Cleric: Death, Tempest Or Arcana

[ReaperChaos]

Pretty simple question. At the late game (lvl 12+) which of these three do you think is better in which role? Pros and cons on whichever situation you like, their strengths and their weaknesses. Finally, no Multiclassing is allowed as a rule. Though you are welcome to make suggestions.

[CTurbo]

Tempest is going to make the better tank, blaster, and probably controller too.

A high level Arcana will probably be best at supporting and possibly controlling. They can pick any high level Wizard spell.

Death doesn't really have any obvious advantages here.


They all heal about the same.

[Foxhound438]

I know for a fact that everyone I've ever seen playing a tempest cleric has had fun with it. It's not necessarily 1:1, but in my group that usually means it's pretty powerful, particularly in damage.

Arcana is one of the ones I like, particularly for having potent casting at 8 rather than divine strike. At a high level it's probably not a big deal which you have since you're probably casting leveled spells all day at that point, but none the less the potent casting clerics are a little less MAD early on.

[Man_Over_Game]

I would only ever pick an Arcane cleric if I had an extreme lack of healers and wizards. It doesn't heal particularly well, and it can only get a few of the utility effects of a wizard, but it can do both at a fairly mediocre level. Notably, it's a prepared caster with a number of wizard utility spells, so if you know what's going to happen or what you need to prepare for, I can see it being of some use, but overall it's pretty lackluster.

Death Cleric makes a decent necromancer and melee fighter. The main issue is that it lacks any kind of sustain and only gets medium armor. I'd say Death Cleric is the best pick if you have need for a massive damage dealer. Now, you should have an Oath of the Crown Paladin, or a Life Cleric, or an Ancestral Guardian Barbarian before I'd recommend you pick it, as you don't get any of the defensive benefits of being a Necromancy Wizard, you have a lot more concentration spells, and you just exist to deal damage.

Tempest Cleric is probably one of the better choices, with heavy armor/martial weapons to tank with, retaliation effects when enemies strike you, and control with spells. Survivability is a bit Meh, but better than all of the other options, but it makes up for it in its talent in medium-close ranged combat.

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So, to recap: Arcane Cleric is for when you need a healer with range and utility (as most healers lack utility in 5e), a Death Cleric is good only if your team has more toughness than damage, a Tempest Cleric is good if you need a little bit of everything (but mostly a defensive line).

Since most melee combat characters are fairly boring with a lack of versatility, and the Tempest Cleric has a lot of options (ranged lightning, melee attacks, defensive abilities), the Tempest Cleric is generally valued more than the strictly damage Death Cleric and the utility healer Arcane Cleric, so it'll stand out a lot more.

[Ovarwa]

Hi,

Level 12 isn't where Arcana shines, I think.

Early on, you get your choice of Wizard cantrips based on Wisdom. Fantastic.

At level 17, you have Wish. A Cleric with Wish? Fantastic.

Level 12? Eh.

Anyway,

Ken

[Aaedimus]

Tempest is more fun thematically. The map control is awesome. Moving enemies around the battlefield can be super useful.
Arcana?... gimme them cantrips! Infact, take magic initiate and you've got 7 to 9 cantrips potentially from 3 classes at level 4 depending on your race. If you did decide to multiclass... That could bring you up to a potential 14 or 15 cantrips at level 5 with only a small sacrifice (waiting till level 6 for 3rd level spells).

[Biggstick]

A Cleric post level 12 isn't going to make a good tank without quite a few particular magic items being provided by the DM. If you like to build your character without assuming certain magic items being a given for your character, then we're on the same page.

All the Clerics domains chosen have things that they themselves are good at, but the base Cleric model is still there. You could build a Death Cleric to be a blasty Cleric, or a Tempest Cleric to be a ranged support, it's just dependent on how you choose to play them. In regards to what each domain is classicly good at though, it's easy enough to point those out.

Tempest Clerics have great blasting potential with Shatter and Call Lightning. Fog Cloud is also a pretty incredible LOS denial spell as well. Even though you're wearing heavy armor, I would still consider a Tempest Cleric as one that stands further in the back maintaining concentration on spells. There isn't a reason for you as a Tempest Cleric to want to stand up close to anything going on in melee range (unlike other domains like War and Nature).

Arcana Domain Clerics are your classic ranged support. They have Arcane Eye and Teleportation Circle, which if you don't have a Wizard in your party, can completely change how your party deals with it's exploration/travel. Having ranged cantrips with 120' of range is also a sweet perk. I'd view Arcana Clerics as ranged support.

Death Clerics are ones that I see people always wanting to use in melee range because of their Channel Divinity. Personally, I think this is a mistake. Touch of Death (the Channel Divinity for Death Clerics) works with any melee attack, meaning Spiritual Weapon qualifies. Add on top of that Toll the Dead and Reaper (Death Cleric's level 1 feature in which 2 creatures are targeted with a single necrotic cantrip when within 5' of each other), and you have a solid damage dealing Cleric. Your ideal range is on this type of Cleric is within Spiritual Weapon range, but you can go all the way out to 120' (with Chill Touch) and be just as effective.

All in all, I feel like flavor is the most important thing when considering what domain you want to play. You'll be able to mold your Cleric into whatever you want it to be in game. You can put your Tempest Cleric in light armor and have them use a Longbow, you can acquire Heavy armor proficiency and wade into melee with your Arcana Cleric, etc etc.

[Man_Over_Game]

Death Clerics are ones that I see people always wanting to use in melee range because of their Channel Divinity. Personally, I think this is a mistake. Touch of Death (the Channel Divinity for Death Clerics) works with any melee attack, meaning Spiritual Weapon qualifies. Add on top of that Toll the Dead and Reaper (Death Cleric's level 1 feature in which 2 creatures are targeted with a single necrotic cantrip when within 5' of each other), and you have a solid damage dealing Cleric. Your ideal range is on this type of Cleric is within Spiritual Weapon range, but you can go all the way out to 120' (with Chill Touch) and be just as effective.


It's important to note that Divine Strike (additional damage once per turn with a weapon attack) does require a weapon and doesn't work with Spiritual Weapon (which isn't a "weapon attack"). This is doable with a ranged weapon, though, and could lead to a solid Dexterity-based Death Cleric build.

I do like the idea of using Spiritual Weapon for the Channel Divinity burst, though. Good find!

[CTurbo]

I have played 3/4 of my Tempests as front line warriors and they've been great. The reaction damage isn't so impressive at high levels but it still helps deter attackers from attacking you at times. If I'm standing next to two guys and I already attacked one of them and it shocked me, I'm gonna be hesitant to attack that guy again if there is another option. I love Spirit Guardians and I also love a maxed upcasted Thunderwave when I have a good chance to hit 4 or more enemies at once. I also love Sentinel on my Tempests too. You can be extremely damaging on the frontlines all while sporting a 20+ AC. I'd even go as far to say that your DPR will be MUCH higher than average.

[Aaedimus]

If you can get shocking grasp, warcaster is really fun with tempest cleric as well as sentinel

[Ganymede]

Definitely go with Tempest. Death isn't a real domain and Arcana is from the lamest of the 5e supplements.

[CTurbo]

I like the Warcaster Booming Blade combo

[Man_Over_Game]

I like the Warcaster Booming Blade combo

The problem is with that this requires either:


You to be Arcana Cleric, which gets no martial weapons or heavy armor or any defensive aspects. It doesn't even get Divine Strike to support your weapon attacks
You to spend two feats for the sake of one spell combination. Warcaster alone is good enough (since you can use it with Shocking Grasp), but otherwise you'd need Magic Initiate, and two feats as the MAD Tempest Cleric is expensive
You need to spend a level inefficiently to get Booming Blade (either into Warlock, Sorcerer or Wizard), which requires a 13 into either Charisma or Intelligence

[CTurbo]

The problem is with that this requires either:


You to be Arcana Cleric, which gets no martial weapons or heavy armor or any defensive aspects. It doesn't even get Divine Strike to support your weapon attacks
You to spend two feats for the sake of one spell combination. Warcaster alone is good enough (since you can use it with Shocking Grasp), but otherwise you'd need Magic Initiate, and two feats as the MAD Tempest Cleric is expensive
You need to spend a level inefficiently to get Booming Blade (either into Warlock, Sorcerer or Wizard), which requires a 13 into either Charisma or Intelligence



Technically all you NEED is a High Elf with Warcaster, but yeah to really make the best of it normally it does requires some feats.

A 12th level Tempest with Booming Blade would hit for 5d8+Str every time. That's great even if the enemy doesn't move for the extra damage. At 17th level it would be 7d8+Str per hit.

[Man_Over_Game]

That's actually a great point, totally forgot about High elves with their cantrips. Great call on that.

It is, unfortunately, terribly inefficient to go that route, thinking about it. +2 to Dexterity (when you have Heavy Armor proficiency), +1 to Intelligence (Useless for a Tempest Cleric), and proficiency in several weapons (when you already have proficiency in Martial Weapons).

Definitely a good pick if you're going Dexterity as a Tempest Cleric, though.

[Laserlight]

That's actually a great point, totally forgot about High elves with their cantrips. Great call on that.

It is, unfortunately, terribly inefficient to go that route, thinking about it. +2 to Dexterity (when you have Heavy Armor proficiency), +1 to Intelligence (Useless for a Tempest Cleric), and proficiency in several weapons (when you already have proficiency in Martial Weapons).

I took it by way of Half elf (Moon subrace). +2 CHA (in case you want to MC Sorc for Lightning Lord build), +1 to two other stats, and a cantrip.

Or you can get it via Spell Sniper and use a whip or polearm for your BB.

[Aaedimus]

Now i want to play a Polearm Master Sentinel War Caster Spell Sniper Conquest Paladin

XD

[Laserlight]

Now i want to play a Polearm Master Sentinel War Caster Spell Sniper Conquest Paladin

XD

We did "everyone roll a set of stats, you can use anyone's roll", and I rolled 18 17 16 16 13 10. Do that, and you too can haz ALL THE FEATZ !

[CTurbo]

1/4 of my Tempest Clerics was a Halfling that took Spell Sniper for Booming Blade and used a whip. He's the one that didn't like the front line very much lol

[stoutstien]

If you are allowed arcana and take ritual cast feat u can be a single classed Ultimate support caster

[Man_Over_Game]

If you are allowed arcana and take ritual cast feat u can be a single classed Ultimate support caster

I just did the research into this idea, and it's actually very solid. Of all the spells the Arcana Cleric gets, exactly one of them is a Wizard's Ritual spell. Knowledge Domain is another solid choice, but has two spells that'd overlap with Ritual Caster.

I think Ritual Caster is probably best used for those who have limited spell lists rather than prepared casters, though.

Thinking about it, a monk with Ritual Caster (Druid/Cleric) would be pretty cool. Maybe he writes the spells on his body? Hmm...that gives me a few ideas....

I tried to see if Ritual Caster on a Sorcerer (like Divine Soul) would be any benefit, but I didn't see anything remarkable about the combination other than the fact that they can use metamagic to make the ritual spells last longer, but there's not much use for that. Make Phantom Steed last two hours instead of one, I guess?

It looks like the most versatile utilitarian caster would actually be an Arcane Cleric with Ritual Caster and a maxed out Wisdom Modifier. It'd be unremarkable in combat, but it'd be able to do a ton of stuff otherwise. Good find!