Is the Butchering Axe a viable Exotic Weapon?

[SangoProduction]

I was looking at the exotic weapons, because my class got one for free. Then I saw the Butchering Axe, at 3d6 / x3 damage.

That's an increase of 3.5 damage (over a greatsword) for 1 feat, if you've got at least 19 str.

Power Attack in PF, at level 1, gives +3 damage at a -1 attack penalty.

This seems quite comparable, especially considering the lack of attack penalty, so long as you've got a bruiser build.

The difference also marginally improves with size increase, to +1 more avg dmg, with an Enlarge Person.

[Saintheart]

So far as 3.5 edition comparisons go, a x3 critical multiplier puts it essentially in the category of a polearm except without it being a reach weapon. It's a two-handed and better-damage-dice version of the 3.5 Dwarven Waraxe, which does 1d10 damage dice and has a x3 multiplier. And like the Dwarven Waraxe, if you got it without having to burn a feat on it, then it's better than a poke in the eye.

In terms of the critical damage potential, a 20/x3 multiplier isn't overly impressive compared with some weapons (at least in 3.5), but I'm learning that unless you're looking to play something very flavoursome, it seems the best bruiser critfishing builds are basically mounted uberchargers with incidental critfishing as a secondary goal.

[SangoProduction]

So far as 3.5 edition comparisons go, a x3 critical multiplier puts it essentially in the category of a polearm except without it being a reach weapon. It's a two-handed and better-damage-dice version of the 3.5 Dwarven Waraxe, which does 1d10 damage dice and has a x3 multiplier. And like the Dwarven Waraxe, if you got it without having to burn a feat on it, then it's better than a poke in the eye.

In terms of the critical damage potential, a 20/x3 multiplier isn't overly impressive compared with some weapons (at least in 3.5), but I'm learning that unless you're looking to play something very flavoursome, it seems the best bruiser critfishing builds are basically mounted uberchargers with incidental critfishing as a secondary goal.

I mean, considering that a 10% at x2 is only a 20% damage boost, on average, only shifts an average damage of 7 to 8.4.

While 5% at x3 is 15% damage boost, on average (which is an inconsequential difference, unless you're focusing on crit), and shifts the Butchering Axe from 10.5 to 12.075.

[Boggartbae]

I like the Butchering Axe. There are some cool things you can do with it using cleave, vital strike, and size increases to butcher everything within reach. On the whole though, I don't think it's worth it unless you can really leverage the increased base damage.

Also, Isn't 10% at x2 (19-20/x2) a 10% damage increase? And doesn't a x3 weapon also gets a 10% damage boost from crits?

[Saintheart]

I mean, considering that a 10% at x2 is only a 20% damage boost, on average, only shifts an average damage of 7 to 8.4.

While 5% at x3 is 15% damage boost, on average (which is an inconsequential difference, unless you're focusing on crit), and shifts the Butchering Axe from 10.5 to 12.075.

*Shrug* I'm interested in the critfishing possibilities more than anything else. It's got more damage dice, it dishes out more damage, and it's two-handed. Main thing I like about it is that you got it without having to waste a feat on it.

[stack]

I like the Butchering Axe. There are some cool things you can do with it using cleave, vital strike, and size increases to butcher everything within reach. On the whole though, I don't think it's worth it unless you can really leverage the increased base damage.

Also, Isn't 10% at x2 (19-20/x2) a 10% damage increase? And doesn't a x3 weapon also gets a 10% damage boost from crits?

You can't cleave and vital strike together unless you have a certain Iomedea themed prestige class. I don't recall the name. Not inheritor's crusader.

Here (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/heritor-knight/) it is.

[Boggartbae]

You can't cleave and vital strike together unless you have a certain Iomedea themed prestige class. I don't recall the name. Not inheritor's crusader.

Here (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/heritor-knight/) it is.

Yeah I've seen that before; it was one of the "cool things" I hinted at earlier. There are also two feats that let you do it called All Consuming Swing (www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/all-consuming-swing-combat/) and Weapon Trick: Cleaving Smash (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-trick-combat/). I'm pretty sure that they both stack with Heritor Knight too, for pretty insane damage on the first thing you hit with cleave.

[Cyrocloud]

Yeah I've seen that before; it was one of the "cool things" I hinted at earlier. There are also two feats that let you do it called All Consuming Swing (www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/all-consuming-swing-combat/) and Weapon Trick: Cleaving Smash (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-trick-combat/). I'm pretty sure that they both stack with Heritor Knight too, for pretty insane damage on the first thing you hit with cleave.

The last feat in the new cerberus style feat line let's you vital strike (improved, and greater too) 3 targets within reach as a standard, at full bab. Granted you need to jump a hoop or two to get it working with anything but your fists, and it doesn't come online till level 13. Though the second feat cerberus style feat also gives the advantage of all those hit can't take 5 ft steps and are under an ex dimension anchor effect until your next turn.

[Boggartbae]

The last feat in the new cerberus style feat line let's you vital strike (improved, and greater too) 3 targets within reach as a standard, at full bab. Granted you need to jump a hoop or two to get it working with anything but your fists, and it doesn't come online till level 13. Though the second feat cerberus style feat also gives the advantage of all those hit can't take 5 ft steps and are under an ex dimension anchor effect until your next turn.

Whoa that's a cool line of feats. How do you gain the ability to use it with the Butchering Axe?

[Lotheb]

Whoa that's a cool line of feats. How do you gain the ability to use it with the Butchering Axe?
Ascetic Style lets you use feats that only work with unarmed strikes on a specific monk weapon
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/ascetic-style-combat-style/

You can make a Butcher Axe count as a monk weapon for 500 gp
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-modifications/versatile-design/

But you then need another feat to be profficient in the modified Butcher Axe http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/modified-weapon-proficiency-combat/
OR
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-adept-combat/

And you need a level in Master of Many Styles Monk to use ascetic style and cerberus style at the same time

Hopefully there's an easier way

[Cyrocloud]

And you need a level in Master of Many Styles Monk to use asetic style and cerberus style at the same time

Hopefully there's an easier way

I'm not sure if it's easier, but a varisan free style fighter and the weapon style mastery feat both let you do it. Though no matter what it is feat intensive, at min 4 style feats, exotic weapon prof, some mod wep prof, vital strike + improved (8 feats by level 14). That is if you go MoMS 2/Fighter x, if not you also have to grab weapon focus, imp unarmed strike, and cleave, bringing it up to 11 feats.

[Boggartbae]

I'm not sure if it's easier, but a varisan free style fighter and the weapon style mastery feat both let you do it. Though no matter what it is feat intensive, at min 4 style feats, exotic weapon prof, some mod wep prof, vital strike + improved (8 feats by level 14). That is if you go MoMS 2/Fighter x, if not you also have to grab weapon focus, imp unarmed strike, and cleave, bringing it up to 11 feats.

Feats are so obnoxious. I hate having to be a human every time I want to play martial characters

On a related note, and to try and properly answer the thread question, I think that all exotic weapons can be good if you make them martial with a cracked white pyramid ioun stone. Thats 1500 gp for +1d6 damage over a greatsword, and it gets even better if you can increase in size past a certain point.

[Vizzerdrix]

But why would you even bother with the axe when you could take Battle Poi? :smallconfused: