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View Full Version : Non-Spoiler Aid for Jade Regent Required



M. Arillius
2018-10-02, 12:56 PM
Very recently (as in a week ago) my friend and I started down the path of, well, the adventure paths. I have long been a fan and player of Pathfinder but never had the money for the more expansive things involved with Golarion, like Adventure Path's. That changed. I'm currently going through a Solo Adventure of Rise of the Runelords (so please don't spoil that either) and my friend is DMing it for me. She fell in love with Ameiko in particular (my character ended up staying at the Rusty Dragon during the events of book 1 and 2) and there is now a discussion about who will run who through the Jade Regent.

So with the lead up out of the way I want to know one simple thing. Is it possible to modify the Jade Regent (without significantly changing or even breaking the story) to make Ameiko a PC character and the main character in it for a Solo Game? (One player, one PC. Don't worry about the challenge, we're pretty seasoned gamers and enjoy it. I'm only worried about story elements.) The reason I want non-spoiler answers is because if the answer is yes, I'm running it, and my friend can't read the Adventure Path's. If the answer is no, she's running it, and I can't read it. So we can't actually read it ourselves to figure this out without potentially spoiling things for someone who might be playing it.

As far as what I define 'significant' changes or breaks, anything like having to rewrite an entire adventure path, or create an entirely new NPC to take Ameiko's place, would be significant. If I can modify the adventure path with a few different plot hooks (to get the player going in the right direction) and some minor NPC's, that's easy enough, but the point is that we want to keep Ameiko's role in the story largely intact. And somewhere in between would take more work but I wouldn't mind

So, what do you think? Is it possible? If not, why not? And please refrain from spoilers as much as possible. Thank you!

Edited: A point was brought up. This game will be a Solo Game with only one player who has one character. (Sorry!)

Rhedyn
2018-10-02, 01:01 PM
I distinctly remember a part where "certain circumstances" depended on if Ameiko was in the party.

The player's guide did not mention playing her as an option, but I currently do not see an issue with it. My online groups never got very far in it, but that was mainly because they were online groups.

M. Arillius
2018-10-02, 01:09 PM
Hrrrm... That sounds like extra plot hooks for the player, which instead of being a thing requiring changing is actually a bonus in favor of this idea. (Might require moderate edits but those I can handle easy enough.) Thank you for the feedback!

Unless someone comes around saying one of the books just can't work with Ameiko as the PC then I think I might be running this one.

Calthropstu
2018-10-02, 01:58 PM
The answer is no.

Amieko is literally the character the entire story turns upon. She is 100% a massive portion of the campaign. My group that I played with did exactly what you are saying and it was awful.

When I dm'd it, it made a lot more sense with Amieko as an npc. The whole thing is essentially a giant escort mission, with Amieko as the person you're protecting.

So unless the pc is ok wdith staying behind while the party goes dungeon crawling, or the party is ok with the player playing Amieko calling all the shots, I cannot stress the word "no" hard enough.

Just don't do it.

M. Arillius
2018-10-02, 02:11 PM
The answer is no.

Amieko is literally the character the entire story turns upon. She is 100% a massive portion of the campaign. My group that I played with did exactly what you are saying and it was awful.

When I dm'd it, it made a lot more sense with Amieko as an npc. The whole thing is essentially a giant escort mission, with Amieko as the person you're protecting.

So unless the pc is ok wdith staying behind while the party goes dungeon crawling, or the party is ok with the player playing Amieko calling all the shots, I cannot stress the word "no" hard enough.

Just don't do it.

This does bring up a point I eluded to but failed to properly mention. Will edit the opening post to make sure it's noted!

The player in question is going to be playing this game Solo. With that in mind, do you think then that this could work?

Calthropstu
2018-10-02, 02:17 PM
This does bring up a point I eluded to but failed to properly mention. Will edit the opening post to make sure it's noted!

The player in question is going to be playing this game Solo. With that in mind, do you think then that this could work?

That might be doable then.

Keep in mind though, the AP is brutal. It will like crush a single player.

M. Arillius
2018-10-02, 02:19 PM
Thank you for the feedback. That seems to be the consensus thus far so it seems like I'll be modifying Jade Regent a bit.

Reversefigure4
2018-10-02, 04:51 PM
We've run this game with Ameiko as a PC in a 2 man party, and it worked just fine. There's a few changes that need to be made:

- Obviously, you need to rebalance the entire module to work as a solo 1 character game. This is a significant amount of work. But you'd need to do this whether or not Ameiko was the PC or merely an NPC escortee.
- Ameiko will move from being a Plot Device to the protagonist of the story. Personally, I think this a good thing, as it moves her from being a burden you need to escort endlessly to a fighting princess in charge of her own destiny.
- Minor elements of the story revolving around leaving Ameiko in safety while the PC does Dangerous Thing. Some minor bending of logic works when Ameiko becomes the highest level PC instead, thus the most logical choice to do Dangerous Thing.
- The plot centers around Ameiko as the most important and special character. In a group game with one player being Ameiko, this can be a problem. In a solo game, it's actively an advantage.
- Ameiko needs rebuilding (you don't want a main PC with aristocrat levels). However, nothing about the game assumes she will have access to certain abilities, so it's up to the player what she wants Ameiko to be. We went with Paladin/Bard, but there's no reason she couldn't be a cleric or a wizard or a spellthief instead.

The only plot element that needs changing is
At some point Ameiko becomes incapacitated by visions she can't adequately communicate, justifying why the PC needs to do A Thing instead of Ameiko. It would be the work of mere minutes to make the visions vaguer, then give them to PC Ameiko directly to drive the adventure.

But Plot-wise, Jade Regent is a fantastic choice for a solo game. Ameiko gets a string of weighty decisions to make, romance options, a cast of interesting NPCs to travel with, and an epic journey to confront her destiny. Kingmaker is the only other AP that comes close to it for automatically-plotted-for-a-solo-PC game.

Calthropstu
2018-10-02, 06:23 PM
We've run this game with Ameiko as a PC in a 2 man party, and it worked just fine. There's a few changes that need to be made:

- Obviously, you need to rebalance the entire module to work as a solo 1 character game. This is a significant amount of work. But you'd need to do this whether or not Ameiko was the PC or merely an NPC escortee.
- Ameiko will move from being a Plot Device to the protagonist of the story. Personally, I think this a good thing, as it moves her from being a burden you need to escort endlessly to a fighting princess in charge of her own destiny.
- Minor elements of the story revolving around leaving Ameiko in safety while the PC does Dangerous Thing. Some minor bending of logic works when Ameiko becomes the highest level PC instead, thus the most logical choice to do Dangerous Thing.
- The plot centers around Ameiko as the most important and special character. In a group game with one player being Ameiko, this can be a problem. In a solo game, it's actively an advantage.
- Ameiko needs rebuilding (you don't want a main PC with aristocrat levels). However, nothing about the game assumes she will have access to certain abilities, so it's up to the player what she wants Ameiko to be. We went with Paladin/Bard, but there's no reason she couldn't be a cleric or a wizard or a spellthief instead.

The only plot element that needs changing is
At some point Ameiko becomes incapacitated by visions she can't adequately communicate, justifying why the PC needs to do A Thing instead of Ameiko. It would be the work of mere minutes to make the visions vaguer, then give them to PC Ameiko directly to drive the adventure.

But Plot-wise, Jade Regent is a fantastic choice for a solo game. Ameiko gets a string of weighty decisions to make, romance options, a cast of interesting NPCs to travel with, and an epic journey to confront her destiny. Kingmaker is the only other AP that comes close to it for automatically-plotted-for-a-solo-PC game.

I agree. As a party, having Amieko in the party as a pc is... Unpleasant. Especially if she's being played by the wife of the gm *grumbles.*

But regardless, for a solo it becomes much different. You become the leader of a band of npcs, rather than "automatic leader of the pcs because the whole ap is geared towards Amieko." Definitely works.

Reversefigure4
2018-10-02, 07:55 PM
I agree. As a party, having Amieko in the party as a pc is... Unpleasant. Especially if she's being played by the wife of the gm *grumbles.*

It can be done... but it needs some good roleplaying and some real buy-in from the group. Ameiko, her bastard half-sister Ameiko idolises, her family's grizzled but endlessly loyal samurai retainer, and her respected monk tutor from Sandpoint can work great as a party, where everyone builds around the premise ("Why would we listen to Ameiko, and why would she have an enormous amount of respect our opinions?")

It's when you have Empress Ameiko, guardsman Bob of Sandpoint, wandering ranger Joe of the nearby forest, and Kurt the cleric of Sarenrae that it becomes problematic, because the plot squarely centres around one of them rather than all four.

(If I could do my solo Jade Regent again, I'd make the PC Ameiko (or in the Ameiko role, anyway). As it was, we had to invent the fictitious position of Kazuyo, the most trusted advisor who could tell Ameiko the straight facts, to justify why the PC got to make decisions at all. Learned the lesson for Kingmaker, where the pitch to the solo player was "You must be a person who wants to become King. Not involved in a kingdom building, being the King.")

M. Arillius
2018-10-02, 08:03 PM
We've run this game with Ameiko as a PC in a 2 man party, and it worked just fine. There's a few changes that need to be made:

- Obviously, you need to rebalance the entire module to work as a solo 1 character game. This is a significant amount of work. But you'd need to do this whether or not Ameiko was the PC or merely an NPC escortee.
- Ameiko will move from being a Plot Device to the protagonist of the story. Personally, I think this a good thing, as it moves her from being a burden you need to escort endlessly to a fighting princess in charge of her own destiny.
- Minor elements of the story revolving around leaving Ameiko in safety while the PC does Dangerous Thing. Some minor bending of logic works when Ameiko becomes the highest level PC instead, thus the most logical choice to do Dangerous Thing.
- The plot centers around Ameiko as the most important and special character. In a group game with one player being Ameiko, this can be a problem. In a solo game, it's actively an advantage.
- Ameiko needs rebuilding (you don't want a main PC with aristocrat levels). However, nothing about the game assumes she will have access to certain abilities, so it's up to the player what she wants Ameiko to be. We went with Paladin/Bard, but there's no reason she couldn't be a cleric or a wizard or a spellthief instead.

The only plot element that needs changing is
At some point Ameiko becomes incapacitated by visions she can't adequately communicate, justifying why the PC needs to do A Thing instead of Ameiko. It would be the work of mere minutes to make the visions vaguer, then give them to PC Ameiko directly to drive the adventure.

But Plot-wise, Jade Regent is a fantastic choice for a solo game. Ameiko gets a string of weighty decisions to make, romance options, a cast of interesting NPCs to travel with, and an epic journey to confront her destiny. Kingmaker is the only other AP that comes close to it for automatically-plotted-for-a-solo-PC game.

Awesome sauce! This is what I was hoping to hear. Thank you for all the detail all of you! I am definitely getting and running my friend through this now... and it sounds like they can return the favor with Kingmaker... XD

And to anyone that's curious, I actually probably won't be rebalancing the game that much (if the challenge I've encountered in Rise of the Runelords is a good example of things). And my friend loved Ameiko so much that we already restatted her for Rise of the Runelords. (When that thing happened in the first adventure of RotRL, my friend wasn't happy about the thing with Ameiko being pretty butt useless, so we restatted her then and I had an NPC ally for the rest of that thing.) She's currently a Dawnflower Dervish Bard with one 3.5 feat (song of the heart) and lingering performance effectively (though not always) trippling her use of the Inspire Courage Battle Dance. making her pretty darn badass as a skill monkey/fighter/6th lvl caster. It's going to be a challenge but it'll be fun.

Reversefigure4
2018-10-02, 08:08 PM
... I actually probably won't be rebalancing the game that much...

It's worth noting, in as non-spoilery a way as possible, that for 'Reasons', there are many enemies in Jade Regent who want to kill Ameiko. Her specifically. And many are prepared to run significant risks to achieve it (our Ameiko died (and was later raised) from enemies risking their own lives to Coup De Grace her).

Broadly, if you can run 1 character Rise of the Runelords without altering the written adventure at all - which sounds damn hard to me - you can probably do Jade Regent as well, but the plot gives you less wriggle room for people capturing Ameiko instead of killing her and burning her corpse at the first opportunity.

ArendK
2018-10-03, 12:16 PM
One of the key things in the Players Guide gives players the options to be a Kaijutsu heir (where the focus would be less on Ameiko and more on the PC); so running Ameiko herself as a player shouldn't be an issue.

Florian
2018-10-03, 04:04 PM
As a single player campaign, I don't see running Ameiko as a PC as a problem.

Ok, what will fall flat is the "romance" system that comes with the AP, but that's just a minor detail I heard that some people find irritating anyways.

What you should be aware of, is that this AP also makes use of some "heirloom weapons" that are tied to beating the DR of certain bosses that will come up as part of the story. That should be taken into account, as well as how to rebuild and handle the other NPCs that are along.

M. Arillius
2018-10-03, 11:09 PM
It's worth noting, in as non-spoilery a way as possible, that for 'Reasons', there are many enemies in Jade Regent who want to kill Ameiko. Her specifically. And many are prepared to run significant risks to achieve it (our Ameiko died (and was later raised) from enemies risking their own lives to Coup De Grace her).

Broadly, if you can run 1 character Rise of the Runelords without altering the written adventure at all - which sounds damn hard to me - you can probably do Jade Regent as well, but the plot gives you less wriggle room for people capturing Ameiko instead of killing her and burning her corpse at the first opportunity.

I apologize if this rambling levels of detail! I admit I rarely get to talk to other people (aside from my friend) about games so I tend to be pretty willing to spout things out. I haven't found Rise of the Runelords that hard but I admit we tinkered with the character creation a little to make it possible. I got rolled stats, 3 sets and I picked my choice, and I started at lvl 2. With that kind of start it seemed pretty easy. I didn't have anything that broke a 20 but an 18 con and 2 hit dice goes a long way in the beginning. The latter half of the first adventure was harder but I steadily leveled and was basically on par with the bosses. (Each one came pretty close to bringing me down before I got them.) The second adventure on the other hand...

I will admit we curtail save or die effects at our table of two. Anything from Hold Person to Actual Save or Die because neither of us like those options as either a GM or a player. But we have already had ways in place to give the enemies more tactical options to make up for it. In my experience, while it can't be harder then 'you lost your save and so you lose' the combat can be pretty unforgiving all the same when your enemies can, say, hide in plain sight instead. (As one example. I'm thinking of making them into a chart of abilities and spells actually so I can roll randomly in the Adventure Path and be surprised.)

I'll be offering her the same options and if things do tend to prove insane I'll be dialing things back. I actually expect I'll need to dial things up a bit though. My friend doesn't think so but she's insanely good at circumventing problems.

We appreciate all the info you gave, man! I've already started my planning and my friend is quite excited about the game.


One of the key things in the Players Guide gives players the options to be a Kaijutsu heir (where the focus would be less on Ameiko and more on the PC); so running Ameiko herself as a player shouldn't be an issue.

Thank you for the info!


As a single player campaign, I don't see running Ameiko as a PC as a problem.

Ok, what will fall flat is the "romance" system that comes with the AP, but that's just a minor detail I heard that some people find irritating anyways.

What you should be aware of, is that this AP also makes use of some "heirloom weapons" that are tied to beating the DR of certain bosses that will come up as part of the story. That should be taken into account, as well as how to rebuild and handle the other NPCs that are along.

Oooh. Thank you for the heads up!

Thanks again to everyone that replied.

Calthropstu
2018-10-04, 02:18 AM
It's worth noting, in as non-spoilery a way as possible, that for 'Reasons', there are many enemies in Jade Regent who want to kill Ameiko. Her specifically. And many are prepared to run significant risks to achieve it (our Ameiko died (and was later raised) from enemies risking their own lives to Coup De Grace her).

Broadly, if you can run 1 character Rise of the Runelords without altering the written adventure at all - which sounds damn hard to me - you can probably do Jade Regent as well, but the plot gives you less wriggle room for people capturing Ameiko instead of killing her and burning her corpse at the first opportunity.

Yup. I damn near had her three times too when I dm'd it. Didn't help that there were only 2 regular pcs with a third dmpc healbot and an occasional 4th... So I statted up Ameiko and had her and the other major npcs tag along. I killed so many npcs it was ridiculous. That plot device thing got used so much.

Brought Amieko down to the negatives so many times, once a single hp from death. But dmpc healbot is dmpc healbot.