Is the Snarl intelligent?

[qbits]

Before the gods were able to contain it, the Snarl killed off the Eastern Pantheon... and only the Eastern Pantheon, as far as we know. Why did it specifically focus on the Eastern Pantheon, eliminating every single god(dess) with a green quiddity?

I see a few possibilities. Perhaps the Eastern Pantheon were grouped together, and the Snarl found it easiest to kill those that were close by it, or something along those lines. Perhaps the Eastern Pantheon were somehow more easily susceptible to the Snarl, because they argued more, or "joined us" "way back at the beginning" (so they were more vulnerable, like the Dark One was when he was first created).

Or, just maybe, the Snarl is not only intelligent but smart and knowledgeable about the nature of gods, focusing on killing off only one quiddity to prevent the gods from containing it on purpose.

The problem is, there doesn't seem to be much evidence for this. From what we see, the Snarl kills almost at random from within the rifts. It never speaks. It only kills things that happen to be bear the rifts... except for in Laurin's case. Perhaps, in #945, the Snarl reached out of the rifts with destruction not because it suddenly noticed Laurin's senses, but because it was in danger somehow?

I'm not entirely convinced, but I think it's an interesting idea. Thoughts, anyone?

[Rrmcklin]

The Eastern Gods happened to be closest when it launched its surprise attack. You're trying prescribe a specific reason to things that don't really need it.

[KorvinStarmast]

Why did it specifically focus on the Eastern Pantheon, eliminating every single god(dess) with a green quiddity? It seemed like a good idea at the time.

[qbits]

In strip #274, the Snarl was "malevolent" and "systematically executed" the Eastern Pantheon.

You might be right, but it still seems strange. The Pantheons seem very large and often divided. It suspends my disbelief that they were all nearby the Snarl and nobody else was nearby. Why didn't a single member of the Eastern Pantheon have time to hide away like the rest of the gods did?

Also, the Snarl turned to the mortal world as soon as it had defeated the Eastern Pantheon. Why not focus on the gods, who seem more likely to be nearby, as they also reside in the Outer Planes? Unless the Eastern Pantheon were all on the mortal plane when the Snarl attacked.

Maybe you're right, and I'm just grabbing at ideas that seem cool.

[M Placeholder]

In strip #274, the Snarl was "malevolent" and "systematically executed" the Eastern Pantheon.

You might be right, but it still seems strange. The Pantheons seem very large and often divided. It suspends my disbelief that they were all nearby the Snarl and nobody else was nearby. Why didn't a single member of the Eastern Pantheon have time to hide away like the rest of the gods did?


Perhaps the other Pantheons made sure that the Eastern one would be the first to fall, and buy the other gods enough time to seal the Snarl?

[Rrmcklin]

In strip #274, the Snarl was "malevolent" and "systematically executed" the Eastern Pantheon.

You might be right, but it still seems strange. The Pantheons seem very large and often divided. It suspends my disbelief that they were all nearby the Snarl and nobody else was nearby. Why didn't a single member of the Eastern Pantheon have time to hide away like the rest of the gods did?

Also, the Snarl turned to the mortal world as soon as it had defeated the Eastern Pantheon. Why not focus on the gods, who seem more likely to be nearby, as they also reside in the Outer Planes? Unless the Eastern Pantheon were all on the mortal plane when the Snarl attacked.

Maybe you're right, and I'm just grabbing at ideas that seem cool.


Perhaps the other Pantheons made sure that the Eastern one would be the first to fall, and buy the other gods enough time to seal the Snarl?

It seems to me that you both are kind of missing an obvious point: The Giant wanted to illustrate the Snarl's god-killing potential by having it wipe out an entire pantheon, so it did. They all needed to be together for that, so they were, and he wanted them all dead, so they all died.

If that hurts your suspension of disbelief, that honestly sounds more like a you problem than a writing problem. Authors do things like that all the time, when the precise details don't actually matter for the point they want to make. And we've been given no indication the precise details do matter.

[qbits]

You're right. It's probably Rule of Plot.

[martianmister]

Snarl is intelligent, and it's getting more and more intelligent by every passing minute.

[Goblin_Priest]

Maybe it's like a scent thing? Once it had a taste of the green, it just kept going for more?

It could be a bunch of things. Doesn't really seem all that improbable to me, no need to dismiss it merely as rule of plot.

[Rrmcklin]

Maybe it's like a scent thing? Once it had a taste of the green, it just kept going for more?

It could be a bunch of things. Doesn't really seem all that improbable to me, no need to dismiss it merely as rule of plot.

You say "dismiss" like that's a bad thing, though. A lot of things happen because of "rule of plot", that's not somehow inherently bad.

If there is a greater reason, okay. But if there isn't, it's not like it actually hurts the story in anyway.

[Erloas]

The snarl is not omnipresent, once it found a weakness in the world it had to leave out that one point, that point happened to be in the east. So all of the eastern gods were there and it had to kill them before moving on. Destroying mortals rather than moving on to the other pantheons was simply a matter of distance, it just hadn't reached the other gods yet.

[NerdyKris]

There's a difference between "what is the in story reason for this" and "why did the author do this", and I think you're dismissing the former as being the latter.

The story still needs to flow logically, even if "this needs to happen" is the reason for it. And the in story reason is probably just that the Eastern gods were in the same area. This was before the rules designed to prevent another Snarl.

[Rrmcklin]

There's a difference between "what is the in story reason for this" and "why did the author do this", and I think you're dismissing the former as being the latter.

The story still needs to flow logically, even if "this needs to happen" is the reason for it. And the in story reason is probably just that the Eastern gods were in the same area. This was before the rules designed to prevent another Snarl.

Assuming that was directed at me, I'm not dismissing anything. I'm acknowledging that an "in story" reason doesn't actually add anything to this particular thing.

If were talking about the current story, then, yes, we'd need an explicit reason for why all of which ever pantheon were all together. But the Eastern Pantheon's deaths were backstory given basically in cliffnotes, and solely to get the point across about how dangerous the Snarl is.

That's all that matters. They could have been gathered to celebrate Zeus' birthday or something, and absolutely nothing in the current story would be affected by it.

[qbits]

So the consensus [edit: general opinion] is that the Snarl does not have conscious thought [edit: sapience]?

[Erloas]

It is clear that the Eastern pantheon had to be wiped out for the color theory to have any meaning at this point. From a plot point, which we didn't know until now, they all had to die. It makes sense from a story point too, because the Snarl can't be everywhere at once so it started killing what was around it. That was clearly in the East and where the Eastern gods were. Clearly the gods were killed many worlds ago, since this world is only a 3 color world. The gods clearly didn't know it was going to escape, so they probably spent a lot more time on the world, it was only after they realized what it could do that they decided it probably wasn't a good idea to hang out so close to the world.

　
I'm going to say that the Snarl probably does have conscious thought, but not necessarily intelligent. It is more like an animal than a plant. It has perception of the world around it, but it isn't like wizard or evil villain smart, it doesn't have a strategic plan or making complex tactical choices, but it will notice and react to changes around it, like exploring the hole Laurin opened in it's cage.

[Kish]

So the consensus is that the Snarl does not have conscious thought?
There is no consensus. It's one man, one vote: Rich Burlew is the Man, so he's got the Vote.

What is currently established is: 1) The Snarl is intelligent enough to kill. 2) The Snarl, through clawing its way out of countless imprisonments in new worlds, has never taken any effective action to avoid being imprisoned in the next one. 3) If it has ever tried to communicate, Thor is not mentioning it.

[qbits]

Sorry, by "consensus" I simply meant the general opinion on the subject. And, nevermind about the conscious thought, just the general opinion on the subject is that the Snarl isn't very intelligent. Thank you all for informing me about the Snarl.

[Rynael]

If the Snarl does somehow turn out to be, or have been, intelligent, it has to be in a way that explains the fact that the Snarl has continuously allowed the gods to imprison it in countless worlds without ever taking action to escape as the gods were weaving the threads of creation around it. Although his word is not necessarily 100% reliable, Shojo's story heavily implied that the Snarl could have escaped while the gods were creating its prison, but did not know what was going on around it.

I would accept a revelation that we have underestimated the Snarl all along, as long as it explains that potential plot hole, but I'm not taking any bets right now.

[woweedd]

If I had to guess. i'd say yes...In the same way a particularly dim rat is intelligent. I doubt it possess self-awareness, it's just a ball of primal rage that hates everything.

[Erloas]

Catching it unaware in the world trap once could be a lot of things. Since it has been shown to have been trapped many times, that leads to one of two possibilities: Either it is very unaware of what is going on around it, which seems unlikely given what we've seen around the rifts and that the gods are worried about it getting loose. Or more likely that they throw in the towel on a world when it is otherwise still very much intact and just starting to crack to be sure it is contained before it gets a chance to do anything, so they essentially create a new world around the old and destroy the old in the process, never giving the snarl even a moment between the old prison failing and the new one in it's place.

[qbits]

Should I close this thread? Sorry, I don't know what you do when the purpose of a thread you made has been served (my hypothesis now has string [edit: strong] evidence against it). Do you just leave the post alone, or is there a way to close it?

[godsflunky]

There are ways for moderators to close threads, but usually only when they are in violation of a rule (or redundant). Just leave this thread alone; it will eventually fade into the background.

[qbits]

There are ways for moderators to close threads, but usually only when they are in violation of a rule (or redundant). Just leave this thread alone; it will eventually fade into the background.

Thank you very much.

[dps]

Should I close this thread? Sorry, I don't know what you do when the purpose of a thread you made has been served (my hypothesis now has string [edit: strong] evidence against it). Do you just leave the post alone, or is there a way to close it?


I don't think that there's strong evidence against it so much as there's little evidence for it. From what we've been shown, no one in the comic thinks that the Snarl is intelligent, and nothing directly contradicts the view that it's basically a mindless killing machine, but it could be that there are things about it that even the gods don't know.

[flyinglemur]

It's a pit of a far-fetched idea, but I have a theory that the snarl is becoming at least marginally intelligent. I believe the world inside the rifts is a trap, something to draw in mortals to be consumed, like a pitcher plant. In any case, the snarl has been described as hateful, which is usually a trait reserved for sapient beings.

[Bad Wolf]

I think it's like a Slaad's mine mega-chaos steroids. How chaotic can you get and still have what people would recognize as a rational mind?

[Dentarthur]

It's a pit of a far-fetched idea, but I have a theory that the snarl is becoming at least marginally intelligent. I believe the world inside the rifts is a trap, something to draw in mortals to be consumed, like a pitcher plant. In any case, the snarl has been described as hateful, which is usually a trait reserved for sapient beings.

If you're suggesting the Snarl itself created the world in the rift... you may have just solved Odin's little riddle from the Godsmoot.

Worlds within worlds, and yarn winding yarn.

[KorvinStarmast]

There is no consensus. It's one man, one vote: Rich Burlew is the Man, so he's got the Vote.

What is currently established is: 1) The Snarl is intelligent enough to kill. 2) The Snarl, through clawing its way out of countless imprisonments in new worlds, has never taken any effective action to avoid being imprisoned in the next one. 3) If it has ever tried to communicate, Thor is not mentioning it. Perhaps the Snarl's method of communication is through action, not words. That its actions are mostly lethal and violent might be an obstacle, of course.