Familiars and Lockpicking

[The Robot Goat]

Hey! This is a really simple question, and I just thought I'd ask it real quick. I'm thinking of playing an older con man in a D&D game, and I wanted him to have a monkey familiar. Now, the character himself won't have great dexterity, as he is an older fellow, but I was hoping that with the familiar's higher intelligence (what with it not being an actual animal) it would be able to take thieves tools from me and pick locks. Would this be possible with the rules? The DM is pretty chill and may allow it anyway if he thinks it sound fun, but I figured I'd ask the playground.

Thoughts?

[Dalebert]

I feel like he'd have to house-rule that it's a special familiar. A regular monkey would be horrible at picking locks. It certainly wouldn't be able to be proficient. But maybe you can convince him.

[Atalas]

also remember a monkey's hands are not as dextrous as a humans. No opposable thumbs.

[Erys]

Old World Monkeys, like Talapoins, have thumbs.

That said, you definitely will want to make an agreement with your DM on how such a thing can work. RAW really isn't on your side for such things; but maybe he will let you 'give your familiar' the skill with thieves tools at the cost of one of your skills, or some such.

Good luck, the concept itself sounds pretty cool.

[Millstone85]

RAW is odd on this.

Normally, a tool lets you do something you couldn't otherwise do, and proficiency with that tool lets you add your proficiency bonus to the check.

But locks and manacles, as defined in adventuring gear, actually require profiency with thieves' tools to be picked.

By default, a monkey isn't proficient with thieves' tools.
Edit: Or it likely wouldn't be, if I could find a monkey stat block. I am really surprised here.

[Toadkiller]

Hmmm. Basically you want a free tools proficiency with the underlying stat separate from your character. That is, the monkey might have a higher dex in addition to the extra proficiency.

If I was the DM I would be willing to consider it, so long as there was a counterweight to even things out for the other players. In some groups that might just be asking if anyone objected. But it might also be that is “costs” the character something. A skill proficiency, a language, something. I think in the grand scheme of things it isn’t super important but I would be careful to not open the door to power creep.

[The Robot Goat]

Thanks for all the replies folks. I can definitely see where some of you are coming from, what with how stuff like this can open the floodgates to bigger problems. I'll talk to my DM about it, it's not essential to the character, but it would be a nice bit of mechanics to tie his overall themes together.

Also, I can't believe there isn't a monkey stat-block. Seriously, the closest thing is a baboon, and I was really thinking something closer to a capuchin monkey.

[sambojin]

Why have a monkey, when you can have a flying monkey?

With 8Str/14Dex/11Con/5Int/12Wis/6Cha, they're about as smart as some people. I mean, stupid people, but still not far off the average Barb/Fighter or Druid.

The wings just let you hand wave the "of course they have properly opposable thumbs. They've even got wings, goddammit! "

[Toadkiller]

It also occurs that you could fluff this around the arcane trickster’s enhanced mage hand. That the monkey needs to be within a certain distance so you can give instructions or whatever. It is really just letting your open a lock at a distance, and it costs you having the ability to cast find familiar.

[lperkins2]

With DM approval, the PHB has a section on teaching language and skill proficiencies, 250 days 1 gp per day. It's mostly designed for PCs cross training, but the DM might let you teach the tool proficiency to your familiar.

[Whit]

I actually think the concept of the monkey helping u pick locks together as a team would be fun and fits. Help feature giving u advantage.
MoMo and pick the kicks of the chest. You see X and his chimp both work on the locks.
For more I would say dm house rule. Like Beastmaster. The movie. Ogo & pogo pick pockets

[The Aboleth]

Thanks for all the replies folks. I can definitely see where some of you are coming from, what with how stuff like this can open the floodgates to bigger problems. I'll talk to my DM about it, it's not essential to the character, but it would be a nice bit of mechanics to tie his overall themes together.

Also, I can't believe there isn't a monkey stat-block. Seriously, the closest thing is a baboon, and I was really thinking something closer to a capuchin monkey.

As a DM, I would either

A) Allow your monkey familiar to pick locks with the tools right away at the cost of one of your own skills

OR

B) Not allow it right away, but allow the player to slowly train the monkey to do so over a reasonable period of time (similar to how you can learn a new language or skill via the "Downtime Activities" features as explained in one of the books (EDIT: It's the PHB, as pointed out by an earlier forum member)

I'd probably lean towards Option B, unless you wrote me a really neat backstory for the character that included a justification for why and how the monkey was taught that skill.

[KorvinStarmast]

Making a monkey your skill monkey so you don't have to have a Rogue in your party.
Sounds like summoning a golem so that you don't have to have a Fighter in your party.

Spell casters: Oppressing other party members since 2000.
Vote Angus Hardhand, Martial Union Local 54.

[The Aboleth]

Making a monkey your skill monkey so you don't have to have a Rogue in your party.
Sounds like summoning a golem so that you don't have to have a Fighter in your party.

Spell casters: Oppressing other party members since 2000.
Vote Angus Hardhand, Martial Union Local 54.

Does only having one skill make it a "skill monkey" (in the context of "player skill monkeys" as we commonly know them, not the literal sense of "this monkey knows a skill, therefore it is a skill monkey"), though? I don't think so, nor do I think giving a monkey Lockpicking is comparable to making it the party Rogue. Lockpicking is a very useful skill, I'll grant you, but it's not like it can also make a Persuasion or Stealth check with proficiency, too.

[Man_Over_Game]

I thought the idea was a bit too strong, until I thought about what's already available.

Is a monkey with Theives' Tools proficiency better than, say, an Owl with Flyby (can always Disengage), Keen Sight (advantage on Perception Rolls), Darkvision and a Flying speed?

No. The answer you're looking for is No. Nothing is better than the Advantage Owl.

I'd say your "skill monkey" is on-par with a Falcon (which is just flight + keen sight). Until the Owl gets nerfed, I'd let your monkey get proficiency on Dexterity saves and Evasion while I'm at it just to make sure it doesn't get its cute monkey face blown off.

It's not overpowered if it's not the best option.

Now, if I were to give it Sleight of Hand proficiency, AND Thieves' Tools, I'd say it's on par with the Advantage Owl (which is to say, a bit too much), but with just Thieves' Tools I'd definitely let it fly.

[KorvinStarmast]

Does only having one skill make it a "skill monkey" (in the context of "player skill monkeys" as we commonly know them, not the literal sense of "this monkey knows a skill, therefore it is a skill monkey"), though? I don't think so, nor do I think giving a monkey Lockpicking is comparable to making it the party Rogue. Lockpicking is a very useful skill, I'll grant you, but it's not like it can also make a Persuasion or Stealth check with proficiency, too. I was making a joke off of the term Skill Monkey. :smallwink: It is a term often used in GiTP forums when discussing various rogue and bard builds. I then added in an old joke from the Diablo I game, and a variety of other RP game discussions, about a golem being less trouble to deal with than a Fighter meatshield. Woven into the last line was an allusion to the Martials versus Casters running dialogue backbiting undercurrent in a variety of threads on GiTP.

In other words, I offered between three and four jokes, all woven into one post.

Yeah, I hear ya: Korvin, don't quit yer day job. :smallbiggrin:

[The Aboleth]

In other words, I offered between three and four jokes, all woven into one post.


I missed every single one of them--not because of anything you did, but more because I post on these forums infrequently and thus miss half of the "in-jokes." Also, my introduction to the Diablo series came when Diablo II was released, so any references to the first will probably be lost on me.

What I'm saying is, I failed the Perception check and the OP should also give the monkey a laser on its head--it's no shark*, but it'll do.

*Obscure movie references FTW!

[The Robot Goat]

Monkeys with frickin laser beams, eh?

I guess most things you can give to a familiar kind of pale in comparison to the owl, huh? The more you know.