Homebrew Help: Soulknife Monk

[Damon_Tor]

So it's been said by one of the developers (Mearls, I think) that when the Mystic is reworked the Soulknife will become a monk subclass. I have a player who wants to start playing one this weekend, so I told her I'd see how smoothly it could be converted. Here's what I've got:


Way of the Soulknife

Soul Knife
Starting at third level, you gain the ability to manifest blades of psychic energy. As a bonus action, you create one or two scintillating knives of energy that each project from one of your fists. You can't hold anything in a hand manifesting one of these blades. You can dismiss a soul knife at any time.
For you, a soul knife is a martial melee weapon with the light and finesse properties. It deals 1d8 psychic damage on a hit. Your soul knives count as monk weapons.
As a bonus action, you can prepare to use the blades to parry; you gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn or until you are incapacitated.

Psionics
At third level, you learn one Discipline and one Psionic Talent from the Mystic class. You can use Ki points as Psi points to use your psionic disciplines. Your psi limit is equal to one-third your monk level rounded down until level 20. At level 20, your psi limit is 7. Wisdom is your psionic ability for your psionic disciplines. You learn a new discipline at 7th, 11th, 15th and 19th levels. You learn a new talent at 10th and 17th levels.

Hone the Blade
Starting at 3rd level, you can spend one ki point to augment your soul knife’s attack rolls and damage. The number of ki points you can spend in this way increases to 2 at level 8, 3 at level 13, and 4 at level 18. The bonus to attack and damage rolls equals the number of ki points spent. This bonus lasts for 10 minutes.

Consumptive Knife
Starting at 6th level, whenever you slay an enemy creature with a soul knife attack, you immediately regain 2 ki points.

Rapid Action
Starting at 11th level, you can take two bonus actions on your turn. You cannot make the same action twice in this way.

Phantom Knife
Starting at 17th level, attacks with your soul knives phase through most defenses. Treat the target's AC as 10 against attacks with your soul knives, regardless of the target's actual AC.

I tried to keep things as close to the Mystic Order as possible, moving features slightly to where a Monk path gets its new abilities. I had to invent a level 11 feature and I made a few changes for compatibility. A few notable changes:

Soul Knife no longer forces dual wielding: the minor action summons one or two knives, player's choice. This way a monk can keep a hand free to use Deflect Missiles fully if they choose. Also, the knives can be dismissed without an action.
As a subclass of a non-caster class, these Soulknives aren't meant to be full casters, so they get limited access to disciplines, and their psi limit progresses slowly. They're most similar to "1/3 casters" like Eldrich Knights or Arcane Tricksters. They do get 7 psi (roughly the equivalent of 5th level spells) at level 20. This is mostly because it felt mean to say they could never have them.
Hone the Blade progresses more slowly. Monks have multiple attacks, and so rely on this feature less.
Rapid Action is a new addition: both the Monk and the Mystic (especially the Soulknife) are packed with potential bonus actions. Giving them a way to use two per turn seemed like a great way to bring the two classes together without rewriting too much.
Phantom Knife applies to all attacks with a soul knife, it doesn't require a special action of its own. The feature as written didn't pair well with how the monk class is written. I'm aware this is a very powerful ability, making virtually all of their attacks hit. But then again, this is a level 17 feature, the same level where casters get their 9th level spells. So I'm okay with this. It doesn't apply to their unarmed attacks.


Thoughts?

[Garfunion]

I’m going to be honest here, what is a soulknife? Was there an official printing of the class in a past edition? Besides the psychic blades that they created, what else did they really do? Just trying to get a better understanding in order to help you.

[Man_Over_Game]

There's a few concerns that come to mind.

Notably, why would someone pick this over the Kensei? How do they play differently? There are only two major differences: Kensei gets support for ranged attacks where this one gets +2 AC, and the fact that this can get psionics from another class. The first one is a major concern, but the second might be worthwhile.

It's just worth comparing it to the Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, the Arcane Cleric, the Scout Ranger, Divine Soul Sorcerer. All of those classes borrow something from an existing class and make it something of their own.

So far, though, the Soul Knife doesn't really do too much of anything on its own. It hits things and then it hits things harder. Thinking about it, it also bares a strong resemblance to the Long Death monk that is really only good at taking and dealing damage and not much else.

That's not on you, though. The Soul Knife was really bland in the first place, but I think the important thing is to make a distinction to the Soul Knife, in mechanics and playstyle, that separate it from the Long Death or Kensei monk. That is, making it more than "I deal more damage" or "I take less damage". It worked for the Mystic, because there wasn't a lot of melee damage options, but the monk already has a ton of that.

And until we see what the mystic is like, we won't know what those level 3/7/11/15 features will be like, leaving a lot of ???'s all over the class.

Lastly, restricting Bonus Actions to one-per-round is an intentional limitation. The developers specifically said that this is one thing they'd really like to avoid doing (just like stacking concentration).

Perhaps a "burst mode" could be implemented, that was similar to Barbarian Rage or Bladesinger's Bladesong that only worked for a few rounds, cost a few ki points, but combat outside of your "burst mode" would grant you ki points (like when you hit with an unarmed strike or something). I could see that work out.

As it is right now, though, this current model has a lot of unknown variables due to not knowing what Mystic options will be available, and what's there is nothing new, interesting, or balanced for the monk.

[Man_Over_Game]

I’m going to be honest here, what is a soulknife? Was there an official printing of the class in a past edition? Besides the psychic blades that they created, what else did they really do? Just trying to get a better understanding in order to help you.

It's in an Unearthed Arcana. It's a style of Mystic (when they were trying out Psionics) that turned psychic energy into deadly blades. I guess like that one guy on Yu Yu Hakasho? It was particularly interesting due to it being a "gish" style character that could basically ignore AC and almost always hit at later levels against anything.

[stoutstien]

the 3rd lv feature is strait up better than kensei in every way. it bypasses resistants, it allows +2 ac while still using the larger damage die of the blade instead of unarmed strikes.

id knock it down to 1d6 and make it throwable and re summon to hand as BA. id remove bonus ac replace it with disadvantage on attacks of opportunity on you up as long as you have a soul knife out.

now the mystic is the most broken class in print atm. a clever player can gain +3 ac as a single lv dip plus a lot of other goodies. i expect a complete rework before print but i could be wrong. id limit the discipline and talent chooses so they cant cherry pick.

hone blade once again over shadows a lv 11 feature of kensei at lv 3

6th lv. so unlimited ki? stunning strike span gets turned into stunning strike mini-gun

2 bonus actions is a bad idea. if you want to make it more action economy friendly id just make so you can summon blade as part of an attack now

lv 17 feature needs a save at least.

[ATHATH]

I’m going to be honest here, what is a soulknife? Was there an official printing of the class in a past edition? Besides the psychic blades that they created, what else did they really do? Just trying to get a better understanding in order to help you.
The Soulknife was one of the worst base classes (power-wise, and possibly design-wise too) in D&D 3.5e.

Its signature ability was the ability to create weapons out of psychic energy. The problem was, the weapons weren't as good as what, say, Fighters would/should be wielding at that level, it basically had no class features other than "has a weapon", "can throw their weapon", "a free feat that (almost?) anyone can pick up at first level", and "something sort of like Sneak Attack, except you (usually) have to give up your ability to attack more than once per round to use it (after your first strike in a fight) and it deals terrible damage (you can likely deal more damage per round by NOT using it than by using it)", it was a 3/4 BAB class (in other words, its number of attacks per round and accuracy with its attacks (from BAB, at least) scaled at 3/4 of the rate of, say, a Fighter or a Barbariam), and it didn't have any innate manifesting (psionic spellcasting, basically) ability other than what was basically 5e's Magic Initiate feat gained as a bonus feat.

In short, it's a legendarily terrible class that they're trying to make at least decent in this edition.

[ATHATH]

In case you want to see the original class yourself, here it is: https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/psion/soulknife.shtml

Oh, I forgot to mention that you get the Speed of Thought feat as a bonus feat, which is... meh. Basically, it increases your movement speed by 10 ft. while psionically focused.

Oh, and second error on my part: the bonus feat that you get is WORSE than what I remember it being: basically, it's 5e's Magic Initiate, except you just get (the psionic equivalent of) a spell slot- no cantrips or spells known to go with it.

EDIT: Wait, no, I was right before. You can switch out the worse feat for the better one with an ACF (IIRC).

Keep in mind that magic weapons were MUCH more common in 3.5e, you normally usually had access to a weapon (for each party member that needed one) with an effective enhancement bonus of your level divided by four, for example.

[MagneticKitty]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2bXgsHg7PtJNEdpNHBVRDVOXzA/view

Here's some homebrew someone else made for it.

Edit: I guess it's psi rogue and fighter. But the soul knife is more developed having it's own disciplines.

[Damon_Tor]

the 3rd lv feature is strait up better than kensei in every way.

I'm not sure I follow. Kensei can use a versatile weapon for 1d10 damage and can use ranged weapons, right?


it bypasses resistants, it allows +2 ac while still using the larger damage die of the blade instead of unarmed strikes.

It's true the soulknife doesn't get resisted. I would have removed the +2 AC ability entirely, but I was trying to keep things as close to the UA subclass as possible and there wasn't a strong reason to remove it. Even if a monk were to want to use his bonus action to defend himself, he would almost always be better off spending a ki point to dodge. Maybe I could replace it with "While you are projecting at least one soul knife and use the Dodge action, you gain +2 to AC until the start of your next turn." That way it keeps the spirit of the ability while increasing synergy with the rest of the Monk class.

[Garfunion]

After investigating the Soulknife. I think you could just refluff the Sun Soul archetype to do psychic damage instead of radiant damage.

Im not sure how the Devs can make a meaningful Soulkife archetype.

Actually it may be better for the Rogue class to be a Soulknife. They can add some type of ability that forces the target to make a saving throw or take sneak attack damage.

[Man_Over_Game]

I could see the soulknife as a resource-management melee fighter, with reliance on spending tons of Ki, with a few ways of regenerating it. The idea is that you read the flow of combat to determine the best action in the moment. The main power would probably be something like your unarmed attacks deal additional psychic damage while charged, or regain Ki points when they're not. Then just have a list of powers that require Ki points or methods to use the existing dodge/movement abilities offensively (like being able to spend a reaction while Dodging to attack an enemy who just missed you).

Regaining Ki points has always been a problem for the Monk. As a result, most of the archetypes are either pretty bland (drunk master, long death), or burn through too many ki points to stay on top (shadow, 4 elements). I'd see it being a subclass that was occasionally bland to fund really cool powers once in a while.

Or perhaps there's different "modes" the monk could shuffle through as a life-stealer, a ki-stealer, or a damage dealer.

[stoutstien]

I'm not sure I follow. Kensei can use a versatile weapon for 1d10 damage and can use ranged weapons, right?
They only get the +2 AC if they don't use the weapon for one of the attacks from attack action.


It's true the soulknife doesn't get resisted. I would have removed the +2 AC ability entirely, but I was trying to keep things as close to the UA subclass as possible and there wasn't a strong reason to remove it. Even if a monk were to want to use his bonus action to defend himself, he would almost always be better off spending a ki point to dodge. Maybe I could replace it with "While you are projecting at least one soul knife and use the Dodge action, you gain +2 to AC until the start of your next turn." That way it keeps the spirit of the ability while increasing synergy with the rest of the Monk class.
May want to change wording to also work with patient defence.

[ATHATH]

After investigating the Soulknife. I think you could just refluff the Sun Soul archetype to do psychic damage instead of radiant damage.
Honestly, just do this. Maybe give them the option to have their unarmed strikes deal psychic damage too.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Im not sure how the Devs can make a meaningful Soulkife archetype.
It's a weird relic. Whatever edition I've seen it pop up in, it's basically one feat or spells' worth of ability stretched out over way too many levels of class. Feels particularly irrelevant to the Monk, who already has "always armed" as a major part of their schtick. In 5e Mystic terms, I favor reducing it to a Talent.

That said, for a Monk, a refluffed Kensai should cover it-- replace Kensai Weapons with Soulknife (a 1d8 slashing finesse weapon with, oh, a 60ft throwing range) and have all their other abilities only work with said knife.

[Theodoxus]

Heck, I'd rather Monk's be called Soulknives and nothing else changes. Monk has always had a connotation with East Asian cultures that never gelled well with the Western European flavor of modern role playing games.

instead of unarmed attacks dealing bludgeoning, call it psychic and be done.

They already get skirmisher HD, so they aren't "fighters" (something PF2 rectified, but I'm not a fan of). Boosting their damage type from bludgeoning to psychic while also opening up Ki keyed effects to a whole gamut of 'psychic' phenomena would seriously boost the class in new directions.

I tried developing a "way of the force" monk, to emulate jedi - but the current "magic flavor" of 4Ele monk makes for really lackluster jedi (and elemental mages, if we're being honest). Mapping over force/psionic powers onto the 4Ele chassis was nigh useless.

But if the class as a whole were rewritten to be psi based rather than 'pseudo mystical Oriental chakra/prada' nonsense we currently have, it would definitely move us past the block of what 'monk' means.

Honestly, I hope the 6th ed brings more generic classes and a whole slew of archetypes, where one can pick Oriental flavored subclasses for every generic class if you wanted - or Amerindian or Northern European, or even Martian for that matter ;)

[Vekon]

Except I'm pretty sure Mearls has already rolled out a "homebrew" for this on his weekly Happy Fun Hour? Why not just have your player use that? I'm sure you can find it in a single google search.

[Damon_Tor]

Except I'm pretty sure Mearls has already rolled out a "homebrew" for this on his weekly Happy Fun Hour? Why not just have your player use that? I'm sure you can find it in a single google search.

I had no idea this podcast was even a thing. Awesome, thanks!

Link to Mearls' Soulknife Monk "Devbrew" is here (https://thinkdm.wordpress.com/soul-knife-monk/).

It's neat, but seems broken in one particular way:


-Your unarmed attacks can deal psychic damage (or slashing, piercing or smashing, at your option)
-Your Flurry of Blows attacks can impose vulnerability to psychic damage until EoNT (along with other effects, at your option)

In other words, after your first turn in combat (and for parts of the first turn as well), you will probably always be dealing double damage.