View Full Version : DnD 5E Homebrew Class: The Exemplar | Would like to hear your constructive feedback
Hello all!
I don't usually sign up for forums and whatnot, but I really like DnD and thought that I would share a homebrew class that I created.
Just a bit of backstory as to why I created this class, you can read it if you want or just scroll down and click on the link below, it doesn't really matter.
One of the "campaigns" that I was a part of was set up to be episodic, where the players would change in and out constantly due to busy schedules and significant gaps between sessions. Each session was it's own episode with a beginning and a conclusion, and therefor players and their characters could jump in and out whenever to "help out with the current mission" or "have other matters to attend to" when they couldn't make a session. This actually worked out pretty well for the most part, except that there were not many regulars and most players were brand new to DnD and never even opened a Players Handbook.
Obviously, when it came to creating characters for these players, at first, we would let them pick whatever they wanted to play. In most cases, they always seemed to pick between Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard, or Ranger. I would be the one to help them put their character together, which led to hours of putting their characters together onto character sheets. Normally this isn't a problem if there was a character creation session. But, when these people would agree to be ready by the time campaign is supposed to start, then it became frustrating after a while.
What would happen in game, is that the new players would not know or understand their spells, and they did not understand how casting a spell worked. So the super cool Wizard concept they wanted to play was basically just a human Fire-bolt factory in actual practice. Or, I would essentially "advise/tell" what they could do instead of Fire-bolt on their turn, then I basically am playing everyone's characters for them, which I don't want.
Over time, we told players that they couldn't pick certain classes, but even Rangers have spells, and that has proven to be too much for them. But they also don't like being a Champion Fighter because it's too simple, and Battlemaster is apparently too complicated as well, so I don't really know...
Anyway, all of that has led to a discussion with my DM about how DnD 5E has so many classes with access to the spell-casting feature, even Fighters and Rogues have spell-casting archetypes. And I thought about the idea of creating a class where a new player could either be a spell slot-less spell-caster, a different kind of martial weapons fighter, or a different kind of ranger. It sounds messy, but I managed to put something together, and that something is my Homebrew class called the Exemplar! The goal was to have a majority of the features be fairly basic and straightforward for newer players, but still offer some interesting and different options as they level up.
Now I am not a very good writer, I focused more on the mechanics of the class and trying to balance the features it as much as possible, rather than writing an elaborate and descriptive narrative on how cool or awesome this class can be. But you can sort of think of this character as a like a medieval superhero, except you wouldn't be wearing a spandex suit like modern superheros.
Anyway, the idea is that you get to choose between 3 "super powers", you can fire elemental blasts out of your hands, you can have super strength, or super speed. I tried my best to calculate average damages and relative power throughout the various levels and hopefully did a well enough job for everyone here to enjoy. I haven't really play tested it at all, so maybe you guys can give me some insight. Again, constructive criticism is very much appreciate and I hope you can share your thoughts.
***UPDATED***
Thank you for your feedback! I have revised parts of my character class to hopefully make more sense. Please let me know what you think!
Here is the Link, it is a Word document:
- Original Draft: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1q_SQWDSEum7a_6iggI9PZlBLU77NoS3YeC7XUIcdJ H4
- Verison 2.0: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sX18u5PY8FvXVehM_TWtmPQ2wEkTRxxrV09laV5MY gY
- Version 3.0: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jYX3zCgYYunH4M0YdhgjZ6xluK4bQeOw
- Version 3.1: https://drive.google.com/open?id=175Iutx7O1yuS-SWfNjrqyy5MJSSfL0sC
I look forward to seeing what everyone has to say!
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Also please check out DM Bob and “The Adventuring Guild” website for his “Homebrew Review Podcast”. These guys are amazing and they love reviewing homebrew classes by playing them in actual DnD settings!
https://www.theadventuringguild.com/
A special thanks to MTNrhyno for creating and playing the super-fast speedster “XLR8” using this homebrew class (v2.0 was used).
Below are the titles of the 5 episodes featuring my homebrew class, but there are so many episodes they make that feature all sorts of fun homebrew creations. Please check them out!
• (Level 4) Ep 41 - ToA - Part 1 - Gotta Go Fast!
• (Level 8) Ep 42 - ToA - Part 2 - Your Friends Are Using You
• (Level 12) Ep 43 - ToA - Part 3 - Burn the Lich
• (Level 16) Ep 44 - ToA - Part 4 - Demons in Chult
• (Level 20) Ep 45 - ToA - Part 5 - Half a Mile in 6 Seconds
Thanks!
nineGardens
2018-10-02, 12:37 AM
Okay, so... first off (ignoring the class for a minute), is creating a new homebrew class the best solution to the problem you are having?
If your issue is the difficulty of onboarding new players and character creation, then maybe the solution is to use a different game engine as opposed to creating a different character class.
If you use a simpler/lighter engine then its easier for everyone, and your new players won't feel sad about being kept away from the exciting wizard class, either because it isn't there to feel envious of, or because it is, but has been made suitably simple.
(The light rpg engine I am most familiar with would be "Legay: life among the ruins", although I'm sure others with more knowledge might be able to suggest something better)
Okay, but that's just paying attention to your original concern, let's look at the class...
The concept of "Random superhero" can be fun- I can see people getting behind that, although I would perhaps advice having some example "powersources" in your introduction:
"Some mysterious event in your past has made you the way you are now. Whether your body surges with elemental energies, supernatural strength, or super speed, will you use your newfound powers for good or evil?" What sort of mysterious event?
Either give a few examples, or decide on ONE power source and run with it. By keeping it vauge you put extra strain on your newbie players.
Okay, moving along...
"First, make your highest ability score Charisma if you choose Elemental Energy, Strength if you choose Enhanced Strength, or Dexterity if you choose Enhanced Speed, followed by Constitution as your second highest ability score, and Wisdom as your third highest ability score. Second, choose the folk hero background."
Wo wo wo wo....
Okay, If your goal is simplicity, then setting your newbies up with a choice of three different ability scores to maximise seems like a recipe for trouble.
I really like the choice of energy/strength/speed, but I suspect you should somehow look for ways to tie all of these to the same Stat... or alternatively consider making three simple classes, instead of one class with three aspects (If you can't switch at later levels, then it is the same result rules wise)
"At 1st level, you gain a unique ability that defines who you are and grants you great physical prowess. Choose a Signature Ability detailed at the end of the class description. Your choice grants you features at 1st level and again at 3rd, 5th, 9th, 11th, and 17th level."
Okay, sticking the custom stuff at the end might be standard issue for the rulebooks (I don't know, sorry, haven't seen 5E)... but having the referencing around does make things more confusing. Would it be possible to bring the specials up higher... or at least a basic reference to them (Elemental, speed, strength).
And okay, how important is it that these classes go to 20th level? You said that this is for newbie players in an epesodic campaign, and maybe giving them a limit level class will make them sad... but if you don't realistically expect them to get to level 8... then....
Hmmm... no, that's probably a dumb idea. I guess I just think, given the goals you've stated, I'm mainly interested in the low levels.
Okay- ... its late here and I should be getting some sleep, so I will unfortunately have to run off without giving a complete feedback (sorry).
I feel like you have a sensible goal, and a cool character concept, but It feels like these two are at odds with one another a bit just now (you have 19 pages of rules).
The "Choose one of three archetypes" feels nice for the character, but bad for the newbie. Choosing one thing at level one and then running with it makes leveling up easier.... but it puts more weight on that early choice... a choice made precisely when your player is least experienced, and at the character creation time that you are trying to streamline and make faster.
Okay, so... first off (ignoring the class for a minute), is creating a new homebrew class the best solution to the problem you are having?
No lol, but I felt like making the class anyway.
I guess the class idea started out as being friendlier to new players, but that quickly subsided after I started putting all the features together. Still, I would consider this class easier than most spell-caster classes, but probably more involved than a Champion Fighter. I don't plan on having this class fix the problem new players are having, because I haven't play tested this and it could be unbalanced anyway.
My backstory merely explains how I came to this idea of creating a new class. The biggest thing for me was creating a class that didn't use spell-casting.
The concept of "Random superhero" can be fun- I can see people getting behind that, although I would perhaps advice having some example "powersources" in your introduction:
"Some mysterious event in your past has made you the way you are now. Whether your body surges with elemental energies, supernatural strength, or super speed, will you use your newfound powers for good or evil?" What sort of mysterious event?
Either give a few examples, or decide on ONE power source and run with it. By keeping it vauge you put extra strain on your newbie players.
Agreed, but I am not a writer, and I consider this a rough draft. If people seem to like the mechanics, I will consider putting more effort with the "fluff" of the character concept.
Okay, moving along...
"First, make your highest ability score Charisma if you choose Elemental Energy, Strength if you choose Enhanced Strength, or Dexterity if you choose Enhanced Speed, followed by Constitution as your second highest ability score, and Wisdom as your third highest ability score. Second, choose the folk hero background."
Wo wo wo wo....
Okay, If your goal is simplicity, then setting your newbies up with a choice of three different ability scores to maximise seems like a recipe for trouble.
I really like the choice of energy/strength/speed, but I suspect you should somehow look for ways to tie all of these to the same Stat... or alternatively consider making three simple classes, instead of one class with three aspects (If you can't switch at later levels, then it is the same result rules wise)
Yea probably, but the only reason I allowed this was because the choice is all made at level 1. I originally thought to make it all Constitution based, but I thought that it would be too overpowered to have both your Hit Points and your Attack/Damage/Spellcasting ability all as one attribute. I suppose I could just change everything to Constitution, but it doesn't feel right to me.
"At 1st level, you gain a unique ability that defines who you are and grants you great physical prowess. Choose a Signature Ability detailed at the end of the class description. Your choice grants you features at 1st level and again at 3rd, 5th, 9th, 11th, and 17th level."
Okay, sticking the custom stuff at the end might be standard issue for the rulebooks (I don't know, sorry, haven't seen 5E)... but having the referencing around does make things more confusing. Would it be possible to bring the specials up higher... or at least a basic reference to them (Elemental, speed, strength).
I used the Players Handbook to help with class feature wording and structure. So referencing seems standard per the Players handbook. Certainly, this class isn't a perfect comparison to other core classes, and I understand that "Signature Ability" has more "upgrades" than other classes tend to have. But I looked to the Cleric class, and they are fairly front loaded too with their "Divine Domain" having improvements at 1st, 2nd, 6th, 8th, and 17th.
And okay, how important is it that these classes go to 20th level? You said that this is for newbie players in an epesodic campaign, and maybe giving them a limit level class will make them sad... but if you don't realistically expect them to get to level 8... then....
Hmmm... no, that's probably a dumb idea. I guess I just think, given the goals you've stated, I'm mainly interested in the low levels.
Well, given that this is a full fledged character class, I would say that having a complete character class with features from levels 1 through 20 is rather important. But obviously, new players will most likely not stay in for the long haul unless they really like DnD 5E.
Again, maybe I over emphasized the new player issue we were having, I would actually prefer you analyze the class separate from my backstory rant. I stated all of that just to show what sparked the idea behind this class, but I don't really care that much anymore if this class is for new players or not.
Currently, to fix the issue of new players being new, we have simply told new players that they can only play certain easy classes and if they complain about its simplicity and want more, then they will actually have to open a PHB on their own and read it. Or, we have a different friend who loves to run one-shots on different systems like "Dungeon World" and they can go play those if they want.
I look forward to your future input and thank you for your comments!
nineGardens
2018-10-02, 10:24 PM
Ahh- yes- the old "Here's the backstory but it is no longer the purpose" ... yeah, I know I've run into that one before.
Okay, in that case....
Heck, I'd love to give more feedbacks on the details, but I've never even read 5th edition, so I'm not sure if I'm qualified to feed back on the details.
The concept looks nice, but without knowing enough of the context of 5th Edition I'm not sure how much I can add to the details.
I guess the only thing that sticks out that is... there are fewer decisions at higher levels. Once you've picked your specialism (Elemental- fire for example), then to the best of my current reading the class sort of trundles along on rails- there are few choices at high levels. - Is this correct? Is this intentional?
Many of the classes I've seen in the likes of pathfinder sort of give players the chance to pick and customize as they level up- Witches get a different Hex every two levels, Alchemists get different discoveries to choose from, that sort of thing.
Not entirely sure what to make of that, good or bad, just stuck out as a difference.
Lalliman
2018-10-03, 08:25 AM
These ideas are great, I like them a lot.
I’m not too fond of giving Superman-like resilience to all three archetypes when it seems mainly appropriate to the super strength one, but this is admittedly consistent with how many superheroes are depicted. The one truly unfortunate thing is that the strength character isn’t going to use the Con-to-AC, because heavy armour will always be better.
My overall appraisal (having not yet read the elemental archetype for lack of time) is that it looks powerful but reasonable at low-to-mid level, then spikes majorly at 11th. Both the speed and strength archetypes get a slew of powerful benefits at that level in addition to getting either straight-up Extra Attack, or a feature that’s almost as good as Extra Attack. I think that’s far too much to pile onto their already powerful base.
I also don’t like the 17th level features. They’re not strictly overpowered if the DM runs several encounters per day, but they’re such a powerful nova that they’ll just ruin whatever encounter they’re used on.
Some more specific thoughts:
Is there a reason that it has a d10 hit die with +1 HP per level instead of just a d12 hit die?
Superior Athleticism: If you just want advantage on one Athletics check and you need it this turn (e.g. to shove someone), there is no way to do that, even though you can do that exact thing as a reaction. That’s a little weird. In fact, I find the whole “10 minutes for 2, 1 hour for 3” a little too meta. It’s one of those features that has no thematic idea behind it, it just exists to create purely-mechanical choices. I would just avoid that and make it one stamina for one check (no action cost), especially since this is meant to be a simple class.
Heightened Senses: Incorporating Wisdom doesn’t make a lot of sense. Only the 15th level feature of Heightened Senses uses it, and you get it so late that it’s not worth raising your Wisdom just for that. You’re better off giving advantage.
Adrenaline Rush: If you have 0 you gain 4. If you have 1 you gain nothing. It should just raise you to 4 if you have 3 or below.
Ultimate Resilience is by far the most powerful capstone in the game. (Moon druid doesn't count.) It doesn’t matter because no one plays at 20th level, but I guess it’s worth mentioning.
Strength Over Speed: It’s bizarre that you literally cannot use certain kinds of weapons. What if you’re thrown into a gladiatorial arena with only a shortsword? Nope, have to fight with my fists for piddly damage, because I’m physically incapable of wielding shortswords. You’re better off A) only granting proficiency in martial weapons that have the versatile, two-handed, or heavy property, and B) limiting the damage maximization to such weapons only.
Overwhelming Strength: It would’ve been nice to get doubled carrying capacity at an earlier level, so it isn’t so sudden. I would also reconsider whether letting the character hurl 25d6 boulders twice per short rest is a good idea. At this level, if you land a melee attack with a greatsword and use Powered Strike, you’ll deal about 43 damage. If you spend 4 stamina on this, you’ll deal about 87 damage per target. It also stuns, knocks prone, and it’s a Dex save, which is usually easier to land than an attack roll.
Speed over Strength: Again the weird weapon restrictions. Just don’t provide proficiency with the unfitting weapons. Also, you gain a movement speed of 10 x your Con mod? So if your Con is 16 or below, which it’s almost certain to be until you get your third ASI at 8th level, your speed is just the normal 30 feet?
Incredible Speed: As with the carrying capacity in Overwhelming Strength, this character really should’ve gotten proficiency in Dex saves earlier.
These ideas are great, I like them a lot.
Thank you! I appreciate that!
I’m not too fond of giving Superman-like resilience to all three archetypes when it seems mainly appropriate to the super strength one, but this is admittedly consistent with how many superheroes are depicted. The one truly unfortunate thing is that the strength character isn’t going to use the Con-to-AC, because heavy armour will always be better.
That's pretty much what I had in mind, and I figured at 20th level, you and everyone else are going to be super powerful. As stated, this is a rough draft so I am open to suggestions.
And that's true about a Strength based character, and I suppose it's not exactly synergistic for them. but the main purpose for that particular ability is both flavor, as superheros tend to be more resilient through their Constitution, and also to prevent the class from getting too MAD, an Elemental Energy character can dump both STR and DEX.
This class was unique, because I had to write features for three very different subclasses, where in this particular case one class has Light Armor, one has Medium Armor, and one has Heavy Armor, its hard to please everyone as they say.
My overall appraisal (having not yet read the elemental archetype for lack of time) is that it looks powerful but reasonable at low-to-mid level, then spikes majorly at 11th. Both the speed and strength archetypes get a slew of powerful benefits at that level in addition to getting either straight-up Extra Attack, or a feature that’s almost as good as Extra Attack. I think that’s far too much to pile onto their already powerful base.
I am glad that you agree that things seem reasonable power-wise, that was something I was trying very hard to balance. I actually used the average damage of the "Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast + Hex" combination and also the average damage of the Champion Fighter's 2-4 Extra Attacks to help with keeping "at-will" damage in line with other classes.
I can agree that 11th level does have a lot of piled on features. I actually struggled here, and re-wrote this section many times, moving around bonuses and features. I am definitely open to restructuring some of this, while still keeping the "at-will" damage competitive and other features competitive.
I also don’t like the 17th level features. They’re not strictly overpowered if the DM runs several encounters per day, but they’re such a powerful nova that they’ll just ruin whatever encounter they’re used on.
Fair enough, again I am open to different ideas. At 17th level, I wanted something that made the player feel badass and powerful for a little bit, using the Paladin capstones as a guide. But I am open to ideas here, I agree that this isn't my favorite part of this class, but I had a hard time thinking of how to make this better.
Some more specific thoughts:
Is there a reason that it has a d10 hit die with +1 HP per level instead of just a d12 hit die?
2-11 vs 1-12. Same average but maybe it just feels nicer to have the +1. I could go either way. I used Draconic Resilience to help structure this one.
Superior Athleticism: If you just want advantage on one Athletics check and you need it this turn (e.g. to shove someone), there is no way to do that, even though you can do that exact thing as a reaction. That’s a little weird. In fact, I find the whole “10 minutes for 2, 1 hour for 3” a little too meta. It’s one of those features that has no thematic idea behind it, it just exists to create purely-mechanical choices. I would just avoid that and make it one stamina for one check (no action cost), especially since this is meant to be a simple class.
Okay, fair enough. I thought that as a superhero, you could channel physical prowess for a short time to say "climb a wall" or "to swim better than your average non-watery creature", or to chase after someone through tough terrain better, making a bunch of STR or DEX checks in the process. But I can understand that it might not be necessary. I guess your right that you don't use a reaction to do a check anyway. I guess I overthought that part of it.
Heightened Senses: Incorporating Wisdom doesn’t make a lot of sense. Only the 15th level feature of Heightened Senses uses it, and you get it so late that it’s not worth raising your Wisdom just for that. You’re better off giving advantage.
Wisdom is generally tied with your senses in this game. And I understand that Wisdom is an extra stat for this class, which is why I put the +3 cap to it, but I also give you Ability score improvements just like the Fighter gets, which is a lot. Even with Point Buy, you can have 20 of your primary stat, 20 CON, and 16 WIS by the time you get to levels 14-16.
Flavor wise, I figured a lot of superheros have very sharp senses and perceptions, so that can aid their accuracy. Again, open to smarter restructuring here.
Adrenaline Rush: If you have 0 you gain 4. If you have 1 you gain nothing. It should just raise you to 4 if you have 3 or below.
I guess that's true lol
Ultimate Resilience is by far the most powerful capstone in the game. (Moon druid doesn't count.) It doesn’t matter because no one plays at 20th level, but I guess it’s worth mentioning.
Really? I wasn't sure if it was too powerful or not. Maybe it is. I see the Barbarian and Druid capstones and I thought those were pretty crazy. But I figured any superhero is going to take a beating better than any one else probably. Open to better ideas that don't conflict with other stuff.
Strength Over Speed: It’s bizarre that you literally cannot use certain kinds of weapons. What if you’re thrown into a gladiatorial arena with only a shortsword? Nope, have to fight with my fists for piddly damage, because I’m physically incapable of wielding shortswords. You’re better off A) only granting proficiency in martial weapons that have the versatile, two-handed, or heavy property, and B) limiting the damage maximization to such weapons only.
You might be right about that, I guess I was trying to keep weapon options balanced and even. But maybe just giving specific proficiency for different weapons is better.
Overwhelming Strength: It would’ve been nice to get doubled carrying capacity at an earlier level, so it isn’t so sudden. I would also reconsider whether letting the character hurl 25d6 boulders twice per short rest is a good idea. At this level, if you land a melee attack with a greatsword and use Powered Strike, you’ll deal about 43 damage. If you spend 4 stamina on this, you’ll deal about 87 damage per target. It also stuns, knocks prone, and it’s a Dex save, which is usually easier to land than an attack roll.
This was mostly a flavor option to make the Strength character really feel like he is strong. I guess the idea here is that the DM specifies what you can and cannot throw, I give the power of this ability to the DM.
I agree that the "step-progression" is probably better. My specific challenge here was that I already Signature Ability improvements at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 9th, 11th, and 17th levels. 1st level is already stacked, 3rd level is your "Strike" ability, 5th level is your Extra Attack / Extra Damage ability, which leaves 9th and 11th, since 17th is your capstone. I am open to ideas to restructure this around; it's actually pretty challenging to write a whole class as I discovered lol
Speed over Strength: Again the weird weapon restrictions. Just don’t provide proficiency with the unfitting weapons. Also, you gain a movement speed of 10 x your Con mod? So if your Con is 16 or below, which it’s almost certain to be until you get your third ASI at 8th level, your speed is just the normal 30 feet?
I meant to write "you gain additional" movement speed, so 30 base speed + (CON mod x 10), at 16 CON that should be 60 feet
Incredible Speed: As with the carrying capacity in Overwhelming Strength, this character really should’ve gotten proficiency in Dex saves earlier.
Agreed, I just didn't know where else to put it.
Thank you very much for all your feedback, you have been very helpful to me thus far. I will make some easy changes and start to think about how I can spread out some of these abilities.
Lalliman
2018-10-04, 01:05 PM
I am glad that you agree that things seem reasonable power-wise, that was something I was trying very hard to balance. I actually used the average damage of the "Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast + Hex" combination and also the average damage of the Champion Fighter's 2-4 Extra Attacks to help with keeping "at-will" damage in line with other classes.
I can agree that 11th level does have a lot of piled on features. I actually struggled here, and re-wrote this section many times, moving around bonuses and features. I am definitely open to restructuring some of this, while still keeping the "at-will" damage competitive and other features competitive.
I haven't done the math on this class, but you should keep in mind that sustained damage is the champion and warlock's thing. This class also has damage spike abilities rivalling the paladin. (Powered Strike is better than Divine Smite at low level, though it falls behind by mid.) So if they're made to be equivalent to those classes in sustained damage then they're getting the best of both worlds.
2-11 vs 1-12. Same average but maybe it just feels nicer to have the +1. I could go either way. I used Draconic Resilience to help structure this one.
Well, Draconic Resilience works that way because it's an optional feature. It's just kind of odd like this. It should also be mentioned that having 1d10+1 makes you slightly worse at regaining HP during short rests, because the +1 doesn't apply there.
Okay, fair enough. I thought that as a superhero, you could channel physical prowess for a short time to say "climb a wall" or "to swim better than your average non-watery creature", or to chase after someone through tough terrain better, making a bunch of STR or DEX checks in the process. But I can understand that it might not be necessary. I guess your right that you don't use a reaction to do a check anyway. I guess I overthought that part of it.
It's the action requirement that strikes me as weird. It creates the need to estimate how long you'll be making checks for, and causes the weird juxtaposition that using it as a reaction is the only way to cheaply get advantage on a single check. If you want to equalise the way it's used (regardless of whether the GM thinks swimming across a river takes one check or four), I would let it be activated as a bonus action or reaction, and make it last X duration regardless of how you activate it.
Wisdom is generally tied with your senses in this game. And I understand that Wisdom is an extra stat for this class, which is why I put the +3 cap to it, but I also give you Ability score improvements just like the Fighter gets, which is a lot. Even with Point Buy, you can have 20 of your primary stat, 20 CON, and 16 WIS by the time you get to levels 14-16.
Flavor wise, I figured a lot of superheros have very sharp senses and perceptions, so that can aid their accuracy. Again, open to smarter restructuring here.
But do you really want to dictate what stats the player should use to such a degree? The class demands two of their highest stats, shouldn't the third be up for player choice? What if you want to go super strength and play a dumb lovable brute. You're gonna put your 14 or whatever into Charisma, only to get a tiny little "f*ck you" at 15th level because you didn't choose Wisdom. Point is, Wisdom doesn't seem instrumental enough to the class to incorporate mechanically, when Intelligence and Charisma (elemental aside) get no such treatment. Like, you can have sharpened senses and still be a goober, thus ending up on roughly equal footing in terms of perceptiveness with the really wise guy who doesn't have super hearing. Also, no class ever uses any stat in such a minor way, it's either part of the class or it isn't.
Really? I wasn't sure if it was too powerful or not. Maybe it is. I see the Barbarian and Druid capstones and I thought those were pretty crazy. But I figured any superhero is going to take a beating better than any one else probably. Open to better ideas that don't conflict with other stuff.
The barbarian is an outlier, and the moon druid has to be an oversight. The other classes aren't nearly that impressive. According to the experience budgets for encounter building, a character is supposed to become 16-33% (depending on whether you look at the encounter budget or daily budget) more powerful when going from level 19 to 20. This class becomes twice as powerful and then some. Again though, it doesn't matter. If you like this capstone that's fine.
This was mostly a flavor option to make the Strength character really feel like he is strong. I guess the idea here is that the DM specifies what you can and cannot throw, I give the power of this ability to the DM.
I like the ability to throw objects, it's just too powerful, and balancing an overpowered ability by leaving it to DM arbitration is just silly. Imagine if the wizard had a feature that said "You can cast a 9th level fireball from a 3rd level spell slot, but only by using an 1100 lb boulder as a material component". Obviously yours makes thematic sense and the wizard's doesn't, but it's mechanically the same. 1100 lb objects also shouldn't be that hard to come by. A boulder about twice the volume of a man will be that heavy. Or a large log. Or a horse if you're desperate. I would suggest comparing the amount of damage you can do with a weapon attack + Powered Strike, and adjusting the damage numbers so that throwing objects is a little more powerful, rather than massively so.
I agree that the "step-progression" is probably better. My specific challenge here was that I already Signature Ability improvements at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 9th, 11th, and 17th levels. 1st level is already stacked, 3rd level is your "Strike" ability, 5th level is your Extra Attack / Extra Damage ability, which leaves 9th and 11th, since 17th is your capstone.
Given that increasing carrying capacity on its own is just a ribbon, I think you could easily put that at 5th level. It would make sense given that you get the follow-up feature at 11th.
Dexterity saves for the Flash are a little harder. Honestly, I'd suggest you break format on this and tie saving throws to the subclasses. Str and Con for super strength, Dex and Int (quick thinking) for super speed, and maybe Wis and Cha for elemental energy. The final one maybe doesn't fit with the concept, but doing it this way has two benefits. One, you can have a well-rounded team of just exemplars, for when you want to play the Justice Guild. Two, you lessen the issue that, as I see it, only the super strength subclass fully dedicates to its concept. The super speed is more of a very fast tough guy than a dedicated speedster. Which is fine, but it seems fun to lean into the speedster angle just a little further.
First, I would like to say, thank you again. You have explained yourself well, and I can tell you really understand the nuances of 5E classes, and I appreciate and value your input! I haven't made any official changes yet to the document in the link above, but I definitely will start that process of tweaking this weekend. With that said...
I haven't done the math on this class, but you should keep in mind that sustained damage is the champion and warlock's thing. This class also has damage spike abilities rivalling the paladin. (Powered Strike is better than Divine Smite at low level, though it falls behind by mid.) So if they're made to be equivalent to those classes in sustained damage then they're getting the best of both worlds.
That's a fair point. I didn't really think of it that way. I guess I can tweak the damages a little, to try and balance it better. But I will have to think about exactly what that would look like.
Well, Draconic Resilience works that way because it's an optional feature. It's just kind of odd like this. It should also be mentioned that having 1d10+1 makes you slightly worse at regaining HP during short rests, because the +1 doesn't apply there.
That's also true, Draconic Resilience is indeed a subclass feature, versus this, which is a whole class feature. After thinking about it more, I will probably make it a d12.
It's the action requirement that strikes me as weird. It creates the need to estimate how long you'll be making checks for, and causes the weird juxtaposition that using it as a reaction is the only way to cheaply get advantage on a single check. If you want to equalise the way it's used (regardless of whether the GM thinks swimming across a river takes one check or four), I would let it be activated as a bonus action or reaction, and make it last X duration regardless of how you activate it.
Another good point, and agreed. Are you saying that it could be activated as either a bonus or reaction, to cover both on and off your turn?
But do you really want to dictate what stats the player should use to such a degree? The class demands two of their highest stats, shouldn't the third be up for player choice? What if you want to go super strength and play a dumb lovable brute. You're gonna put your 14 or whatever into Charisma, only to get a tiny little "f*ck you" at 15th level because you didn't choose Wisdom. Point is, Wisdom doesn't seem instrumental enough to the class to incorporate mechanically, when Intelligence and Charisma (elemental aside) get no such treatment. Like, you can have sharpened senses and still be a goober, thus ending up on roughly equal footing in terms of perceptiveness with the really wise guy who doesn't have super hearing. Also, no class ever uses any stat in such a minor way, it's either part of the class or it isn't.
True, I certainly don't want to railroad the character's stats. I agree to take Wisdom out of the picture, and think of something else that fits.
The barbarian is an outlier, and the moon druid has to be an oversight. The other classes aren't nearly that impressive. According to the experience budgets for encounter building, a character is supposed to become 16-33% (depending on whether you look at the encounter budget or daily budget) more powerful when going from level 19 to 20. This class becomes twice as powerful and then some. Again though, it doesn't matter. If you like this capstone that's fine.
Okay, I didn't know about the 16%-33% power increase figure. I am still on the fence here. Maybe I could do "resist all damage except psychic and necrotic" to help reduce the power of the ability a bit.
I like the ability to throw objects, it's just too powerful, and balancing an overpowered ability by leaving it to DM arbitration is just silly. Imagine if the wizard had a feature that said "You can cast a 9th level fireball from a 3rd level spell slot, but only by using an 1100 lb boulder as a material component". Obviously yours makes thematic sense and the wizard's doesn't, but it's mechanically the same. 1100 lb objects also shouldn't be that hard to come by. A boulder about twice the volume of a man will be that heavy. Or a large log. Or a horse if you're desperate. I would suggest comparing the amount of damage you can do with a weapon attack + Powered Strike, and adjusting the damage numbers so that throwing objects is a little more powerful, rather than massively so.
Okay, I can scale down the damage (maybe 3d6, 6d6, 9d6, etc... instead of 5d6, 10d6, 15d6, etc...), and maybe even expand the ranges of each weight category, to weaken it some. So instead of 25d6 (87.5) damage, it would be 15d6 (52.5) damage. That seems better.
Given that increasing carrying capacity on its own is just a ribbon, I think you could easily put that at 5th level. It would make sense given that you get the follow-up feature at 11th.
Dexterity saves for the Flash are a little harder. Honestly, I'd suggest you break format on this and tie saving throws to the subclasses. Str and Con for super strength, Dex and Int (quick thinking) for super speed, and maybe Wis and Cha for elemental energy. The final one maybe doesn't fit with the concept, but doing it this way has two benefits. One, you can have a well-rounded team of just exemplars, for when you want to play the Justice Guild. Two, you lessen the issue that, as I see it, only the super strength subclass fully dedicates to its concept. The super speed is more of a very fast tough guy than a dedicated speedster. Which is fine, but it seems fun to lean into the speedster angle just a little further.
I thought about creating a second 3rd level ability along side with the "strike" abilities. But I could maybe make it a second 5th level ability instead. I got to think about that.
Funny enough, subclass saving throws did cross my side early on when writing this all up, but I dismissed it because I didn't see any other class like that, though this class is definitely not exactly standard. But you're right, differing saves would actually be better flavor wise, and of course would lend well to a well-rounded Justice League, which actually sounds really fun for DnD! I guess in the beginning section, I would have to write "Saving Throws: See class features" or "Saving Throws: Charisma and Wisdom (Elemental Energy), Strength and Constitution (Enhanced Strength), Dexterity and Intelligence (Enhanced Speed)". I lean towards the former.
Just a fun side note, after I do get something that more closely resembles a final product, how cool would it be to "homebrew" more subclasses in for more super powers!
Again, I really appreciate your input here. You have definitely helped me out here. I want to start tweaking my class this weekend and see if I can correct issues addressed. I will definitely post a "version 2.0" soon.
Version 2.0: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sX18u5PY8FvXVehM_TWtmPQ2wEkTRxxrV09laV5MY gY
I have updated my character class today! and now have a version 2.0 for everyone to see! I wrote down a summary of changes below:
Version 2.0 "patch notes"
CORE CLASS
Hit Points:
- 1d10+1 changed to 1d12
Proficiencies:
- weapon proficiencies reduced from all simple weapons to "daggers, darts, slings, quarterstaffs, light crossbows"
- saving throws changed to "see class features", Elemental Energy gets WIS and CHA, Enhanced Strength gets STR and CON, and Enhanced Speed gets DEX and INT.
Equipment:
- "any simple weapon" changed to "quarterstaff"
Superior Resilience:
- No more +1 to Hit Point bonus per level, now it's a +2 damage reduction. Let me know about this choice of change.
Superior Athleticism:
- Simplified everything to be 1 stamina point spent when you must make a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check, and that bonus lasts for 1 minute.
Heightened Senses:
- Removed Wisdom from the calculation, now it's just 2 stamina points spent for a flat +3 bonus to one attack roll or one DEX saving throw. I also thought about making it 1 SP for +1 bonus, 2 SP for +2 bonus, and 3 SP for a +3 bonus, which might be a better alternative.
Adrenaline Rush:
- If you fall below 4 SP, you will be at 4 SP at the start of a new combat encounter.
Ultimate Resilience:
- Resist all except psychic and necrotic. It's still really strong, but at least you have some weaknesses now.
ELEMENTAL ENERGY:
Saving Throws:
- Now added under subclasses
ENHANCED STRENGTH:
Saving Throws:
- Now added under subclasses
Bonus Proficiencies:
- Removed proficiency with martial weapons, instead you get your extra weapon proficiencies under "Strength over Speed"
Strength Over Speed:
- Carry capacity is doubled here at level 1 and will be quadrupled later at level 11
- You gain proficiency in any melee weapon that is versatile, two handed, or heavy. This makes much more sense to me now written like this.
Overwhelming Strength:
- Hurl objects damage reduced to 3d6, 6d6, 9d6, 12d6, 15d6, and 18d6. and weight ranges adjusted slightly to make heavier objects more expensive Stamina Point-wise.
ENHANCED SPEED:
Saving Throws:
- Now added under subclasses
Bonus Proficiencies:
- Removed proficiency with martial weapons, instead you get your extra weapon proficiencies under "Speed over Strength"
Speed Over Strength:
- You gain proficiency in any weapon that has finesse or ammunition properties. This makes much more sense to me now written like this.
Incredible Speed:
- Obviously removed proficiency to DEX saving throws since now you get it at level 1
Hello Again!
I have updated my character class yet again! And now have a version 3.0 for everyone to see:
5e Exemplar Class V3.0 (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jYX3zCgYYunH4M0YdhgjZ6xluK4bQeOw)
I wrote down a summary of changes below:
But first, I would like to thank DM Bob and “The Adventuring Guild” for reviewing this class on his “Homebrew Review Podcast”. A special thanks to MTNrhyno for creating and playing the super-fast speedster “XLR8” using this homebrew class (v2.0 was used).
These guys are amazing and they love reviewing Homebrew classes by playing them in actual DnD settings! You can check out their website and podcasts here:
https://www.theadventuringguild.com/
Below are the titles of the 5 episodes featuring my homebrew class, but there are so many episodes they make that feature all sorts of fun homebrew creations. Please check them out!
• (Level 4) Ep 41 - ToA - Part 1 - Gotta Go Fast!
• (Level 8) Ep 42 - ToA - Part 2 - Your Friends Are Using You
• (Level 12) Ep 43 - ToA - Part 3 - Burn the Lich
• (Level 16) Ep 44 - ToA - Part 4 - Demons in Chult
• (Level 20) Ep 45 - ToA - Part 5 - Half a Mile in 6 Seconds
Please let me know what you think about the new changes. Now without further ado…
Version 3.0 "patch notes"
DOCUMENT FORMATTING
- Colored the background to look more “DnD-like”.
- Colored the section headings to give a more organized look.
- General formatting clean up.
CORE CLASS
Hit Points:
- 1d12 changed to 1d10
Heightened Senses:
- “you can spend 2 stamina points to gain a +3” changed to “you can spend 2 stamina points to gain +1d4”
ELEMENTAL ENERGY:
Special Elemental Attack:
- Fire spell “Fire Wall” changed to “Fireball” with a cost of 3 stamina points
- Electric spell “Storm Sphere” changed to “Lightning Bolt” with a cost of 3 stamina points
Energy Ray:
- This is a new subclass feature! Allows you to cast “Disintegrate” with a cost of 5 stamina points
Final Form:
- Ice special freeze attack damages changed from “4d6 / 6d6 / 8d6” to “4d6 / 8d6 / 12d6”
- Corrosive special attack spell changed from “Disintegrate” to “Crown of Stars”. Deals acid damage instead of radiant damage. Spell ends when final form ends.
ENHANCED STRENGTH:
Destructive Force:
- “Destructive Wave” spell now subjects creatures to a Strength saving throw. Damage dealt by this spell has been changed to “thunder” and “force”
Overwhelming Strength:
- Hurl objects is now its own separate subclass feature
Juggernaut:
- “your melee attacks have advantage” changed to “you get +10 to any Strength check that you make”
ENHANCED SPEED:
Speed Over Strength:
- “10 feet x your Constitution modifier” changed to “10 feet x your proficiency bonus”
- “dash AND disengage” changed to “dash OR disengage”
- Created a limit for the number of times you can move at ridiculous speeds (250ft or more per turn). This limit is equal to your Constitution modifier. Further attempts to move fast will give you exhaustion.
Rapid Strike:
- damage dealt by an extra strike equals “weapon damage die + 1 force damage”
Incredible Speed:
- “you gain 20 additional movement speed” changed to “you gain 10 additional movement speed”
Phase Shift:
- New subclass feature! Allows you to be like the Flash and vibrate your body or hand through solid objects! You can also attack a creature's internals with this ability! Costs stamina and must be under the effects of the “Blur” spell. Let me know what you think of this ability!
Mach Speed:
- For “you gain an additional 50 movement speed for the duration” I added “if you move 250 feet or more in a single turn, you can do so freely without penalty”
- For “you can spend 1 stamina point to attack twice using your bonus action” I added “if you are holding two weapons, you can attack with your offhand weapon twice”
MTNrhyno
2019-04-08, 07:30 AM
Thank you for the shoutout!
That looks amazing, I love the updated theme and the tweaks to the skills.
My only points (in reverse order):
Shouldn't Mach Speed take concentration? So you're not combining it with Blur, etc?
Phase Shift seems amazing!
Clarification: Once per turn means you cannot Rapid Strike more than once with Extra Attack, correct?
I got to try out the strength class next! Seems powerful, but in line with the other three! Will be crazy in RP though!
The final forms don't quite feel balanced between them.
Fire Storm does 7d10 (Avg. 42) to up to 10 people (420) - if you're lucky
Ice holds you in place (on a fail within 5), does 8d6 +12d6 (Avg. 80). Though low damage, being held in place to take damage will increase that value a LOT.
Electric does 10d8 (Avg 50) to 3 people (150)
Acid does 4d12 up to 7 times (Avg. 28 * 7 = 196)
As I said on the review, I am not used to playing high level characters, so I am not sure if these are the values you are looking for!
Thanks again for the updates and I cannot wait to try these again!
Thank you for the shoutout!
That looks amazing, I love the updated theme and the tweaks to the skills.
Your welcome! I am glad you like the updates!
My only points (in reverse order):
Shouldn't Mach Speed take concentration? So you're not combining it with Blur, etc?
Phase Shift seems amazing!
Clarification: Once per turn means you cannot Rapid Strike more than once with Extra Attack, correct?
I got to try out the strength class next! Seems powerful, but in line with the other three! Will be crazy in RP though!
The final forms don't quite feel balanced between them.
1) Yes my bad, I forgot to write in the concentration requirement for the 17th level abilities. I was actually going to require that for all three sub-classes, this is why I changed firewall to fireball and storm sphere to lightning bolt for the elemental blaster so that I could remove the concentration piece.
2) Yes! Glad you think so too.
3) So, the intent is that you use the ability one time per turn... period. It needs the attack action with a weapon to trigger, but it plays more like a pseudo free action for extra attacks. Think of it like this, lets say, you had 18 levels of Speedster and 2 levels of Fighter, and you are two weapon fighting, your attack round would look something like this:
- [Standard] Action to attack with your main-hand weapon.
- Extra Attack grants two more attacks (5th and 11th level upgrades) with your main-hand weapon as part of your action.
- You burn 3 Stamina Points to activate Rapid Strike, granting you 3 special extra attacks because you used the attack action to attack with [presumably] your main-hand weapon. (proc'd off the attack action itself, not the individual attacks)
- You finally use your Bonus Action to attack with your off-hand weapon.
- You Action Surge.
- You use your new [Standard] Action to attack with your main-hand weapon.
- Extra Attack grants two more attacks (5th and 11th level upgrades) with your main-hand weapon as part of your action.
You could ask the DM if you can strike with both main-hand and off-hand attacks evenly for flavor purposes. After the Action Surge, you cannot use Rapid Strike again because I said you can only use it once per turn. And of course, you only get one bonus action per turn. That is a loaded turn for you, but it costed you 3 Stamina Points and your Action Surge use, so it is definitely not a typical turn for you to do that.
4) Yes! Strength sounds fun. I would love to see you play the Super Strength guy! Basically you are the Hulk when he was in the gladiator ring with Thor! I would need someone who is good at math to check out the relative power of all my sub-classes to see if I got the balancing of damage right. I did a basic average damage calculation for some levels for each sub-class, but I am not sure. XLR8 did seem to be doing pretty good with damage output during encounters but it was hard to tell because there was always so much going on in those games.
5) Now this was hard to do. In fact, Elemental Energy sub-class was way harder to build than both Strength and Speed combined. The DnD Gods have favored fire spells over all the other elements it seems, and acid gets the table scraps for sure. So at 9th level, I wanted level 4 spells, but of course this isn't as straight forward as you might think. Vitriolic Sphere is an easy pick, but Ice Storm? Yuck. I allowed Cone of Cold instead because the damage was closer to what Vitriolic Sphere does (assuming a hit). Firewall and Storm Sphere were decent choices but I ultimately didn't want Concentration, so Fireball and Lightning Bolt it is...
But it's another challenge picking 6th-7th level spells for these elemental types. Fire Storm is there and ready to go, but 7d10 damage feels anemic for some reason. Chain Lightning actually does better average damage (against a single target) then Fire Storm but only hits up to 4 people max at a time. Still, average damage seems comparable enough. Where are the cold and acid spells? There really aren't any "blasts" available, so I made up one for cold and gave you the ability to freeze someone in a block of ice Sub-Zero style, and I have no idea if it works well or not. But I figured that 12d6 cold damage plus removing someone from the fight was a pretty good feature. Acid was hard to figure out. I scoured the spell lists to find a spell that I could convert to acid damage and that was competitive damage-wise, and acid needs love right? I thought of Prismatic Spray (with acid only orange rays), but 10d6 felt very anemic especially when compared to Chain Lightning and Fire Storm. Even Vitriolic Sphere's damage seemed competitive. So I turned to Crown of Stars, and while it deals a lot of damage, it's one mote to one target at a time. Plus it doesn't require Concentration which is a big plus here, and I flavored it as you are slinging acid from your body... gross, but pretty cool.
Either way, you are casting 6th-7th level spells inside a one minute window, once per day, at 17th level.
Fire Storm does 7d10 (Avg. 42) to up to 10 people (420) - if you're lucky
Ice holds you in place (on a fail within 5), does 8d6 +12d6 (Avg. 80). Though low damage, being held in place to take damage will increase that value a LOT.
Electric does 10d8 (Avg 50) to 3 people (150)
Acid does 4d12 up to 7 times (Avg. 28 * 7 = 196)
So, Fire Storm does 7 * 5.5 = 38.5 average damage on a hit. The real advantage with this spell is the flexibility and accuracy of the AoE. You can "snake" it to hit all your enemies accurately and avoid your allies pretty easily. The more enemies you face in a single encounter, the better this spell will be. If you hit 5 targets, you will deal an average of 192.5 fire damage.
Ice does not do 8d6 + 12d6 upon multiple failures, it only does up to 12d6 (12 * 3.5 = 42) damage to a single target. But this ability can put the Petrified condition on a creature, so it is possible to remove someone who is dangerous from the fight. And I see value in that. Remember that the spell Flesh to Stone is a 6th level spell.
Chain Lightning does an average damage of 10 * 4.5 = 45 and hits up to 4 targets (180 potential average damage).
Crown of Stars deals 4d12 * 7 or 28 * 6.5 = 182 average damage. You can deal all of that to one target, or spread it out to multiple targets. Spread out to 4 targets, you can deal about 52 average damage to three of them and 26 average damage to the last one.
I think these abilities are roughly equal in power. But it's hard to say for sure.
As I said on the review, I am not used to playing high level characters, so I am not sure if these are the values you are looking for!
Thanks again for the updates and I cannot wait to try these again!
Me neither to be honest, but being able to cast a 7th level spell at 17th level is not out of the ordinary, most full casters can cast 7th level spells at 13th level. The fact that you can only cast it during a single encounter per day doesn't seem crazy to me.
I will push a possible V3.1 update, because I forgot the concentration part. But I appreciate your feedback and constructive comments! I hope more people give this class a try and have fun with it. I truly recommend it for newbie players, as you get a lot of passive "always on" abilities.
Thank you!
Some minor updates. The new version is now "5e Exemplar Class V3.1"
I wrote down a summary of changes below:
Version 3.1 "patch notes"
DOCUMENT FORMATTING:
- None at this time
CORE CLASS:
- None at this time
ELEMENTAL ENERGY:
Final Form:
- Now requires concentration to maintain the form. However, damage taken does not effect your concentration.
- All elemental types will allow you to cast your Special Elemental Attack spell using one less Stamina Point while you maintain your final form.
ENHANCED STRENGTH:
Juggernaut:
- Now requires concentration to maintain the form. However, damage taken does not effect your concentration.
- You can cast your destructive wave spell using one less Stamina Point while you maintain your juggernaut form.
ENHANCED SPEED:
Speed Boost:
- freedom of movement special duration changed from 8 hours to 2 hours.
Mach Speed:
- Now requires concentration to maintain the form. However, damage taken does not effect your concentration.
- You can cast your freedom of movement spell using one less Stamina Point while you maintain your mach speed form.
As always, please tell me what you think!
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