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SilverClawShift
2007-09-16, 09:04 PM
Spellshot Pistol

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x284/SilverClawShift/SpellshotPistol.jpg

Cost: 450 gp
Damage: (varies)
Critical: (varies)
Range Increment: 30 ft.
Weight: 2 lb.
Damage Type: (varies)

Simultaneously elegant and complex, the Spellshot Pistol is an utterly unique exotic weapon. Rather than firing mundane physical rounds, the Spellshot Pistol uses specially prepared "wands" of ammunition. Once the wand is created and locked into place, the spellshot pistol may be fired, automatically draining a charge from it, and producing a simple (usually) blast of magical energy. The pistol itself is only a channel for the magical energies to drain through, and as a result, the weapon itself has less to do with the resulting blast than the ammunition that is placed into it. Common wands (called Stackrounds) create a blunt pulse of energy which survivors often relate to a solid kick from a strong mule. Other wands may produce weaker or more powerful effects, and often cost significantly more.
A single spellshot pistol can be reloaded as a swift action, even if both hands are occupied. Because of the weapons compact and graceful nature, it can be used in close combat without penalty (unlike many other ranged weapons).
Unlike with a more mundane firearm, an indrect shot will dissipate the magical energy harmlessly, deflecting outwards in all directions with a light pressure. This weapon will not tear through armor and wound flesh casually, it must be used properly to inflict damage.

Ammunition
A "wand" of ammunition most be specially designed and created for use in Spellshot pistols. It can not safely be used outside of the weapon, though there have been claims that they can be rigged to create a small but powerful explosion in a pinch.
Spellshot ammunition is usually made by an arcane caster, but is very easy to make in comparison to a scroll or similar item. Mass production of spellshot ammo is much more realistic. It should also be noted that non-spellcasters have been known to learn tricks necessary to create the relatively simple ammunition without actually learning any magic themselves. (this will be represented by a feat).
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Stackround Ammo
Damage: 2d4
Critical: x3
Damage Type: Bludgeoning
Pricing: 1 gp, 6 shots per stick
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Cursebreaker Ammo
Damage: 1d4
Critical: x3
Damage Type: Peircing
Special: Cursebreak Ammo counts as silver for overcoming damage reduction. Cursebreaker Ammo also ignores the normal miss chance for striking an incorporeal creature such as a ghost, but does not ignore miss chances from physical or mundane sources.
Pricing: 2gp, 6 shots per stick
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Mercyreach Ammo
Damage: 2d6
Critical: x2
Damage Type: Bludgeoning
Special: Mercyreach Ammo does not deal lethal damage.
Pricing: 2gp, 6 shots per stick

Spell Rounds
Spell Rounds are sticks of ammunition for the Spellshot pistol specifically designed to cast a single spell. They are created in the same manner as spell scrolls, but the formula for creation (and therefor purchase price) is much more expensive.
Spell rounds are usually very visually different from normal rounds, often being made partially of glass (which does not survive the firing), and are frequently covered in arcane markings. They may or may not be labeled, and some spellcasters have been shown to be capable of creating mundane-looking ammunition which hide spectacularily powerful spells.
You can create a one-shot stick of ammo that fires off a specific magical spell for -Spell Level x Caster Level x 75 gold- plus XP cost as if scribing a scroll. You must be able to cast the spell during the creation of the ammo, must provide any material components or spell focus items, and must provide any XP cost in casting the spell beyond that which creating the spell round would normally take. Creating a spell round takes 1 day per 1000 gp of the base item price.
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Lightning Bolt Round
Special: A Lightning Bolt Round produces an effect identical to the Lightning Bolt spell, caster level 5th. A lightning bolt round must overcome spell resistance normally, and behaves in all respects as if it were cast from a scroll
Default creation for a wizard: 1125gp, 15 XP, 1 day
Market Pricing: 2250gp, 1 shot per stick

Incomplete Notes on Special Weapon Qualities:
Ghost Charge - The Spellshot Pistol can draw and store a single round from a stick of ammunition, and fire it normally, even if the weapon is unloaded.
Silver Rail - The Spellshot Pistol amplifies all ammunition fired through it in a very specific fashion. Any (non-spell) ammo fired from a Silver Rail pistol counts as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

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What?
a.k.a. Balance concerns.
Yes, having a spellshot pistol does mean that you can cast a spell without any real effort, and no failure chance, provided you spend enough cash.
That said, it's a LOT of cash.
If you're a spellcaster, you're better off making scrolls. If you're a non-spellcaster, you're better off befriending (or hiring) a spellcaster. So why bother? Flavor reasons mostly.
Regardless of their ridiculous price, we wanted to ensure that one-shot spell rounds existed in the world, and could be created and used. A 5d6 lightning bolt is all but guaranteed to kill your average human being, and the idea of a hitman striking from a rooftop with a lightning round is just downright groovy.
A DM could opt to drop the occasional spell-stick for his gunslinging players. These could be anything, from one-shot one-kill disintegrate rounds created for no other reason than to assassinate someone, to fireball rounds created for crowd control. A rogue infiltrating would probably grin at the prospect of pressing a gun into the base of someones neck and firing a sleep spell. It's even possible that healing rounds would be created for emergency uses by towns or adventurers. You can't always carry a cleric with you, but a bone-white wand with a golden leaf design that is your healing ace-in-the-hole?

Why?
The Spellshot Pistol is a creation for my groups fledgling campaign world, The Dustlands. The brutally short pitch is that the Dustlands is a fantasy western, a world like faerun that came to a sudden apocalyptic halt, and then went from there. It's a bitter, largely wasteland location with a western-expanionist mentality. A myth-and-legend version of cowboys and indians. It's also meant to be a D20 world that's 100% compatible with base D&D (similar to eberron, if it exists in one world, it can exist in the other).
So what does that all mean? Well, we needed a weapon. A western flavored weapon for a world where magic is stronger than lead. Knowing the weapon would essentially be an iconic representation of what the world was all about, we had a long list of criteria we felt we needed to meet in its creation.
It had to be useful. There needed to be a reason to want to pick up and fire one of these.
It couldn't automatically replace swords and armor. The weapon shouldn't render a good solid sword and stout shield useless.
It had to be adaptable. An arrow against a great wyrm is not a fantastic combat option. This weapon has to have a purpose, even when you're face to face with an angry demon and a pack of ticked off werewolves.

I think we succeeded. The Spellshot Pistol is a nifty little ranged weapon, that a martial fighter, or a deadeyed gunslinger, would be happy to pick up and fire. At the same time, it doesn't make a katana weilding blade master cower in fear. Both mechanically and flavor-wise, a sword fighter could go toe to toe with a gunslinger and still hope to win the fighter. Dropping a spellshot pistol into a different fantasy setting won't wildly upset the power balance, it will simply be another option (admittedly, an exotic one, but not so fascinatingly powerful that it renders its world moot).
And, it's scaleable. There's no reason a DM couldn't give a player access to more powerful ammo for more dangerous worlds.

As far as the Dustlands themselves, the euipment section is going to include a more detailed write-up about the way the weapon interacts with the world, but the important part is that it fills every role it's needed for, including blending in with mainstream D&D.
It's recomended that, despite the cost, DMs hosting a Dustlands game allow players who intend to use pistols in some capacity have a simple spellshot pistol as part of their starting gear. Otherwise, it's more of a financial investment, requiring a substantial amount of gold to obtain (and MAINtain).
It's one area where a sharp blade, and the spellshot pistol, vary greatly. A sword could realistically be obtained by anyone with a fair bit of effort. A commoner might not be able to get much more than a plain shortsword, but almost anyone is going to be able to buy, steal, find, or inherit at least some kind of blade. Most blades could also serve multiple purposes, such as cooking or butchering.
A spellshot pistol? It costs almost as much as a solid suit of armor, and the only thing it can realistically be used for is combat. That means that, when you see someone who has one holstered at their side, you know something. You know they took the effort and money to get, keep, and carry one of these things.
Even in a world where everyone carries a knife or shortsword, the message of the spellshot is loud and clear. "I'll try to kill you, if it comes to that."

Anything Else?
Yeah, actually. The world this weapon was made for is very much a work in progress. So I'll note that we have preliminary concepts for "Rifled" spellshot weapons, as well as incorporation of our base caster systems for use with this ammunition (glyph covered ammo anyone?).
We're also working on the rules for using wand-sticks as, essentially, TNT. You can't have a western without high-explosives. Heck, High-explosives make everything better :smallbiggrin:



I feel like I'm forgetting to mention stuff, but ah well. Any questions, comments, and considerations are more than welcome.

Disclaimer: I did not draw this picture, and I am not the sole designer of this weapon. It's a group effort, though mostly the effort of one person in particular (who is not me). I'm tossing this weapon in its own thread, in case anyone is interested in seeing/adopting it for whatever reason, but doesn't feel like drudging through a bunch of pages of dustlands content.

BizzaroStormy
2007-09-16, 11:17 PM
I recently thought of something like this, although it was much closer to the Caster guns from Outlaw Star. It would be a single shot weapon loaded like a crossbow. The rounds would cost the spell level+1 squared x 100gp ranging the price anywhere from 100gp for a cantrip, to 10,000gp for a 9th level spell. Each shell would take the [spell level +1]d4 hours to create. moving up to d8 hours once you hit 5th level spells. so a Sphere of ultimate destruction shell would cost 10,000gp and take 10d8 hours to create.

Not exactly a gem yet but i havent really taken the time to refine it, or consult the DM as to how it could be balanced.

Duke Malagigi
2007-09-16, 11:36 PM
I like the basic premise of your weapon. Is it okay if I use it in my own campaign. I'll probably insert it as a gnomish or goblin invention.

Finerty
2007-09-16, 11:39 PM
Really like the fluff, especially the picture. I dunno about balance issues, but it sure looks like fun.

Caewil
2007-09-17, 02:27 AM
Heh, I once made something like this, except they used magically/psionically charged crystals. They could be recharged by spending either spell-slots or power-points. (or you could buy more ammo) I modeled them more after d20 modern firearms though, with burst fire settings, etc.

Oh, I made them do elemental damage, fire mainly. It was a ranged touch attack, but it wasn't too bad since I was using the defense bonus progressions from IH/d20 modern & armour as damage reduction. All that happened was that everyone started wearing amulets of fire/other elemental resistances.

Triaxx
2007-09-17, 07:12 PM
I had a similar idea, except it was recharged by spending a spell. Different spells had different effects. Fireball gave you fire elemental power, and had no range increment, but didn't explode. Magic missile gave you the ability to rapid fire. The advantage was that you could charge it in the morning with up to six castings, and be able to fire thirty 1d4 rounds in a single turn if you wanted.
But I like this idea.

SilverClawShift
2007-09-18, 10:10 AM
I like the basic premise of your weapon. Is it okay if I use it in my own campaign. I'll probably insert it as a gnomish or goblin invention.

We'd be honored. That's why we're making the campaign in the first place, to open up a list of options for DMs and players. Loot from, add to it, whatever, it's there to enjoy :smallsmile:


Really like the fluff, especially the picture. I dunno about balance issues, but it sure looks like fun.

Balance isn't too off, I think. Having free access to magic is powerful, but it has a natural limiting factor (ie, your DM saying "No, you can't just walk into town and buy a round of timestop, don't be silly"). It would also cost a lot. 22950 gp market price for a single 9th level spell use. No one would MAKE that round, unless they intended to use it. In which cast ,they can cast time stop anyway.

As for the more combat-oriented applications, I admit, it's a bit better than a crossbow or longbow. Easyish to reload, you can realistically dual-weild it, and it's a solid ranged weapon on top of that.
That said, archers don't have all THAT much going for them. It's not an unviable option, but a more powerful ranged weapon doesn't really shatter the game balance... especially when you factor in how easy it is to adjust, almost on the fly, how strong the weapon is. A DM can easily say "Heh, no, you can't find ammo that strong right now. Here's a few stacks of 1d6 x2 rounds to tide you over though".

It's adjustable to fit your game :smalltongue:


I had a similar idea, except it was recharged by spending a spell.

That's how it started actually. Our DM occasionally gives us what he calls "Spellshot Orbs". They're a background staple in our games, a one-charge free spell fired out of a crystal ball. Re-useable, but you have to put the spell in it yourself.

Very expensive.

That's the direction we started going with this though. The weapon was going to be more like a simple revolver, which was loaded with small glass...well, marbles. Each marble held a charge of damage, you could refill the marbles (they didn't actually leave the gun, it just drained the magical energy out and fired it), ect.
I like the design we settled on better though. It combines the classic look and feel of a revolver (which is a beautiful firearm really) with the more arcane concept of magic wands. The wand acting as a removeable gun barrel just made it too pretty to pass up.

Anyway, thank you all for your responses, I'm glad people generally seem to think it's cool :smallsmile:

jindra34
2007-09-18, 10:20 AM
Dude this is cool... now how to get multiple charges of a spell in one stick/wand...

SilverClawShift
2007-09-18, 10:40 AM
Well, you can dual wield the weapon, and reload it as a swift action. You can reload one on your turn for no real impact.

But once both are loaded (and going into combat, why wouldn't they be?) you really get two spells when you come up to bat. Powerful, but once again, you need to get the spells before you can fire them, and they are not cheap.

DanielLC
2007-09-19, 10:44 PM
When you reload, is that taking another charge from the wand, or replacing the wand? I wouldn't expect you'd have to caulk it to fire another charge, but there's no way you could stick another wand in there without using both hands.

Collin152
2007-09-19, 10:59 PM
When you reload, is that taking another charge from the wand, or replacing the wand? I wouldn't expect you'd have to caulk it to fire another charge, but there's no way you could stick another wand in there without using both hands.

I challenge. If this is a device meant to fire blasts of magical energy,I'm sure it would have a quick-detach quick-attack reloading system. UIt is, after all, intrinsically magical.

knightsaline
2007-09-19, 11:16 PM
I can see someone coming up with an automatically reloading spellshot pistol that looks like a tommygun (think 1930s gangsters) filled with magic missile bullets.

Is there any limitation on what spells can be made into spellshot bullets? I can see someone firing off a Summon Monster spell or some other spell that does not deal damage. Imagine a wish bullet. "I wish this bullet would kill the Tarrasque!"

Hawriel
2007-09-19, 11:26 PM
This reminds me of an idea I had when a friend of mine told me about spell jammer.

take a wand and fashion a handle similar to a hand crossbow. put in a cylinder similar to a revalver. The wand is inchanted to cast say hight level magic missile. isntead of a command word the wand would have a gem that you would press with your finger. like a triger. when the triger is pressed wand is fired. the cylinder keeps the charges. when the cylinder runs out of charges swap it in for a new one. The old one gets recharged later.

Duke Malagigi
2007-09-20, 12:09 AM
This the goblin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3154235&postcount=31) race I'm talking about.

DanielLC
2007-09-20, 08:34 PM
I challenge. If this is a device meant to fire blasts of magical energy,I'm sure it would have a quick-detach quick-attack reloading system. UIt is, after all, intrinsically magical.

What kind of system can allow you to reload it without the use of your hands? Having it eject the old wand and levitate a new wand in place seems a little overboard.

DracoDei
2007-09-20, 09:10 PM
By the time you can afford enough spell-shot rods (or whatever they are called) you can afford to have multiple spellshot pistols (think how the heroes were loaded out for the lobby shootout in "The Matrix", or the derringer specialist lady in "Trigun")... throw on the Quick-Draw feat and you can get off as many shots as you need... as long as you don't mind leaving X thousand GP worth of pistols laying on the ground if you have to run from a fight...

SilverClawShift
2007-09-20, 09:51 PM
What kind of system can allow you to reload it without the use of your hands?

The idea is that it's a fairly simple unload/reload process, especially compared to something like a crossbow, which must be manually pulled back or handcranked.

The wand-barrel can be unlocked with a flick of the thumb. An unlocked wand will literally just slide right out of the gun (tilt it backwards). There, the spellshot's now unloaded.
Putting a new wand in means you need to have it accessible. Conceivably, there could be ammo belts or connectors to the forearms (or even legs) which would allow for the relatively easy motion of sliding the barrel into the weapon and pulling away in one fluid motion. Requires a small amount of grace, true, but so does reaching behind you to draw an arrow, or reloading a crossbow.
If you didn't have any fancy-shmancy ammo belt, it would still be pretty darn easy. It's not a complicated mechanical form. There's a hole, the wand slides into the hole, the base of the wand locks at the entrance. You might even need to use both ARMS, if you were clumsy about it, but you wouldn't need both hands empty. You could brace the wand against your wrist and slide it into place from there.
Once it's in, another simple flick of the thumb locks it in. Now it's ready to fire.
So note the wording. We don't say it "can be reloaded one handed." We say it "can be reloaded even if both hands are occupied." You still only get to reload one as that swift action though, so you might be firing one handed for a round, and then go back to dual-weilding.

Take a look at the rear of the weapon in both pictures of it. A wand created for a spellshot is specially designed to brace itself, preventing it from sliding out the front of the weapon. To reload it, all you need to do do is fit the tip of the wand through the hole, and then let it slide down (either normally, or by snapping your wrist as if flicking a revolver closed).

If the wand is there, pulling the trigger causes the gun to drain a charge from it. Simple as that.

SilverClawShift
2007-09-20, 10:05 PM
By the time you can afford enough spell-shot rods (or whatever they are called) you can afford to have multiple spellshot pistols (think how the heroes were loaded out for the lobby shootout in "The Matrix", or the derringer specialist lady in "Trigun")... throw on the Quick-Draw feat and you can get off as many shots as you need... as long as you don't mind leaving X thousand GP worth of pistols laying on the ground if you have to run from a fight...

Yeeeah, well. That falls under the "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" rule.
Not to mention that, this little exercise would burn through thousands and thousands of gold per round for even piddly low level spells, and that's if you succeed in recovering all your discarded weaponry. That's on expensive attack.

A DM reserves the right to make you spend the rest of the campaign as a penniless drifter after that episode :-p. Unless the whole thing was his plan, in which case, open fire!


Is there any limitation on what spells can be made into spellshot bullets? I can see someone firing off a Summon Monster spell or some other spell that does not deal damage. Imagine a wish bullet. "I wish this bullet would kill the Tarrasque!"

Currently there's no hard limit to what spells you can load up. As mentioned, even beneficial spells such as Cure X Wounds can be created into spell-rounds.
We haven't decided how the gun would handle 'caster only' spells. Such spells might not work, for logistical/balance reasons.

Also, a DM reserves the right to say, in reference to any spell being a weapon round, "No, that's just silly, who would make a bullet-of-mage hand?". If he says they can't be found, then they can't be found.
And if you can make them yourself? Well, just like casting "Wall of Iron" and then selling the material for profit, just because you technically CAN do it doesn't mean you should stop watching out for falling rocks.


I can see someone coming up with an automatically reloading spellshot pistol that looks like a tommygun (think 1930s gangsters) filled with magic missile bullets.

We've toyed with ideas like that. Double-barreled spell-shotguns, pistols that load more than one wand and discard the spent ones as it goes through them and such.

We've opted to avoid it to keep DMs from contemplating suicide.

DracoDei
2007-09-20, 10:21 PM
Yeeeah, well. That falls under the "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" rule.
Not to mention that, this little exercise would burn through thousands and thousands of gold per round for even piddly low level spells, and that's if you succeed in recovering all your discarded weaponry. That's on expensive attack.

A DM reserves the right to make you spend the rest of the campaign as a penniless drifter after that episode :-p. Unless the whole thing was his plan, in which case, open fire!


Yeah, the statement on my part was a commentary on how reloading the spell-mimicing rods was unlikely to be a major bottle-neck to their use. The expense would be the major factor.

knightsaline
2007-09-20, 11:00 PM
Caster only spells could be ruled as the firer pointing the pistol at themselves and firing it. Its kind of like using a hypodermic needle to inject yourself with a drug.

As a person on the Wizards website once said "Just because no one in the party uses a trident does not mean that magical tridents do not exist". This could mean that you could find bullets of mage hand. Just because it seems useless does not meant that it is. You could "inject" someone with a mage hand spell. you could hand them the pistol and they fire it themselves. so much cheese!

DracoDei
2007-09-20, 11:12 PM
OTOH maybe you would "click and hold" on the object you were trying to move with the Mage Hand...
BTW... all sorts of fun rogues trying to swapping out rounds of "Mage Armor" on an enemy with rounds of "Hold Person" or "Inflict Critical Wounds" or just the standard 2d4 damage rounds...
Or having a minor NPC off themselves because they got the rounds mixed up...

knightsaline
2007-09-21, 12:14 AM
I'm surprised no one has asked this, but what kind of weapon proficiency does this use? It seems to fall into all three. Simple because anyone can fire a gun, Exotic because you might not see one of these that often and Martial because you could equip an army with these things and only have to train them on how to reload quickly.

SilverClawShift
2007-09-21, 01:51 PM
Yeah, the statement on my part was a commentary on how reloading the spell-mimicing rods was unlikely to be a major bottle-neck to their use. The expense would be the major factor.

Of course. Basically, anything you create will have some potential for abuse, unless you come up with an (often flimsy) excuse for why they can't do that, and then try to backpeddle the flavor to cover it.
We know there's the potential to use the weapon in broken ways, if you really twist and turn. There are also infinite damage chains in official published material :smalltongue:
But at least the one-spell-per-stick rule gives the DMs a good reason to pause and say "Wait wait wait".


Caster only spells could be ruled as the firer pointing the pistol at themselves and firing it. Its kind of like using a hypodermic needle to inject yourself with a drug.

We've thought about that, but technically, even firing a caster-only spell from a scroll or wand is still you triggering the spell. Technically, the reason the spellshot pistol works is because you DON'T trigger the spell, it does for you. It's an automatic UMD-skill-check-bypass with a very specific use.
Caster only spells would technically apply to the GUN instead of to the firer.

That said, our general motto as players (and one DM) and designers is, "If it feels good, do it". And it's definately more interesting and fitting if said spells fire as would be expected.
And as DracoDei said, it provides rogues (and grifters, in our campaign world) some interesting chances to mess with their opponents.


As a person on the Wizards website once said "Just because no one in the party uses a trident does not mean that magical tridents do not exist". This could mean that you could find bullets of mage hand. Just because it seems useless does not meant that it is. You could "inject" someone with a mage hand spell. you could hand them the pistol and they fire it themselves. so much cheese!

Of course. Any spell COULD exist, I'm just noting that a DM is well within his right to say "No, there's no way this backwater town under seige by angry half-demon outlaws has a dozen force cage bullets".

Just sayin :smalltongue:


I'm surprised no one has asked this, but what kind of weapon proficiency does this use? It seems to fall into all three. Simple because anyone can fire a gun, Exotic because you might not see one of these that often and Martial because you could equip an army with these things and only have to train them on how to reload quickly.

That's something that's covered more in the full campaign information (but not the thread yet).
Anyone can pick it up and fire it, even without proficiency (as with all weapons), but without a little experience and practice with it, you're going to have a penalty to hit (first timers rarely can hit six out of six tin cans from 40 feet, afterall).
In the dustlands, it's a martial weapon. A tool for combat, a little training and practice and away you go. Few people in the dustlands don't at least know what one IS, even if they might not have ever held one themselves.
If you opted to let a player have one in another campaign world (or adopted it as a weapon option outright), it would be an exotic weapon. Expensive and rare, and precise. The effort to become proficient with it in most worlds would be a mark above your average city patrol or castle guard.