Quarterstaff Paladin build (No Hexblade)

[RealMarkP]

Before Hexblade, there was this interesting build that saw a Quarterstaff paladin with PAM with a dip into Warlock. It's hard to find info on this build, but I have a character in mind that would fill this play style nicely. The role in my part will be damage, not tanking. So, I'll be using the quarterstaff two-handed without a shield. I'm petitioning my DM to make it into a reach weapon (basically a halberd without the head) due to backstory... Getting Shillelagh might be cool but I don't know how well it could play. Dumping a lot into CHA is ideal and if I can make it my one and only primary stat, that would work best, I think.

EDIT: forgot to mention that this character's main damage would come from Smite.

Stats: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8.
Race: Variant Human or Aasimar.

This isn't going to be a super optimized build but it should still be good enough to be the main melee damage dealer and partial crowd control. My DM is open to me using any homebrew Oaths (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/5e_Subclasses) or any other subclasses that would fit into this multiclass.

The level cap would be around 10-12. Our D&D games generally end up with a wipe around then.

What would be a good build for this? Thanks.

[WeaselGuy]

The reason why you'd go Warlock is to go Pact of the Blade, Warcaster, and Sentinel, along with Polearm Master. How it basically works, is you attack someone with your polearm, it triggers Eldritch Blast off of Warcaster, PAM gives you a followup attack with the butt of the polearm, sending another Eldritch Blast into your opponent. As has been pointed out here:
That's not how warcaster works. Warcaster. If taken in the build at all, is for somatic spells (not necessary unless also carrying a shield), concentration save buff, and opp attack buff, especially with booming blade, though you might just skip warcaster, since there arent too many critical somatic spells for the build, sentinel is a better feat for opp attacks, and resilient better fot con saves.
War Caster
Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least one spell

You have practiced casting spells in the midst of combat, learning techniques that grant you the following benefits:


You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage.
You can perform the somatic components of spells even when you have weapons or a shield in one or both hands.
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.


Sentinel
You have mastered techniques to take advantage of every drop in any enemy's guard, gaining the following benefits:


When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, the creature's speed becomes 0 for the rest of the turn.
Creatures provoke opportunity attacks from you even if they take the Disengage action before leaving your reach.
When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.


Sentinel lets you attack with an AoO when your opponent leaves your threatened square(s), which is why you want a reach weapon, most commonly a glaive (although, iirc, the interaction between Sentinel and Warcaster has been FAQ nerfed). What this means, is that you combine Warcaster with the first two parts of Sentinel, in order to pull off Eldritch Blast AoOs. The Agonizing Blast Invocation lets you tack on your Charisma modifier to the damage of Eldritch Blast, which in turn is dealt pretty much any time you now attack.

With regards to specific builds, I really can't help you out a whole lot, except you're going to want at least 3 levels of Warlock, and at that point, probably 4, for the ASI. It's pretty feat intensive, so I'd recommend V. Human. I don't know a whole lot about Paladins, so I'll leave that up to others.

EDIT: to clarify some points, and make a correction.

[Mikal]

So the reason the build existed was to be able to go Pact of the Tome and get a Charisma Based Shillelagh, allowing you... to use Charisma for hitting and damaging, with PAM (hence quarterstaff). Like a hexblade.

So... you can use the build if you want, but to be frank hexblade makes it almost completely obsolete, except for the ritual access and extra cantrips you can pick up.
It was also built using the old version of the celestial warlock patron that provided fire extra fire damage equal to your charisma when doing a fire spell to use GFB and potentially triple Cha damage certain opponents.

TL;DR- Go Hexblade as this build is antiquated. And instead of trying to petition your DM to make a quarterstaff into a two handed reach polearm... just use a two handed reach polearm. But that last bit is jut my bias into getting mechanical advantage from 'fluff' that you can do with other existing items.

[Snowbluff]

The other reason is that it takes your bonus action to cast Shillelagh. Also, I have had a friend try a build with this build concept in mind and he regretted it thoroughly.

That being said.

I like taking paladin to 6 at least for the aura. After that I like to ditch it.

How about

Oath of Ancients Paladin7-8
Whispers Bard 4-5

Be a V HUman, get Great weapon and PAM.

I'd vote for trying out Elven Accuracy, but ok.

[Maxilian]

If you want to go CHA based, but not pick Hexblade, you would need to make Shillelagh a Warlock spell, so you would require the Pact of Tome to pick Shillelagh as a warlock spell (for it to work with CHA), for Warlock subclass, you could pick Celestial for extra heals, Seeker (UA) for some extra survivability, Fiend for the extra temp HP when you kill someone (fiend temp hp becomes weaker as you lvl up), or go with Raven Queen (it give you a familiar and a buff to your Perception check), Paladin subclass... well, Redemption will take advatange of your good CHA and make you even better at persuasion checks, Ancients will also take adv of your CHA a lot (but would need to push to lvl 6 first).

Note: For the own good of your DM, evade homebrew content from Dndwiki

[Vogie]

I would go a Strength/Heavy Armor Pact of the Blade Lockadin instead of chasing Shillelagh into pseudo-hexadin territory. That is, Holy fighter, rather than Magical Monk

I'd probably go 6 Paladin/6 Warlock, with stats starting at Str 15, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 13

The most bang for your buck would be Raven queen patron, followed by Celestial, unless you've gotten a warlock patron in mind already. Oath of Vengeance will give you the most DPR with the Vow of Enmity, and Hunter's mark acting as an alternative to Hex.

[Sception]

How it basically works, is you attack someone with your polearm, it triggers Eldritch Blast off of Warcaster,

That's not how warcaster works. Warcaster. If taken in the build at all, is for somatic spells (not necessary unless also carrying a shield), concentration save buff, and opp attack buff, especially with booming blade, though you might just skip warcaster, since there arent too many critical somatic spells for the build, sentinel is a better feat for opp attacks, and resilient better fot con saves.

Main point of the build was pam/quarterstaff/shield cheese with cha to attacks from shillelagh via pact of the tome at warlock 3. Note that you miss out on most of the point of the quarter staff cheese if you're two handing your staff. Even if you're prioritizing damage, you're still better off one handing the staff and carrying a shield, +2 ac is worth way more than +1 damage die on only some of your attacks. And if you're not using a shield, you might as well just use a halberd instead for even better damage plus reach. This is especially the case for this build, since a shillelagh'ed up quarterstaff does the same damage regardless of how many hands you use.

The shillelagh part of the build was obsoleted by hexblade, since that gives you a better source of cha based melee two levels earlier, one that doesn't buff a staff's damage, but can be used with weapons that do more damage to start, and more importantly one that is always on without worrying about short durations or bonus actions to cast getting in the way of PAM's own bonus action attacks.

That said, if you absolutely do not want to go hexblade for thematic reasons, say you're going for a green knight sort of sentinel/feylock build, the tome pact for shillelagh quarterstaff still works alright.

To take the most advantage of PAM's bonus and reaction attacks, look for features that boost static damage (like improved divine smite or oathbreaker's aura), or that improve crit rates via advantage (like vengeance paladin's CD or elven accuracy feat -though vuman might be preferred for earlier access to PAM) or expanded crit range.

It's worth noting that Hexblade's curse, while it eats a bonus action, grants both a static damage boist and an expanded crit range against the target, so that's yet another reason why hexblade has supplanted tomelock shillelagh in thus sort of build.

If going for a wilderness hermit hedge fey knight sort of thing, i'd go half elf, s16 d8 c15 i8 w10 h17, paladin (ancients) 8, warlock (fey, book) 4, glamour bard 8, in that order. For asis, PAM at 4, Elven Accuracy at 8, +2 cha at 12, resilient (con) at 16, whatever at 20. Heavy armor, shield, and staff, always open with shillelagh once you have it, aim for advantage wherever you can get it (but skip the darkness/devil's sight combo, due tyo the skornergy with your melee focus and party friendly auras), smite a lot for damage. Not the best build, but workable, and thematic.

Can get more damage out of vengeance or (especially) oathbreaker, but then again the biggest damage improvement for the would be from swapping to hexblade patron, so...

[WeaselGuy]

That's not how warcaster works. Warcaster. If taken in the build at all, is for somatic spells (not necessary unless also carrying a shield), concentration save buff, and opp attack buff, especially with booming blade, though you might just skip warcaster, since there arent too many critical somatic spells for the build, sentinel is a better feat for opp attacks, and resilient better fot con saves.

Thank you for pointing out my mistake. I've edited my post to provide some clarity, and to point out why and how Warcaster interacts beneficially with Sentinel. It's not quite the same routine as I initially stated, but it is still effective. Assuming the DM doesn't apply the FAQ nerf.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Since it sounds like your GM is open to non-published sources, how 'bout a Giant Soul Sorcerer dip? Hill Giant gets you Cha-based Shillelagh in a single level, plus the usual Sorcadin goodness. And hey-- if you manage a 6/6 split, the Stone Giant's 6th level ability will let you knock people back every time you cast your (at-will, bonus action) ordening spell.