric, too. Not so much on a paladin or Divine Sorlock.
Saving throws are important for at least more than half the encounters. And the 1d4 can still mean the difference between hitting or missing, a lot of times on top of that. The price is noticeable, one action, one spellslot (which can be as low as lvl 1) and your concentration. I say it's worth it on a lot of cases and even in some battles I casted bless as a cleric in my games.

My question for you guys is, would you put Bless as the top 5 spells of the game? I think would. I know, difficult to rate, but I would mention bless in a list of the most useful/powerful spells of the 5.0.
And if we made the list more strict, such as "early game" or "cleric spells" then I'm 100% sure I would put it on top of the list.

[sophontteks]

I'd rate bless as top 5 best level 1 spells, yeah. There are very few ways to add to attack rolls and saves besides advantage. This does, at level 1 even. Even higher level spells struggle to compete for that conc spot.

[MaxWilson]

Saving throws are important for at least more than half the encounters. And the 1d4 can still mean the difference between hitting or missing, a lot of times on top of that. The price is noticeable, one action, one spellslot (which can be as low as lvl 1) and your concentration. I say it's worth it on a lot of cases and even in some battles I casted bless as a cleric in my games.

My question for you guys is, would you put Bless as the top 5 spells of the game? I think would. I know, difficult to rate, but I would mention bless in a list of the most useful/powerful spells of the 5.0.
And if we made the list more strict, such as "early game" or "cleric spells" then I'm 100% sure I would put it on top of the list.

I'm not sure. I know that as a bardlock, even though I prioritized taking it as a magical secret, I don't actually cast it very much, because battles usually fall into either the "not worth wasting a spell slot" camp or the "need my concentration for something better like Conjure Animals or Hypnotic Pattern" camp.

But my bardlock party has no Sharpshooter in it, either. Maybe it would be more attractive with a different party composition.

Overall though, no, I don't think it would make my "5 best spells in the game" list. It's a good spell, on par with Spike Growth, but not as much of a game changer as Wall of Force, Conjure Animals, Animate Dead, Counterspell, Shield, and (blech) Healing Spirit.

[Segev]

Except Psychic Paper responds to the expectations of the person reading it. Maybe if you combine with Detect Thoughts? I dunno, always open to ways for my characters to be more Whovian.

It does take a little more user-skill than Slightly Psychic Paper (e.g. using detect thoughts or having a good read on the target), but most of the time, it's just as good. It's your invitation to the palace ball. It's your letter of marque signed by the Baron of Twotownsover. It's a non-magical portrait of somebody you're looking for (with description written below). It's a wanted poster "proving" the guy you just attacked is a wanted criminal. It's secret orders from the Queen for the guards at the city gates. It's a signed confession from the Vizier you just killed, or at least a letter he was writing proving his guilt.

Some of these are usable with the spell by itself; any caster can do it. You only need 10 minutes and 10 gp for the confession letter or the secret orders, assuming you planned this in advance. (Of course, you can do the same with an Intelligence(forgery) check.) The real value is in the Malleable Illusions which allow you to spontaneously decide what it looks like moments before you have to show it.

[sambojin]

Yes, bless is good. Very good.

But onto other things, what are people's guesses for lvl2 spells? I'm kinda biased, due to my Druidism, but I'd have to chuck at least a few of these in my best/worst/underrated lists.

Best:
Pass Without Trace. Long duration, massive bonus, does stealth like nothing else does. For the entire party. Yes, you need something to be stealthy with environmentally, but if you have that and cast this spell, it's as good as done. For ages.

Mirror Image. It's a defensive spell. It's an incredibly good defensive spell. It doesn't use concentration. There are so few times that this isn't useful in combat early on, it's amazing.

Suggestion. Take a Wis save, or you will do up to two sentences worth of shenanigans. Use it on NPCs. Use it on PCs. Hell, use it for auto-hypnosis in the very rare cases where you might get mind-controlled. While the DM has plenty of leeway in just what transpires, this is the choose-your-own-adventure spell that 5th didn't really need. And nearly anyone can have it. Charm person from 3.5, but kind of better, because they WILL do that thing if possible.

Honorable mentions go to Hold Person, Invisibility, Rope Trick, Phantom Steed, Phantasmal Force, Silence, Spiritual Weapon, and god alone knows what else. Level 2 has HEAPS of good spells.

Underrated:
Levitate. It can take a ranged or caster PC out of harm's way. It can take a melee baddie out of the fight until you want to deal with them (on a Con save, but these are pretty low at this point). It can do damage in water campaigns by air-drowning things. It also levitates you if you really want that to happen.
Just a very good safety/lockdown spell with a tremendous duration.

Spiderclimb. It's almost flight for this level of adventuring. If there is *any* sort of movement related problem to confront, Spiderclimb will probably sort it. It's like Levitate in some ways, but without the potential lock down effects. Still, very underrated.

Detect Thoughts. Sure they know you're doing it. Sure, they can resist it. But if there was ever a spell that essentially said "hey DM, give us a clue on what we're supposed to be doing. Please?", then this is it. Low level enough that you can use it a bit without caring too much on wasted power. High powered enough that you can kind of un-blind yourself to "the plot" even while planning to murder-hobo everything remotely alive.

Honorable mention goes to Enlarge/Reduce. Because so you know what's silly? A gargantuan Giant Constrictor Snake. Or a Large one. Honestly, paired with a Moon Druid, this just gets stupid. Is having 30'x30' sized person on your team all that useful? No, but it's worth it for the lols.


Worst:
Umm, there's a few. Augury perhaps? Magic Mouth? Nystul's Magic Aura?
Yep, they're all really bad. That'll do for the worst. Find Traps can be here as well, easily.


Overrated:
Flaming Sphere. Look, it's a good spell. It does damage, can do quite a lot of it at higher levels, and it does it for a long time. But it's kind of fiddly to use, it does a regularly resisted type of damage, and it does it on a common'ish save. It's nice, but not quite as nice as is made out. It's still a go-to spell for Druids, but it has more caveats than you realize until you actually use it a fair bit. It can hit your own party members. Creatures you didn't ram can just move out of the way before the end of their turn. It can whiff after a save or two and then you losing concentration. It only does ground based combat. It's good, but it's not that easy to use well.

Shatter. If you couldn't maximize it in various ways. it wouldn't be that good. I'm unsure whether this should be on the underrated list as well as the overrated one. Blowing *things* up is useful. Blowing creatures up, with this, even maximized, isn't as good as you'd think. Sometimes the explicit utility is great, sometimes it's just a crappy fireball. Hard to judge. Overrated simply due to its max-damage usage, while every other spell casting class usually steers clear of it.

Misty Step. A lot of people will entirely disagree with this one. But I'm not blowing a 2nd level spell slot to be able to move 30'. I should have had something in place to ensure I didn't have to. Class skills, backgrounds, racials, other party members. Anything. Anything other than blowing a spell slot just to cover my own f'up. Not saying its not going to come up regularly. Not saying an instant "haha, you still didn't get me" isn't amazing. Just saying its a lvl2 spell slot, to do something you can kind of do without using a lvl2 spell slot, even if somewhat more riskily or action-use intensively.

[Pex]

Misty Step. A lot of people will entirely disagree with this one. But I'm not blowing a 2nd level spell slot to be able to move 30'. I should have had something in place to ensure I didn't have to. Class skills, racials, other party members. Anything. Anything other than blowing a spell slot just to cover my own f'up. Not saying its not going to come up regularly. Not saying an instant "haha, you still didn't get me" isn't amazing. Just saying its a lvl2 spell slot, to do something you can kind of do without using a lvl2 spell slot, even if somewhat more riskily or action-use intensively.

It's to get out of being grappled or restrained because you don't have proficiency in Athletics nor Acrobatics. Using the skill takes an action, so as a spellcaster you can at least still cast a cantrip. As a gish or warrior you get to attack for your action.

Moving 30 ft at the moment you need to is very important when the movement you need is vertical or diagonal.

[sophontteks]

Underrated and best. Phantasmal force. It has far more creative outlet then suggestion. You can create literally anything imaginable. Int save is the best save, targets all senses, can do damage, and the target rationalizes whatever they see (If they have no reason to, they won't try to make an ability check to see the illusion). Suggestion and Phantasmal force are both strong contenders for best. Hard to say which is better, but I think many underestimate the power of PF.

Worst is easily, EASILY Enthrall. The spell is literally useless as written. Not only is the effect just patheticly weak, but its a charm spell that doesn't charm. As written, the targets you enthrall will know you are casting a spell (They aren't charmed or in any way incapacitated afterall), which is often considered a hostile action. Its a broken spell, possibly the worst spell in the game period.

[strangebloke]

Oh my... but treantmonk... Unseen Servant.

Ritual Cast, an hour duration, and as a bonus action "can perform simple tasks a servant could do". If you have a ball bearings (and remember you could drop these as a free action per PHB pg 190) you can use it to create a 10' square of difficult terrain for your bonus action, use caltrops and it could even do damage. You could pour out oil instead of wine (and depending on how your DM reads the rules possibly spray it) tie an end of a rope to something, and towards the scandalous end of DM interpretations (depending on how healing proficiency and interact with an object are read) use healing kits as a better than healing word (or dare I say pass goodberries over short distances)

It's cheap, versatile, long lasting, and it's even useful outside of a fight. One mage to another I am extremely surprised it didn't make your list.

edit: oh, and it's bonus action doesn't block main action spellcasting.

You can also use it to create a profitable business. Google "giantitp haunted Jack shack" for a thrilling discussion on the topic.

[KorvinStarmast]

You can't have Goodberry and Find Familiar unless you multiclass or take a feat, but it is a nice teamwork tactic for two PCs who have one each. I should speak about this tactic to the druid and warlock in my paladin game. It's also unfair to chastise Chromatic Orb because Guiding Bolt exists. You couldn't have both spells unless you multiclass or take a feat. If you think it overrated, do so in comparison to other spells the character could have cast instead. 100% in accord with this post.
I've had DMs not allow Goodberries to be fed to an unconscious party member because the spell says you must use your own action to gain its benefits. Not the way I'd run it but still.. Yeah, that one is a table by table thing. I've seen it both ways.
I never said that. I said it's overrated. Again, I've heard prominent YouTuber's (I can provide links if you can't find it) call it "The best spell in the game". It is very handy in combat to get someone back up and add one more attack/target for the enemy to deal with. Best spell in the game? No. Handy as hell? Yes. I agree with your taking on the hyperbole.
I will provide LOTS of videos, Please change your time limit on your videos to about 8 minutes. (I have done some work with public speaking and video presentations in training; tighter, more concentrated 8 mniutes is better than 15 minutes as currently formatted. ) I realize you aren't doing this for pay. :smallbiggrin: (As ever, thanks for all of the great work/guides that you do).

[EdenIndustries]

Worst:
Umm, there's a few. Augury perhaps? Magic Mouth? Nystul's Magic Aura?
Yep, they're all really bad. That'll do for the worst. Find Traps can be here as well, easily.


Overrated:
Flaming Sphere. Look, it's a good spell. It does damage, can do quite a lot of it at higher levels, and it does it for a long time. But it's kind of fiddly to use, it does a regularly resisted type of damage, and it does it on a common'ish save. It's nice, but not quite as nice as is made out. It's still a go-to spell for Druids, but it has more caveats than you realize until you actually use it a fair bit. It can hit your own party members. Creatures you didn't ram can just move out of the way before the end of their turn. It can whiff after a save or two and then you losing concentration. It only does ground based combat. It's good, but it's not that easy to use well.

At the end of LMoP, Augury saved us from a TPK and two castings of Flaming Sphere (and some other good tactics, of course) literally boxed in the entire final boss fight since we could reposition them to block the enemies so we didn't take a single point of damage. I love both of these spells!

[Merudo]

At the end of LMoP, Augury saved us from a TPK and two castings of Flaming Sphere (and some other good tactics, of course) literally boxed in the entire final boss fight since we could reposition them to block the enemies so we didn't take a single point of damage. I love both of these spells!

I really hope you share the tale on how Augury saved the day. I've long been a proponent of divination spells, which I believe are grossly underused.

[Citan]

I begin with evaluation of first level spells. We know which are the best and the worst, but there are some I find overrated and underrated.

Level 1 spell evaluation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV1Ir4IJ_S8&t=14s)
Hi.

Honestly I have been kinda jumped right at the start of the video.
Stopped (for now, cause time) after the "three worst spells".

Witch Bolt? No discussion here, except for flavor this spell is the last anyone should pick. Whatever way you look at it there are better options.
It will become good once/if one day they make a "Phoenix-like" Sorcerer ("every time you roll damage"), except on lightning damage.

Arms of Hadar though? You view it as a damage spell, but its main strength is to allow escape. It is a Warlock's exclusive spell, the class that has the best blasting cantrip in the game (highest range, best damage), and try to pace itself to get as many short rests as possible. So of course you must not see this as a "get into melee and cast" spell!
You'll pick this as a deterrent if you find yourself caught up by people even though you were trying to stay as far away from the frontline as possible (in other words: a Blade Warlock trying to get into melee will most probably have better options, but a GOOlock may very well like this one).
So the kind of guy that can catch up with you although you are trying to stay away are *probably* more of the agile kind, so not that great strength-wise.
Also as a first level spell, honestly you don't care that much about enemy's saves. Most CR <=1 enemies simply don't have saves, or not much than a +1 or +2.

In short, you missed the point of the spell. It's situational (as could be said of 70% of all spells whatever level to be honest), but perfectly fine as a 1st level one (let's remind also the important bit that Warlock can swap spells, you're not stuck with them for life).

Illusory Script? Sure, the fact it's not a ritual makes it a bit of a bother, but it can be used. There are usually other ways to achieve things you could do with it, but its forte is allowing manipulation information when you don't have precise control over timeframe or other context of information transmission.
Simple example: you have some important information to convey to your local leader, on enemy troops in neighbouring region. You are unsure of whether communication canal is secured or not (the guy you send with message, or any counselor around the lord), and you obviously cannot make the travel yourself, since it takes some days and you need to stay on track.
Using Illusory Script, you can not only ensure the Lord is the only one able to decipher the message. You also display normal behaviour of delivering a message describing your advancement as is expected of you. Not only that, you could actually work towards the expectation of a message being intercepted and write a message insinuating that you have no clue about what's happening whereas your lord will have accurate information and act upon it.
More generally, any time there is potential danger in information interception, Illusory Script is one of the tools one can use.

In short, "because people around couldn't give me use-cases the spell is worthless" is a sad case of stopping at the surface. Because we tend to refer to people with similar tastes or mindsets. :)

I'll come back later once I've seen all video. :)

[EdenIndustries]

I really hope you share the tale on how Augury saved the day. I've long been a proponent of divination spells, which I believe are grossly underused.

I'd be happy to! It's actually quite simple (Spoilers ahead)

Once you finish the boss encounter there's a statue with gems in the eyes. I believe as loot in the boss encounter, or maybe shortly before, we had received a Scroll of Augury. I'm 99% confident this scroll was part of the adventure since the DM was super by-the-book, but I could be wrong. Anyway, I figured it might be trapped. I can't remember if I tried detect magic on it or not. But anyway, I thought it would be a good chance to try out Augury. So we did, and got the Woe result. I figured, alright, I won't pry the gemstones out of the eyes. And that was the end of that. Months later I had the thought to see what would've happened if we had taken the gems. Basically, the roof collapses doing a very large amount of damage that would've instantly killed the entire party. So without even fully knowing what the Woe result meant, Augury saved us!

So there you go! I really love divination spells too. Takes a bit of a cooperative DM sometimes (though without a cooperative DM, seems like you may have other problems anyway) but they can be very fun!

[diplomancer]

Moving 30 ft at the moment you need to is very important when the movement you need is vertical or diagonal.

Indeed. One of the most fun moments I had with my 5th level Paladin was when a bunch of archers were attacking us from a flat roof (oh no, worst possible thing for a Paladin) and I had my horse (from Find Steed) charge towards the building and we just misty stepped up and brought down the pain on them.

That was the moment my DM learned how powerful the doubling the effect of a spell on your Steed was, he even double checked the text.

[Beelzebubba]

It's a good day when Treantmonk posts.

There's a little brown thing on the tip of your nose.


Interesting with Illusory Script being the worst 1st level Spell, I think I just forgot it existed entirely.

Then maybe you haven't done enough political intrigue-based campaigns? I've seen a Warlock with Mask of Many Faces, a Rogue with forgery skill, and a Wizard with this spell cause an all-out faction war in a medium-sized city. We never had to even draw our weapons and our enemies started killing each other.

(It's great to deliver apparently meaningless messages to people that were actually incriminating evidence, then a few days later tip enemies off to perform a search and frame people. THAT was fun, and had nothing to do with DPR or action economy or whatever.)

It's not useful for every game, but then again, Keen Mind - often overlooked (by Treantmonk as well, IIRC) - has about the same level of impact. It absolutely rules a few styles of play - hex crawls, and player mapping in a 'fog of war' - that aren't really in style right now.

[Citan]

I'm surprised you ranked Compelled Duel so highly. It's a good spell, but Wrathful Smite is so much better that it nearly makes Compelled Duel redundant.

Wrathful Smite has the following advantages:

1) It does 1d6 additional damage
2) It gives the frightened condition (disadvantage on ability checks and attack rolls + can't move closer to the caster), which I believe is much superior to the Compelled Duel effect
3) It doesn't end if you damage other creatures, or your allies attack the target
4) To remove the effect, the target needs to spend its action on a wisdom check, for which it will necessarily have disadvantage because of the frightened condition.
Also, why certainly Compelled Duel has the advantage of requiring only one save to stick, it's actually kinda cumbersome to use: you have to...
- Attack only this target.
- Follow it to keep the "max 30 feet" (in case it succeed on save to move freely).
- And have nobody else attack it one way or another.

First condition is not a big deal usually, but sometimes you'll still want to switch targets because another creature, although less dangerous overall, may at that instant bring an ally to 0 or do something else dangerous (especially if enemy party actually tricked you in misjudging each one's actual threat level ^^).
Second condition is already more serious: if the target succeeds, it could retreat near friends: now you either abandon your effect or follow through and put yourself in much greater risk. Or you could yourself be punched/grappled away. Or the target could just outrun you (high speed, fly, movement spell).
Third condition is even more a bother: not only does this mean you have to take care of the creature alone, if by any chance it takes some AOE damage for whatever reason it ends. It also does not prevent it to actually attack targets unless you have space enough to position yourself in such a way it would "break the rule" to get into melee range of others.

So... Yeah. I do love Compelled Duel, and it's usually one I keep prepared on a Paladin, but that does not prevent me to see its flaws. Its worth depends on some part on party composition, on some part on environment, and on a big part on party coordination and enemy composition.


Far be it form me to judge which is better, but compelled duel is a ranged spell that doesn't ride on a successful hit, and the target can't run away.
True about the fact it's a ranged spell. That one is a good thing.
As for the "can't run away", it's actually untrue, confer above. It's difficult but it can be done.


You can't have Goodberry and Find Familiar unless you multiclass or take a feat, but it is a nice teamwork tactic for two PCs who have one each. I should speak about this tactic to the druid and warlock in my paladin game. It's also unfair to chastise Chromatic Orb because Guiding Bolt exists. You couldn't have both spells unless you multiclass or take a feat. If you think it overrated, do so in comparison to other spells the character could have cast instead.
Yeah.

Honestly, in general, I don't get the point of making judgements on spells outside classes. To be blunt I find this completely pointless.
Chromatic Orb, to pick that example, would have a different intrinsical value on a (Evoker) Wizard, a Draconic or Divine Soul Sorcerer, a (multiclassed) Tempest Cleric, or a Bard.

Shield and Absorb Elements too: these are great overall, but for any caster, at low levels, this is a heavy price to pay: yeah, you're still alive, but you blew half or third your daily resources to be able to cast cantrips. o/
Again, I love those spells, and I *usually* pick them up because I'm on the cowardish side of the line, but the few times I play with people I know are true teamplayers (and make a balanced team), I'll try to avoid using them as much as possible, even if sometimes I'll go down (at least until I get enough high level spells to have nothing else to use 1st slots on).
For a Hexblade Warlock for example, not only is it an extremely expensive resource consumption at levels 1-2, it's an heresy really to keep it after 3rd level. Because it doesn't scale.
(Ok, I admit I'm too strong on this. If a Shield can keep a Fear or Hypnotic Pattern from breaking, it was worth the cast... But I'd personally always pick a few levels in Sorcerer or Bard to have "reserved 1st level slots" for those).
While on an Eldricht Knight for example, which usually makes a point going into melee and smaking with weapon attacks while taking hits instead of others, and has little spell known and little slots, those are among the top three best spells to have ready at all times from those he can learn as a single-class because they improve its strengths without harming action economy or "main class feature" economy (here weapon attacsk).

Yeah, really, sorry, I don't see any value in comparing spells "by themselves" to rate them one another, especially when you don't spell out when you speak of combinations of "available spells" that are not available without feats or multiclassing, or both.
(While on that point: saying that Find Familiar is the best spell on an Eldricth Knight is, audacious, to say the least. Unless no-feat games. Otherwise it's a huge waste considering the Fighter, with his two extra feats, can just grab Ritual Caster feat with this as the free ritual whenever he wants).

[Chaosmancer]

Posted this on YouTube, but why not double dip?

Some good points, though I think a big reason Chromatic orb gets taken so much is the variable damage. 3d8 is low, but the ability to fire damage a plant creature who is vulnerable and thunder damage an earth elemental who is vulnerable with the same spell is pretty good. Plus, it's often the back up spell when your normal damage is a bad type.

A big thing I agree with is Tasha's though. We've got a guy who uses it a lot right now (with horrid puns) and it has wrecked fights. I can tell you why to you'd attack a target though, cause your DM is having a bad dice night. Had it cast on a Draegolith who failed 8 times with that advantage. Single enemy fight and we just surrounded and beat it up cause it kept failing that save. Fun times for 90% of the table ;)



Worst:
Umm, there's a few. Augury perhaps? Magic Mouth? Nystul's Magic Aura?
Yep, they're all really bad. That'll do for the worst. Find Traps can be here as well, easily.

Going to have to disagree with Nystul's being the worst. It can do lots of fun things.

Though perhaps my love for it comes from two other factors. I'm a DM and I give enemies spells that make sense.

Here's a question, are there wizards in Hell? Yes? Then why doesn't that Succubus register as a normal person to Divine sense? Or better yet as a Celestial?

Lich wants to hide their phylactery? A lot easier when it registers as a mundane item and is hidden under the flagstone.

A year is nothing to immortals.

I grant, I have to be careful not to let it become a grudge spell, but using it sparingly can have great results. And PCs can do things like switch out a McGuffin for a replica or hide an extraplanar ally from discovery, or trick a ward set to only allow entry to certain types of beings.

All situational, but far from "worst" territory I think.

I'd say similar things about Magic Mouth.


Shatter. If you couldn't maximize it in various ways. it wouldn't be that good. I'm unsure whether this should be on the underrated list as well as the overrated one. Blowing *things* up is useful. Blowing creatures up, with this, even maximized, isn't as good as you'd think. Sometimes the explicit utility is great, sometimes it's just a crappy fireball. Hard to judge. Overrated simply due to its max-damage usage, while every other spell casting class usually steers clear of it.

Probably still overrated, but I do want to point out that Shatter is one of the few spells to specifically mention it works on items and terrain.

Was in a war scenario once and used Shatter to destroy siege ladders right as the enemy got to the top, with the twenty ft diameter could hit two or three at once.

Again, situational usage, but it made me feel really clever to destroy terrain and items the enemy would use to shift things to our advantage.

That game also had me fall in love with sleet storm. A bottle neck and sleet storm let that storm sorcerer hold an entire enemy group back by himself while my allies freed and armed some prisoners. Plus, a staircase with no railing was involved. DM had less hair after that night.

[Dudu]

I'm not sure. I know that as a bardlock, even though I prioritized taking it as a magical secret, I don't actually cast it very much, because battles usually fall into either the "not worth wasting a spell slot" camp or the "need my concentration for something better like Conjure Animals or Hypnotic Pattern" camp.

But my bardlock party has no Sharpshooter in it, either. Maybe it would be more attractive with a different party composition.

Overall though, no, I don't think it would make my "5 best spells in the game" list. It's a good spell, on par with Spike Growth, but not as much of a game changer as Wall of Force, Conjure Animals, Animate Dead, Counterspell, Shield, and (blech) Healing Spirit.

I see, well, in your bardlock case, he does have access to Hypnotic Pattern and Conjure Animals. In a lot of combat situations, Hypnotic Pattern is way more impactful than bless. It's also a 3rd level spell, so we have to account for that.

Still, there are battles that the bless is too pivotal. I mean, every solo big boss battle, such as vs a dragon. So, it's hugely impactful early game, but can be impactful as well later game in some specific situations (that are not THAT specific).

And the party composition most certainly plays a role. In one party I had a fellow ranger sharpshooter, and another party we had this GWM fighter who could "power atk" with much more liberally. The ammount of threat we could eliminate in a single round plus the ammount of saves we passed with a single casting of a lvl 1 spell even when we had access to lvl 4 spells is what makes me rate Bless so highly.



Misty Step. A lot of people will entirely disagree with this one. But I'm not blowing a 2nd level spell slot to be able to move 30'. I should have had something in place to ensure I didn't have to. Class skills, racials, other party members. Anything. Anything other than blowing a spell slot just to cover my own f'up. Not saying its not going to come up regularly. Not saying an instant "haha, you still didn't get me" isn't amazing. Just saying its a lvl2 spell slot, to do something you can kind of do without using a lvl2 spell slot, even if somewhat more riskily or action-use intensively.
Misty Step isn't a good spell as soon as you get it. But when you get access to higher level spells and is not sure on what to do with your lower lvl spells, Misty Step is wonderful. Also, as the campaign goes, the enemies might have more means to beeline into the wizard and try to grab him. If that situation happens with my party wizard and he doesn't have a misty step to get out of it I'll just slap him into his forehead, mid and late game it's borderline mandatory to have your misty step and your shield prepared for any arcane caster.

[sambojin]

Posted this on YouTube, but why not double dip?

*snip*
Shatter.
Probably still overrated, but I do want to point out that Shatter is one of the few spells to specifically mention it works on items and terrain.

Was in a war scenario once and used Shatter to destroy siege ladders right as the enemy got to the top, with the twenty ft diameter could hit two or three at once.

Again, situational usage, but it made me feel really clever to destroy terrain and items the enemy would use to shift things to our advantage.

That game also had me fall in love with sleet storm. A bottle neck and sleet storm let that storm sorcerer hold an entire enemy group back by himself while my allies freed and armed some prisoners. Plus, a staircase with no railing was involved. DM had less hair after that night.

Yep. Mentioned that the blowing up of stuff potentially puts it on either list. Maximized or not. Combat-wise/HP-damage-wise, it's overrated due to character build specificallioushness. But dropping buildings on people never loses its flare.

Sleet Storm is incredible. Because not only can it do what it says it does, it can also prone flyers out of the air. Or mega-break concentration. It's a volume effect that says nothing about being cast on a ground-point at casting time. It does that thing at cast, then it does its duration thingy. It does Dex saves to prone within 150', 40' radius, 20' height. It does concentration saves vs your pumped up Wis. It does them for a while. It can also make difficult terrain on the ground, if you want it to. It's also "lights out" for non-darkvision types using torches, or a firefighting tool. It's also a "heavily obscured" area, which can be good, bad, irrelevant, depending on how your DM plays vision (it's still a patch of heavily obscured vision "terrain", between you and them, at worst). Very versatile :)
(don't even ask if you can slant the cylinder, so the enemy's end is on the ground, but yours isn't, movement-wise.... But what about hills? Seriously, keep it 5e simple. Or don't. Lol.
Is casting it so the cylinder effect is one foot off the ground more useful to you? 6" perhaps, just so the other effects happen, but it's not RAW difficult terrain? Haha try it, watch your DM slap you. :) )
Aggressive, defensive (in the right party against the right encounter, utilitarian. It's one of my top picks for lvl3 underrated or most powerful. But we're not even up to lvl2 yet. Can't wait to see Treantmonk's picks. He might want to go to a 5 of each. So many good/bad/underrated spells at lvl2.....)

[sambojin]

*bump*
Don't want to miss the next episode.....