Good/Neutral gods with the Darkness domain?

[tadkins]

Just wondering if there are any out there. D&D seems to portray most darkness and shadowy related stuff as unabashed evil, but I had an idea for a character at some point. Basically someone who believes that the darkness is a soothing, comforting force, in contrast to the oftentimes harsh and judgmental Sun/Light.

Are there any suitable gods out there or would that concept be better off as a deity-less cleric?

[Nifft]

There are some, but yeah not many.

One I recall is Xan Yae (Greyhawk) -- she's True Neutral; her domains are Celerity, Darkness, Knowledge, Night, Trickery, and War.

[Maat Mons]

Xan Yae

If I'm not mistaken, she offers the shadow domain, not the darkness domain.

Honestly, I'm surprised that none of the moon deities offer the darkness domain. But I guess the moon can be in the sky in daylight too. And the moon is a source of light.

[Thurbane]

Ibrandul (CN).

[tadkins]

Interesting. Thanks all so for, keep 'em coming. :)

Alternatively I thought of two other options.

-Play a neutral follower of one of the evil deities. Bit of a challenge there as I think most evil deities require you to perform genuine acts of evil as part of their worship.

-Just screw it and be evil. If D&D says darkness is evil, then why fight it? Why not just embrace it? *goes village burning*

[noob]

Interesting. Thanks all so for, keep 'em coming. :)

Alternatively I thought of two other options.

-Play a neutral follower of one of the evil deities. Bit of a challenge there as I think most evil deities require you to perform genuine acts of evil as part of their worship.

-Just screw it and be evil. If D&D says darkness is evil, then why fight it? Why not just embrace it? *goes village burning*

Or something completely valid is to play your evil character just like if it was good and randomly kick puppies or summon fiendish creatures to gain enough evil points to stay on the evil alignment.

[DeTess]

Or something completely valid is to play your evil character just like if it was good and randomly kick puppies or summon fiendish creatures to gain enough evil points to stay on the evil alignment.

Another thing is that just because you have the 'Evil' tag doesn't mean you can't aspire to do something heroic. If the overal campaign goal is to kill the world-eating dragon, then an evil character could easily and happily contribute to that. He/She might have a lot less trouble with murder, assassination, torture and raising the undead to get the job done, but they wouldn't really need to have any sort of ulterior motive outside of 'killing the threat to the world'.

[LuminousWarrior]

Evil is evil, not stupid. You don't have to kick puppies on a daily basis to be evil. When you're given the chance to choose between an Evil act that hinders your goals and a Good act that helps your goals an Evil character is allowed to choose the Good act. Just make sure that one of your goals involves keeping your party alive and not getting murdered by your own team.

[the_david]

Or you could just make your own deity, if your DM allows it. There's nothing wrong with that. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?561642-Deities-and-Legends-for-Everyone)

[noob]

Evil is evil, not stupid. You don't have to kick puppies on a daily basis to be evil. When you're given the chance to choose between an Evil act that hinders your goals and a Good act that helps your goals an Evil character is allowed to choose the Good act. Just make sure that one of your goals involves keeping your party alive and not getting murdered by your own team.

Another thing is that just because you have the 'Evil' tag doesn't mean you can't aspire to do something heroic. If the overal campaign goal is to kill the world-eating dragon, then an evil character could easily and happily contribute to that. He/She might have a lot less trouble with murder, assassination, torture and raising the undead to get the job done, but they wouldn't really need to have any sort of ulterior motive outside of 'killing the threat to the world'.
well while you are not saying false stuff kicking puppies allows a good person to have the evil alignment and is as much a way to play evil as the ways you create: evil is not necessarily a description of the mentality it can also describe that you have enough evil points to be considered evil by game mechanics so someone with a good mentality just needs to do common enough evil acts(no matter how small or insignificant they are) to get the evil alignment and so you can play your good character and have the evil alignment if it helps your build.

While you are both describing evil people with the evil alignment that happens to do good because of the situations which is not the same kind of characters to role-play as a good character that describes how it kick puppies in its downtime every five sessions and the latter is way easier to role-play for someone which is used to play good characters(as you just have to reuse a standard sentence every four sessions) and there is way less risks of friction with the rest of the team than something like killing or torturing opponents(I mean normal good people subdue opponents and then bring them in the redeemery is not it?).

[gkathellar]

Yondalla has a dark aspect, referred to a Dallah Thaun, who is Chaotic Neutral. They are pretty specifically two sides of the same coin and have no animosity despite their alignment conflict. Not quite what you're looking for, but other than Xan Yae, I think it's as close as you'll plausibly get.

[Eldan]

I'm looking at a list of AD&D gods in On Hallowed Ground right now. They don't have domains, as such, but the list of portfolios is a hint, at least.

What I've found:
Nut, of the Egyptian Pantheon, goddes of the night sky. Her title is "Mother Night", she's neutral good, her symbol is a star, her domain is called "Night's Refuge" on Elysium. And her influence is the sky, forbidden love and the quiet of the night.

Untamo, Finnish God of dreams (the only Untamo I can find on the internet is a name from the Kalevala, but doesn't seem to have anything to do with dreams.) But he's a neutral god of dreams, symbol of a closed eye. Description seems distinctly unfriendly, though: he puts people to sleep because he wants to be left alone.

Hecate, Greek Goddess. Given as Chaotic Evil, for some reason, though I don't really buy it. Magic, Moon, wealth, Darkness. Fun fact: said to have "history" with Loki of the Norse pantheon.

Ratri, Vedic Goddess. Her Title is Queen of the Night, she's chaotic neutral, her realm is darkness and the night. It doesn't say much about what she actually does, though, except that if someone offends her, she denies them darkness, by shining eternal light on them that makes it so they can never rest again.

Also I'm not sure if the good Drow Goddess Elistraee has anything about darkness, but she might fit. Her shtick is dancing in moonlight.

So, I hope that at least gives you a few names to google, or to take as inspiration.

[Nifft]

If I'm not mistaken, she offers the shadow domain, not the darkness domain. From what I've seen, many lists of Greyhawk gods were published before the Darkness domain was published (Spell Compendium).


Honestly, I'm surprised that none of the moon deities offer the darkness domain. But I guess the moon can be in the sky in daylight too. And the moon is a source of light. Again, might be publication timing.


Two more Greyhawk gods:

Kurell (Oeridian pantheon) -- CN God of Jealousy, Revenge, and Theft -- Chaos, Darkness, Luck, Retribution, Trickery

Thautam (Dwarven pantheon) -- TN God of Magic and Darkness -- not listed with the Darkness domain but c'mon.

[tadkins]

As an example, if I were playing in Forgotten Realms, how difficult would it be to pull off a True Neutral cleric of Shar?


not listed with the Darkness domain but c'mon.

I feel like this could apply to a lot of deities and domains. xD

[Nifft]

I feel like this could apply to a lot of deities and domains. xD

Too true :biggrin:

Well, that's why we have a live DM and not a computer program.

[hamishspence]

As an example, if I were playing in Forgotten Realms, how difficult would it be to pull off a True Neutral cleric of Shar?

You'd need to talk your DM into overriding "A cleric may not be neutral unless his deity’s alignment is also neutral."

That said, the Heretic of the Faith feat is designed around being two steps away instead of one - I could see there being TN heretical cults of gods that are not TN.

[tadkins]

You'd need to talk your DM into overriding "A cleric may not be neutral unless his deity’s alignment is also neutral."



Oh! I always thought a cleric could be any alignment that was one step away from their deities.

[hamishspence]

Any alignment except TN, apparently. To be a TN cleric, your deity (or cause or whatever, though it doesn't state that outright, focusing on clerics with deities rather than those without) needs to be TN too.

[tadkins]

Any alignment except TN, apparently. To be a TN cleric, your deity (or cause or whatever, though it doesn't state that outright, focusing on clerics with deities rather than those without) needs to be TN too.

I remember reading a book (forgot which ones) that talked about the virtues of neutral clerics of Nerull, Vecna, and Erythnul. Forgot which one it was, but it was because of that book I thought they were possible.

[hamishspence]

I remember reading a book (forgot which ones) that talked about the virtues of neutral clerics of Nerull, Vecna, and Erythnul. Forgot which one it was, but it was because of that book I thought they were possible.

Maybe it was third party? Or for a different edition? Erythnul can at least have CN clerics.

[Nifft]

I remember reading a book (forgot which ones) that talked about the virtues of neutral clerics of Nerull, Vecna, and Erythnul. Forgot which one it was, but it was because of that book I thought they were possible.

Sounds like Complete Champion, page 27.

[Particle_Man]

That said, you can be an LN cleric of an LE god or a CN cleric of a CE god, so it is only TN that has that restriction of TN god only.

Outside of divine stuff, there is the Shadow Sun Ninja, I suppose. They are a good-aligned prestige class that use both light and darkness to fight evil.

Along the same lines, Ruby Knight Vindicator is a prestige class that worships Wee Jas (LN) but have a lot of shadow powers at their disposal. And they are clerics. Not the darkness domain as such, but, y'know, close.

That said, a cleric could just worship two domains without a god at all, per core rules. Darkness and . . . Good, perhaps? You try to show that Darkness can be a good thing? Maybe wants to warn people about Pelor the Burning Hate?

[tadkins]

Maybe it was third party? Or for a different edition? Erythnul can at least have CN clerics.


Sounds like Complete Champion, page 27.

Aye, that sounds about right. I'll have to read it again and be sure.


That said, a cleric could just worship two domains without a god at all, per core rules. Darkness and . . . Good, perhaps? You try to show that Darkness can be a good thing? Maybe wants to warn people about Pelor the Burning Hate?

I would totally go with this route, but that's dependent on a DM allowing deity-less clerics. And from my experiences (and a post I made a while back) a lot of DMs think that's stupid and won't allow them. So I try to find a relatable god as backup.

[Particle_Man]

If the "Heretic of the Faith" feat from Power of Faerun is allowed, that might give you more alignment and/or domain options. The nicest way would be to find a god that is good and probably "should" have the darkness domain, if you go this route.

[Maat Mons]

Also I'm not sure if the good Drow Goddess Elistraee has anything about darkness, but she might fit. Her shtick is dancing in moonlight.

She does offer the night domain. So do Celestian and Selune, for that matter.




From what I've seen, many lists of Greyhawk gods were published before the Darkness domain was published (Spell Compendium).

The darkness domain was published in Deities and Demigods, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, and Player's Guide to Faerun.




That said, the Heretic of the Faith feat is designed around being two steps away instead of one - I could see there being TN heretical cults of gods that are not TN.

It also lets you choose a domain not offered by your deity. So you could be a cleric of Pelor and have the darkness domain.

Of course, outside of the Forgotten Realms, you can just be a cleric without a deity. So this would mostly only be beneficial if you wanted to qualify for a prestige class or feat that requires worshiping a specific deity.

[Vizzerdrix]

You try to show that Darkness can be a good thing? Maybe wants to warn people about Pelor the Burning Hate?

A desert people may end up seeing every bit of shade as a small gift from the gods. Or even have their own god based around such an idea. A god pf oasis perhaps?