Artisan's Blessing using weight instead of gold?

[RealMarkP]

Artisan's Blessing states the following:



The object can be worth no more than 100 gp, and as part of this ritual you must expend metals, such as coins or other finished items, with a value equal to the item you want to make.


The 100 gp thing is what I have a problem with. If I use a Great Sword as the source material to make arrow heads, how many arrow heads will it yield?

Well, if you ask a merchant in town A, he will say that a great sword is worth 50 gp. In town B on the other side of the realm, it might be worth 500 gp because of shortage of metals. But we can ignore the economy of things for now; lets use what is written in the book. A great sword is worth 50 gp and weighs 6 lbs.

My DM allows me to make items piecemeal. I can craft a full plate armour using the great swords I find from killing things. Great! So, lets assume I can make the armour over 15 days. The armour is 50 lbs, so naturally if I was to use the gold value of the sword, it would take 30 swords to make the armour. Because cost is equivalent in this case.

That's quite a lot of metal. I turned 30*6= 180 lbs of metal into 50 lbs of metal in the form of armour. Likewise, going in the other direction, I turned 50 lbs of armour into 30 great swords. Maybe you can hand wave this and say "the gods helped." and that when metal is lost in the process, it goes into a large shipping container in the sky and when extra metal is needed, it comes out from there. It's like those "take a penny, leave a penny" bowls in convenience stores.

Another example of this would be to take all the metal loot, convert it into an item of least weight but most value and I've basically minmax'd the things that I carry. It's like a bag of holding without the bag.

Anyway, this seems kind of weird to me and I'm looking for a saner version of this ability. One thing that came to mind is using equivalent weight. 50 lbs of metal goes in, 50 lbs of metal comes out. Instead of getting 30 great swords out of a plate of armour, I get 8.333 (50 lbs of great swords).

What do y'all think?

[Mjolnirbear]

You have already asked your DM. He has already allowed you to use your ability to make an item piecemeal. And you're asking for more?

There is nothing in the RAW for you. The ability is quite specific. Your DM has already made it better for you. Stop before the DM decides you're getting greedy and takes it all back.

[MaxWilson]

You have already asked your DM. He has already allowed you to use your ability to make an item piecemeal. And you're asking for more?

Actually, he's asking for less: 8.33 greatswords instead of 30.

I guess it is kind of weird that you can make an 18 lb. pike out of 0.05 lb. of platinum coins.

As a DM I'd be open to altering the ability to work based on weight, although I would still gate it at no more than 100 gp worth of work per usage.


The 100 gp thing is what I have a problem with. If I use a Great Sword as the source material to make arrow heads, how many arrow heads will it yield?

Note: the answer is "one arrowhead", by the book. You don't get multiple objects out of a single Artisan's Blessing.

[RealMarkP]

Your DM has already made it better for you. Stop before the DM decides you're getting greedy and takes it all back.

Well, it's a bit more complicated then that because if we find full plate, I'll make great swords and then flood the economy with them. The logic also works in reverse. So it might be beneficial in one direction to me but in the other direction is would suck.


Note: the answer is "one arrowhead", by the book. You don't get multiple objects out of a single Artisan's Blessing.

Again, reverse the logic; does that mean one arrowhead can make a great sword? Does that mean I just lost 100 gp because one arrow head is worthless in comparison to that great sword? If you limit yourself to 100 gp, why not turn a double-bladed scimitar into a carriage. Both are worth 100 gp.

I probably won't push it further with my DM. It is what it is. I came to the conclusion that if you lock it to a gold amount, the weight can vary. If you lock it to weight, the value varies; which might be worse for the game the if weight changes...

[Sigreid]

It's clear to me that they use value just to simplify and limit. If you need to justify it, I would say it plays to alchemical ideas of the hierarchy of metals and the modern principle of conservation of energy.

[MilkmanDanimal]

No problem with the idea being value as opposed to weight or mass, as sacrificing things of value to appease a deity is pretty much Religion 101 in lots of ways. Platinum becomes plate armor because magic, and you're given that magic because you have pleased your deity with the worth of your offering.

This isn't physics where you're considering conservation of mass; it's magic.

[MaxWilson]

Again, reverse the logic; does that mean one arrowhead can make a great sword?

By the book? No, it's not worth enough.


Does that mean I just lost 100 gp because one arrow head is worthless in comparison to that great sword?

Yes.


If you limit yourself to 100 gp, why not turn a double-bladed scimitar into a carriage. Both are worth 100 gp.

Or a platinum coin into a pike. I already addressed this.

[Man_Over_Game]

It's clear to me that they use value just to simplify and limit. If you need to justify it, I would say it plays to alchemical ideas of the hierarchy of metals and the modern principle of conservation of energy.

This first part seems to be ignored a lot so far. People really need to be addressing this more often.


My justification for it is a bit different. It's a Channel Divinity feature. You're effectively asking your god for a common favor. Gods generally can't interfere much since before 4E (lore reasons), but one thing they kinda justify is responding to sacrifices. They could do more (as in with a Wish spell), but they aren't allowed to. Your "sacrifice" is getting something back of exactly equal value, which is quite the bargain compared to most sacrifices.

"Value" is not something controlled by gods, nor by the Cleric, so it's a common middle ground for a Forge god/cleric to work around without breaking any rules. "The Cleric isn't really getting anything out of it by the terms of mortals, so as long as that stays true I can totally make him anything he wants, right?"

The last time gods did whatever they wanted, Ao got p***ed off and broke everything after 3.5E, then 4E happened and mortals became OP since gods weren't allowed to establish dominance, and now gods are finally allowed to do stuff in 5E. No joke, that's all canon with each edition. So it makes sense that there's a lot more divine restrictions involved.