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View Full Version : Looking for a mid-crunch RPG based on medieval Europe



MrSandman
2018-10-03, 11:58 AM
I'm trying to find a role-playing game that matches the title, and I thought some of you might be able to help.

What I'd like is this:
- Medium weight on rules, something along the lines of Fate or The Lord of the Rings RPG.
- A setting (loosely) based on medieval Europe, or a generic system that can easily mimic said setting.
- Some semblance of a system for magic.
- I'm happy with any level of fantasy (low to high).
- All the rules contained in one book. I don't mind if there are companions, adventures, or other side books published, but I want to be able to play and game-master with one core book.

I'd be happy with a game based on Fate or Fudge. I've had a look at Fate's published worlds, but none of them seemed to be what I was looking for. A search for games based on Fudge didn't yield promising results either (other than The Princess Bride RPG, which is already on my list as soon as it comes out.)

What I'm definitely not interested in is one of those clones, re-interpretations, or remakes of D&D.

So if any system comes to mind that hits (most of) those marks, I'd really appreciate your input.

Scripten
2018-10-03, 12:09 PM
Sounds like you might like Ars Magica. It's a little more focused than what your post suggests you're looking for, but it fits a lot of the criteria.

Nifft
2018-10-03, 12:16 PM
I'd be happy with a game based on Fate or Fudge. I've had a look at Fate's published worlds, but none of them seemed to be what I was looking for. A search for games based on Fudge didn't yield promising results either (other than The Princess Bride RPG, which is already on my list as soon as it comes out.)

FATE has Legends of Anglerre, but my group tried it and we found it lacking. I would not recommend it.

There's a Tri-Stat variant for Game of Thrones by Guardians of Order which looked rules-medium, but I have no experience playing Tri-Stat so I can't recommend or not. The publisher is defunct, but you might be able to find a copy online.

B1okHead
2018-10-03, 05:51 PM
Fate is a rules light game imo.

I'd say mid-crunch would be like D&D 5e.

Just my $0.02

Man_Over_Game
2018-10-03, 05:57 PM
I get that you're looking for something that's not DnD, but what about not-DnD are you looking for?

What you're describing is DnD with some more emphasis on weight rules but less emphasis on rules in general.

I mean, we'd like to help, but we'll probably need a bit more refinement to know what we're looking for.

Anonymouswizard
2018-10-03, 06:03 PM
If we're looking more at the 5th century end of medieval Yggdrassil and Keltia are interesting. Both 5th century, both fairly low fantasy, both very well researched, with Yggdrassil being 5th century Norsemen (Vikings) and Keltia being 5th century Britons focusing on the King Arthur mythos (more the older Welsh version rather than the modern English/French version despite being made by frogs). They use the save system, due to having been made by the same people, which boils down to 'roll stat d10, take best two and add skill', Yggdrassil has three magic systems (Skaldic magic, ritual magic*, and runic magic) while Keltia makes Druids/Priestesses, Bards, and Magicians use the ritual magic system (although only Druids and Priestesses get access to the entire list).

Plus iron age Vikings and Celts is just plain cool. Sure, they aren't knights and princesses, but there's a lot of games that focus on them so I thought I'd throw out something a bit less normal.

*In the 'do actions for effect' sense, rituals ate actually quick enough for combat.

EDIT: although personally I consider Fate a bit in the heavy end of medium, a light system is something like Crash Pandas, Honey Heist, or Lasers and Feelings, whereas D&D5e is rules heavy. Now I personally like rules heavy, by I've found a good medium system like UA or Fate goes down better.

2D8HP
2018-10-03, 06:03 PM
The Fourth edition of King Arthur Pendragon (which had a magic system) fits the bill nicely, the other editions (up to a 5.2 now!) have a narrower focus (you play a Knight, a Lady, a Maid, or a Squire) but the game is AWESOME!, you should play it, swords and smiles are better than spells anyway (though some Ladies can make magic potions!).

IIRC the "Beyond the Wall" supplement for the 4th edition of Pendragon had a "Heathen magic" expansion as well, if you really want magic, my own idea (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?523070-Sorcery-amp-Chivalry-(Stormbringer-and-Pendragon)) was to use the Stormbringer magic system.

The Mythic Iceland game would be a good choice as well.

gkathellar
2018-10-03, 07:16 PM
I’ll second Ars Magica as worth taking a look at.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-10-03, 08:23 PM
Ars Magica is a game I own and have heard wonderful things about, but have not played. Might be a bit crunchier than you want, though. I've heard good things about Fantasy AGE, Blue Rose, and REIGN.

But... it sounds like you've considered Fate; why not just take Fate Core and add extras as necessary?


FATE has Legends of Anglerre, but my group tried it and we found it lacking. I would not recommend it.
Same. I did a few sessions with it and was generally very disappointed-- it felt like someone started to write setting-specific rules for Fate, but didn't stop until they'd built an entire mediocre mid-crunch system.


Fate is a rules light game imo.
Depends on the edition-- some derivatives (Legends of Anglerre and the Dresden Files RPG, for instance) definitely tack on enough extra stuff to count as rules-medium.

MrSandman
2018-10-04, 05:48 AM
Sounds like you might like Ars Magica. It's a little more focused than what your post suggests you're looking for, but it fits a lot of the criteria.

I’ll second Ars Magica as worth taking a look at.

Ars Magica is a game I own and have heard wonderful things about, but have not played. Might be a bit crunchier than you want, though. I've heard good things about Fantasy AGE, Blue Rose, and REIGN.

Ars Magica is that game where everyone has several characters (mage and one servant for each other mage?). Could anyone elaborate a bit on how that works?


FATE has Legends of Anglerre, but my group tried it and we found it lacking. I would not recommend it.

Same. I did a few sessions with it and was generally very disappointed-- it felt like someone started to write setting-specific rules for Fate, but didn't stop until they'd built an entire mediocre mid-crunch system.

I have actually read great things about Legends of Anglerre. The company stopped publishing it a few years ago, though. So I'd rather not spend £40 on a second hand book. Especially not now that I've got mixed reviews for it.


If we're looking more at the 5th century end of medieval Yggdrassil and Keltia are interesting. Both 5th century, both fairly low fantasy, both very well researched, with Yggdrassil being 5th century Norsemen (Vikings) and Keltia being 5th century Britons focusing on the King Arthur mythos (more the older Welsh version rather than the modern English/French version despite being made by frogs). They use the save system, due to having been made by the same people, which boils down to 'roll stat d10, take best two and add skill', Yggdrassil has three magic systems (Skaldic magic, ritual magic*, and runic magic) while Keltia makes Druids/Priestesses, Bards, and Magicians use the ritual magic system (although only Druids and Priestesses get access to the entire list).

Plus iron age Vikings and Celts is just plain cool. Sure, they aren't knights and princesses, but there's a lot of games that focus on them so I thought I'd throw out something a bit less normal.


That sounds really cool. I love Viking-themed games. I'll definitely have a look at Yggdrassil.


The Fourth edition of King Arthur Pendragon (which had a magic system) fits the bill nicely, the other editions (up to a 5.2 now!) have a narrower focus (you play a Knight, a Lady, a Maid, or a Squire) but the game is AWESOME!, you should play it, swords and smiles are better than spells anyway (though some Ladies can make magic potions!).

The Mythic Iceland game would be a good choice as well.

If the game is good, I might not mind it not having a magic system so much. I'll have a look at both games. Thank you!




But... it sounds like you've considered Fate; why not just take Fate Core and add extras as necessary?


There are two main reasons I'm looking for something else. The first one is that I have thus far been unable to find a magic system for Fate that I particularly like. The second one is that this might be a good opportunity to expand my collection and deepen my understanding of role-playing games, which is always good.

Scripten
2018-10-04, 08:06 AM
Ars Magica is that game where everyone has several characters (mage and one servant for each other mage?). Could anyone elaborate a bit on how that works?


Essentially, yes. There are a few different types of characters that each player takes control of for various different situations. They range from grogs, which are mundane and joyfully disposable, to the magi/magae that are very much not. The entire game centers around magic in an alternate Europe, so if you're looking for anything besides that, another system might be better.

The Glyphstone
2018-10-04, 09:48 AM
Ars Magica is that game where everyone has several characters (mage and one servant for each other mage?). Could anyone elaborate a bit on how that works?


From what I understand, it's meant to be a rotating cast system. On any one adventure, you have one person playing their Magus and all the others playing a Grog henchperson (their Magi are busy researching or experimenting). The next adventure, someone else plays their Magus alongside their Grogs, and you (theoretically) rotate through everyone getting to be the most powerful character in turn.

martixy
2018-10-05, 03:49 AM
I can't offer a positive suggestion, but I can tell you D&D is NOT IT.

Talking about the "medieval Europe" part here.
In almost all incarnations the heroic fantasy it peddles is closer to classical greek mythos than medieval Europe.

Poppyseed45
2018-10-07, 01:39 AM
I’m a bit LTTP, but I think Mythras ticks off all the boxes. It’s mid crunch, with tactical combat but not grid. It’s for fantasy (but leans low fantasy). A lot of it’s supplements are historical ones (Mythic Britain, Rome, Constantinople, and the soon coming Mythic Greece) but it also has a pure fantasy world (Thennla, with three supplements; a generic one for the world, and two outlining two particular regions; I’m most fond of this, actually). 5 different magic systems so there’s plenty of variety, and the book tells you how to tweak things further if you want. It’s a one book game, though the fluff is in the aforementioned supplements.

Frankly, I think it keeps but suit you. It even had some “new age” narrative elements (there are Passions, which help you do stuff at critical moments, and there’s a type of save your ass points that each character gets, plus extra ones from creating connections between player characters). I really can’t gush about this game enough.

Knaight
2018-10-07, 02:04 AM
I'd be happy with a game based on Fate or Fudge. I've had a look at Fate's published worlds, but none of them seemed to be what I was looking for. A search for games based on Fudge didn't yield promising results either (other than The Princess Bride RPG, which is already on my list as soon as it comes out.

In that case, I have two suggestions. The first is something I suspect you missed - Fudge has a medieval fantasy RPG built off of it (technically two, but one is far more official than the other), by the name of Deyrini Realms. It's based off the Deyrini novels, which I don't particularly know, but it seems like it might fit what you need. That's item 1.

Item 2 is Chronica Feudalis. It's mid-crunch, it has some Fate like aspects (in the aspect of Fate like Aspects), and there's a lot of core system design decisions to recommend it, most notably four similar subsystems for parley, chases, subterfuge (stealth and counter-stealth) and the good old standby of combat. It also handles tools pretty well.

Rhedyn
2018-10-08, 10:09 AM
Question:

Why can you not take any OSR retro clone and run it in Fudge?

The OSR community has a pretty strong love affair with this setting idea and I've heard lots of praise for Lion and Dragon. It seems simple to me to just run it with Fudge.

Knaight
2018-10-08, 11:42 AM
Question:

Why can you not take any OSR retro clone and run it in Fudge?
You totally can, though doing so is somehow redundant - someone already made a game called Hack'n'Slash for Fudge, which basically covers this same niche. That said, it's off for this particular thread, because:


What I'm definitely not interested in is one of those clones, re-interpretations, or remakes of D&D.

Which is why the Fudge game I recommended was Deyrini Realms instead. It's still fantasy, but far more medieval, from not really being aimed at dungeon crawling at all to more medieval setting elements (e.g. monotheism).

MrSandman
2018-10-09, 12:11 PM
Question:

Why can you not take any OSR retro clone and run it in Fudge?

The OSR community has a pretty strong love affair with this setting idea and I've heard lots of praise for Lion and Dragon. It seems simple to me to just run it with Fudge.
Because I'm not a huge fan of OSR, and I'm not particularly looking to emulate old school D&D with Fudge. Thanks for the suggestion, though.


In that case, I have two suggestions. The first is something I suspect you missed - Fudge has a medieval fantasy RPG built off of it (technically two, but one is far more official than the other), by the name of Deyrini Realms. It's based off the Deyrini novels, which I don't particularly know, but it seems like it might fit what you need. That's item 1.

Item 2 is Chronica Feudalis. It's mid-crunch, it has some Fate like aspects (in the aspect of Fate like Aspects), and there's a lot of core system design decisions to recommend it, most notably four similar subsystems for parley, chases, subterfuge (stealth and counter-stealth) and the good old standby of combat. It also handles tools pretty well.

I had missed them indeed! Thank you very much. And they're on Amazon for a good price too. Since Yggdrasill is out of print for now, I think I'll get those.

Knaight
2018-10-09, 01:12 PM
Also if you want to do houserules or pointers towards other Fudge resources hit me up. Inasmuch as I have a primary system I mostly play it's Fudge.

The Jack
2018-10-09, 05:24 PM
Consider reskining World of Darkness's dark ages line. problem with those books, however, is that while they're easy on the players, different editions have different problems and you'd be best as a GM to read a few editions to get their meaning... though that's mostly not a problem when you're reskinning it.

You should take houserules to speed the combat up though.


I can't offer a positive suggestion, but I can tell you D&D is NOT IT.

Talking about the "medieval Europe" part here.
In almost all incarnations the heroic fantasy it peddles is closer to classical greek mythos than medieval Europe.

DnD, particularly 5e, is so open to any kind of play (It has a lot of minor chinks in the chain but they're easy fixes when you come to them) that if you had a good idea of what medieval europe was like then you'd have a good base to play with.

But here's the thing
Learn how medieval europe actually worked, then your options are limitless. Games that adhere to 'history' or specific myths should be met wearily, they're often wrong with biases or shoddy research or a poor understanding of context.