Sindal
2018-10-03, 11:18 AM
So first of all, sorry if i'm adding to a pile of threats that have already talked about this. This is just my take/opinion on the matter
Hi yall.
If I was asked what my favorite class in 5e is, it's probably sorcerer (followed by ranger). I love the themes, i love the magic. They're cool dudes and I'd happily plan them with their current ruleset without much remorse.
Now depending on who you ask, sorcerers are either 'they do just fine ' or 'they're ****ty wizards'. As someone who plays them and dms (no expert), I thought I'd ask around for a little consensus of sort. I'd like to find out what exactly people would want out of them, and how they tend to fix it (if they do). In most cases, it's always a case of 'more something'. but the 'something' tends to change depending on who you ask because different people value different things.
Sorcerers are about 90% optimized as a class. They're pretty good. Anyone with access to a range of magic is going to get a job done one way or anything and you'll be hard pressed to doubt one that starts pulling typical twin spell or empowered spell tricks on ya. The only real problem, if you asked me, was that making a sorcerer almost feels like surgery. At lvl 1 you get 2 spells (ignoring your cantrips). That's probably a damage spell and a defense/utility spell so you can be functional. This generally means that you don't really get to branch out much of acceptable norms, unless you want to be 'less useful' than that other fellow who has all the spells.
And for fairness, that's fine. Not every class is gonna be a giant library of spells. That's cool. That can be the wizards thing, i don't have problems with that. That said, it does make your entry a bit rough, and as you go along you don't really get more tools to deal with how rough it remains. You get 'more things that have more limitations' instead.
So, I came up with a personal little tweak to sorcerers.
I haven't used it yet because I haven't had the chance to, so that's why i'm asking opinions around the block.
I'm going to list a couple more options as well based on ideas that I've seen flying around, but the first one is the one that I like the most. (possibly because i'm biased)
1) A new feature called 'Engraved spell'
"Your evergrowing connection with your arcane origin allows you to recall spells favored by it, ingrained into the fabric of your being"
At levels 1 , 3, 5 , 7 and 9 you learn an extra spell with the following criteria.
-the spell level must match your current highest spell level.
-the spell cannot be exchanged at a later stage for another
-if your sorcerious original would have you learn an additional spell at these levels, that spell functions as your engraved spell."
-So this is my attempt at giving sorcerers more known spells, but making it special to them and effectively bumping known spells from 15 to 15+5(special). Typically when you get a level, getting just one high level spell means you REALLY have to decide whats important right now. It takes into account spells that you would gain as a subclass feature (giant soul, shadow and divine) and gives a reason to pick the subclasses that don't have an automatic extra spell learnt, because these guys will have the most choice over what these spells will be
-(this part is a big extra that's probably going too far) I've also recently wondered about a follow up ability to these spells. Perhaps at lvl 8 or 9, you get a bonus for casting these spells. Something that's either subclass related, like making divine souls let out a pulse of healing, wild mage sorcerers will always treat this spell as a wild magic check but cannot receive a negative effect from it, Dragon sorcers upping having the spell cast one level higher if the spell is in line with their trait, and so on. Or, a neat idea as a blanket to all sorcerers: If you cast one of your ingrained spells, you have a chance to gain some sorcery points depending on the level of the spell, functioning as a way to refuel in battle and give sorcerers a way to 'cast' more by spending casts. Numbers can be tweaked, but it would solidify that sorcers are the guys who do alot of casting, because they're casting magic, compared to wizards, who are more prepared for every situation.
What's everyone's thoughts on that proposed change's balance.
Other tweaks (All viable, sometimes even together)
2)using the spellpoint system (and giving more sp)
-While a very popular option, technically sorcerers already do this if you convert their spells back and forth. Having it in slots, i think, just makes it eaiser to keep track of 'these are my spells, these are my special ability resources'.
3)More spellslots
-A straight buff to slots seems abusable in some regard. It's never my concern that I don't have enough magic, it's usually my concern that the spells I have won't be as impact as they could be. Spells can be a rather powerful resource when they pile up, and if you never seem to burn through your slots, then that'd be kinda bleh for everyone else who's constantly running out (espiecally classes like warlock who sometimes feel they REALLY don't have much to work with)
4) More meta magic, or all
-While this would be real nice, and probably could be implemented in conjunction with other solutions, there's an argument for personalization. Hopefully if you have a few more spells, you'll have more feasible situations to use your metamagics (If you have the SP)
5) Improvised spell.
-This is an idea I can't take credit for. Essentially, it's a 'rotating known spell' that resets every time you take a sort rest. Once you use it, you can chose to treat this known spell as 'any' of the available spells to sorcerers, and it remains as your known spell until you take a short rest and refresh it.
I like the flavor of this, as you could do a lot of very clutch 'I suddenly know counterspell' moments depending on the situation and it would fit in with sorcerors apparent natural ability to adapt and breath magic. Though i can see where it'll get annoying, if someone has to say "Is there a spell i can suddenly know to fix this problem?"
6) A set list of known spells learnt per subclass (usually 5)
-Another popular option and similar to my idea. This could work really well and if all else fails I would honestly take it, though I left mine open to choice because I'd like people to pick their own flare instead of going with what spells a subclass thinks your flare would be.
There are a bunch of smaller things like taking out material components to spells and the like, but they're pretty small and won't fix the troubles people tend to have.
Thoughts? If you like my idea or like one of the others, probably easier to reference that in your answer as your prefered fix....or just 7)Screw off sorcerors are fine yew
:smallsmile:
Hi yall.
If I was asked what my favorite class in 5e is, it's probably sorcerer (followed by ranger). I love the themes, i love the magic. They're cool dudes and I'd happily plan them with their current ruleset without much remorse.
Now depending on who you ask, sorcerers are either 'they do just fine ' or 'they're ****ty wizards'. As someone who plays them and dms (no expert), I thought I'd ask around for a little consensus of sort. I'd like to find out what exactly people would want out of them, and how they tend to fix it (if they do). In most cases, it's always a case of 'more something'. but the 'something' tends to change depending on who you ask because different people value different things.
Sorcerers are about 90% optimized as a class. They're pretty good. Anyone with access to a range of magic is going to get a job done one way or anything and you'll be hard pressed to doubt one that starts pulling typical twin spell or empowered spell tricks on ya. The only real problem, if you asked me, was that making a sorcerer almost feels like surgery. At lvl 1 you get 2 spells (ignoring your cantrips). That's probably a damage spell and a defense/utility spell so you can be functional. This generally means that you don't really get to branch out much of acceptable norms, unless you want to be 'less useful' than that other fellow who has all the spells.
And for fairness, that's fine. Not every class is gonna be a giant library of spells. That's cool. That can be the wizards thing, i don't have problems with that. That said, it does make your entry a bit rough, and as you go along you don't really get more tools to deal with how rough it remains. You get 'more things that have more limitations' instead.
So, I came up with a personal little tweak to sorcerers.
I haven't used it yet because I haven't had the chance to, so that's why i'm asking opinions around the block.
I'm going to list a couple more options as well based on ideas that I've seen flying around, but the first one is the one that I like the most. (possibly because i'm biased)
1) A new feature called 'Engraved spell'
"Your evergrowing connection with your arcane origin allows you to recall spells favored by it, ingrained into the fabric of your being"
At levels 1 , 3, 5 , 7 and 9 you learn an extra spell with the following criteria.
-the spell level must match your current highest spell level.
-the spell cannot be exchanged at a later stage for another
-if your sorcerious original would have you learn an additional spell at these levels, that spell functions as your engraved spell."
-So this is my attempt at giving sorcerers more known spells, but making it special to them and effectively bumping known spells from 15 to 15+5(special). Typically when you get a level, getting just one high level spell means you REALLY have to decide whats important right now. It takes into account spells that you would gain as a subclass feature (giant soul, shadow and divine) and gives a reason to pick the subclasses that don't have an automatic extra spell learnt, because these guys will have the most choice over what these spells will be
-(this part is a big extra that's probably going too far) I've also recently wondered about a follow up ability to these spells. Perhaps at lvl 8 or 9, you get a bonus for casting these spells. Something that's either subclass related, like making divine souls let out a pulse of healing, wild mage sorcerers will always treat this spell as a wild magic check but cannot receive a negative effect from it, Dragon sorcers upping having the spell cast one level higher if the spell is in line with their trait, and so on. Or, a neat idea as a blanket to all sorcerers: If you cast one of your ingrained spells, you have a chance to gain some sorcery points depending on the level of the spell, functioning as a way to refuel in battle and give sorcerers a way to 'cast' more by spending casts. Numbers can be tweaked, but it would solidify that sorcers are the guys who do alot of casting, because they're casting magic, compared to wizards, who are more prepared for every situation.
What's everyone's thoughts on that proposed change's balance.
Other tweaks (All viable, sometimes even together)
2)using the spellpoint system (and giving more sp)
-While a very popular option, technically sorcerers already do this if you convert their spells back and forth. Having it in slots, i think, just makes it eaiser to keep track of 'these are my spells, these are my special ability resources'.
3)More spellslots
-A straight buff to slots seems abusable in some regard. It's never my concern that I don't have enough magic, it's usually my concern that the spells I have won't be as impact as they could be. Spells can be a rather powerful resource when they pile up, and if you never seem to burn through your slots, then that'd be kinda bleh for everyone else who's constantly running out (espiecally classes like warlock who sometimes feel they REALLY don't have much to work with)
4) More meta magic, or all
-While this would be real nice, and probably could be implemented in conjunction with other solutions, there's an argument for personalization. Hopefully if you have a few more spells, you'll have more feasible situations to use your metamagics (If you have the SP)
5) Improvised spell.
-This is an idea I can't take credit for. Essentially, it's a 'rotating known spell' that resets every time you take a sort rest. Once you use it, you can chose to treat this known spell as 'any' of the available spells to sorcerers, and it remains as your known spell until you take a short rest and refresh it.
I like the flavor of this, as you could do a lot of very clutch 'I suddenly know counterspell' moments depending on the situation and it would fit in with sorcerors apparent natural ability to adapt and breath magic. Though i can see where it'll get annoying, if someone has to say "Is there a spell i can suddenly know to fix this problem?"
6) A set list of known spells learnt per subclass (usually 5)
-Another popular option and similar to my idea. This could work really well and if all else fails I would honestly take it, though I left mine open to choice because I'd like people to pick their own flare instead of going with what spells a subclass thinks your flare would be.
There are a bunch of smaller things like taking out material components to spells and the like, but they're pretty small and won't fix the troubles people tend to have.
Thoughts? If you like my idea or like one of the others, probably easier to reference that in your answer as your prefered fix....or just 7)Screw off sorcerors are fine yew
:smallsmile: