Skills not present in any books

[heavyfuel]

A lot of Character Sheets leave blank spaces for you to add skills not originally present on them.

This can be used for splat book skills such as "Iaijutsu Focus" or "Martial Lore", but I've also heard of DMs that allow for completely different skills, not listed in any book. While a theoretical "Knowledge (Biochemistry)" skill might fit this category, the "Knowledge" skill already does.

Have you ever seen a completely new skill being used? Which?

[RaiKirah]

While not 3.5, I've been playing a game with some friends through roll20 and a friend of mine added 'Door Kickin' to his skill list. The DM is letting it stand :P

[SimonMoon6]

Not in 3.5, but in the various Chaosium rules sytems (Call of Cthulhu, Elric/Stormbringer/Hawkmoon, Superworld, Runequest, etc), I have added skills that weren't on the character sheet (not even counting the necessary addition of Dreamlands skills to a Call of Cthulhu character sheet).

Some were serious, some were silly (like the "Being a King" skill for a player who became king of a city in the Dreamlands), and some were downright odd, such as "Polyontology", for a character who was learning about the very nature of reality in a multiverse (hence "poly" in front of "ontology").

[rferries]

I humbly submit Warcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?553079-Warcraft-(Spellcraft-counterpart-not-the-game-)-)&p=22903787).

[Particle_Man]

I had a DM that allowed my character to put ranks into Scent (as an analogue to Spot and Listen) since I had that ability.

[Arael666]

I had a DM that allowed my character to put ranks into Scent (as an analogue to Spot and Listen) since I had that ability.

Sounds more like nerf to the scent ability than just adding another skill, scent lets you automatically detect anything within it's radius. Also, what would be the opposed check? Shower?

[Particle_Man]

Sounds more like nerf to the scent ability than just adding another skill, scent lets you automatically detect anything within it's radius. Also, what would be the opposed check? Shower?

Actually the skill allowed me to boost the range if I hit certain target DCs. I once smelled a particular individual clear across town (ok I rolled a natural 20 too, but still).

[Knaight]

I haven't seen this in 3.5 specifically, but I have seen skills in other fantasy games that would make sense in 3.5 and notably aren't there. For instance, the one I'm currently working includes Pyrology as a skill, representing how good you are at lighting and controlling fires. It could absolutely apply to D&D, and it doesn't really fit the Craft/Knowledge/Profession skills well.

[Thurbane]

I know this is not exactly what you're looking for, but outside of the PHB, some official skills include:

Autohypnosis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/autohypnosis.htm)
Control Shape (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm)
Handle Humanoid (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c)
Iaijutsu Focus
Knowledge (psionics) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/knowledgePsionics.htm)
Lucid Dreaming
Martial Lore
Psicraft (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/psicraft.htm)
Truespeak
Use Psionic Device (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/usePsionicDevice.htm)

The BoED Sentinel of Bharrai PrC lists "Read/Write Language" as a separate skill to Speak Language. This seems to be an error.

There's also some 3.0 skills that were rolled into other skills or simply don't exist any more:

Alchemy
Animal Empathy
Innuendo
Intuit Direction
Pick Pocket
Read Lips
Scry
Stabilize Self
Wilderness Lore

I believe Ravenloft has some skills unique to that setting (Hypnosis, for example), as does Kingdoms of Kalamar (Stabilize Self) and d20 Cthulhu (Cthulhu Mythos).

[Celestia]

You could always take ranks in Bear Lore (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Bear_Lore_(3.5e_Variant_Rule)).

[Thurbane]

Yeah, bound to be some weird and wonderful skills over at D&D Wiki! :smalltongue:

[weckar]

For a particular game, we split up UMD into arcane and divine, though they provided synergy bonuses.
You can also use it to jot down all those different knowledge(local)s if you play that in a way it makes sense :D

[Troacctid]

I ran a RuneScape game once that had Cooking, Farming, Fishing, Herblore, Hunting, Mining, Smithing, and Woodcutting.

[Celestia]

I ran a RuneScape game once that had Cooking, Farming, Fishing, Herblore, Hunting, Mining, Smithing, and Woodcutting.
Those are all just Professions, though. Well, herblore is Knowledge (Nature), but the rest are just Profession (X).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Those are all just Professions, though. Well, herblore is Knowledge (Nature), but the rest are just Profession (X).I figured Herblore would be Perform: Duuuuude followed by Knowledge: Munchies, myself.

[Celestia]

I figured Herblore would be Perform: Duuuuude followed by Knowledge: Munchies, myself.
You make an excellent point, and I can find no flaws in your logic.

[Eldan]

Or as a more serious answer, Profession: herbalist, which even pops up a few times. I think there might be prestige class requirements.

[Troacctid]

Those are all just Professions, though. Well, herblore is Knowledge (Nature), but the rest are just Profession (X).
Well, sure, just like Heal is just Profession (doctor), Forgery is Profession (forgery artist), Sleight of Hand is Profession (pickpocket), Diplomacy is Profession (diplomat), Open Lock is Profession (burglar), Handle Animal is Profession (animal trainer)...Profession is kinda overly broad that way.

[martixy]

Fly... obviously.

That makes it 3/5 movement modes to skills. Not sure if walking could be qualified as a skill, but maybe burrowing?

Skill tricks are an obvious thing you put in there, even if they're not technically new skills.

If we're talking 3.5 paradigm, I'd do Scent(as someone already mentioned) and Tremorsense, but I personally have moved on to PF's paradigm of skill consolidation into Perception. However I do have DCs based on these abilities for it. Does that count?

While we're on that topic, I've also consolidated Martial Lore and Iaijutsu Focus.

Anything not obvious. Let's see, uuuhhhh...
I've been toying with an idea of making planar travel in my game work similar to how it works in the Chronicles of Amber books, which would introduce a new skill called "Planeswalking" into the mix. Misc note: This concept isn't actually as out-of-left-field for D&D as it seems. There is "canon" for this in the books(well, book) - Manual of the Planes features this passage for Pandemonium:
Harmonica: Legend tells of a site in Cocytus called Harmonica. In this place, the winds whip through a cavern with holes and tubes chiseled into gargantuan rock columns, creating a noise worse than anywhere else in the plane. Somewhere within this mazelike realm of tortured cacophony lies the true secret of planewalking: the art of traveling the planes without a portal, spell, or device of any kind. In all likelihood, this secret is a legend with no basis in fact, but that doesn’t stop the occasional seeker from finding, then dying among, the columns of Harmonica.

Another new one I've toyed with is "Shapeshifting". Technically a new skill, which would have "Control Shape" rolled into it(rather than the other way around). But its primary purpose would be allowing the full versatility of Polymorph, which acting as a balance point over the unrestricted nature of that line of spells. So whenever you want to polymorph into something obscure or powerful, you'd be making a shapeshifting check to see if you are successful and how much. For example, the new form's Caster Level would be tied to that check, and certain abilities like regeneration, certain attributes like size changes, etc.

[Goaty14]

Craft (Underwater Basket Weaving) :smallbiggrin:


Or as a more serious answer, Profession: herbalist, which even pops up a few times. I think there might be prestige class requirements.

Masters of the Wild brings it up for druid infusions.

[weckar]

Well, sure, just like Heal is just Profession (doctor), Forgery is Profession (forgery artist), Sleight of Hand is Profession (pickpocket), Diplomacy is Profession (diplomat), Open Lock is Profession (burglar), Handle Animal is Profession (animal trainer)...Profession is kinda overly broad that way.
Plus, the way a skill is presented has a psychological and immersive effect. Good on you, great idea.
Now, excuse me while I go gather a couple Ks of divine energy for the next several hours...

[Thurbane]

Craft, Perform and Profession have many, many sub-skills.

Knowledge also has extra sub-skills: Oriental Adventures and Sword and Fist had a bunch of extra Knowledge skills (Barbarian Lore, Code of Martial Honor, Law, Shadowlands, Spirits, War, Weaponry etc.).

[ExLibrisMortis]

There's Knowledge (gemology) required by the Crystal Master (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625d). Pretty silly, considering that it's a skill that's never mentioned anywhere else, meaning it's basically without uses, and the class already requires Craft (gemcutting) (two totally different skills there!).

[weckar]

There's Knowledge (gemology) required by the Crystal Master (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625d). Pretty silly, considering that it's a skill that's never mentioned anywhere else, meaning it's basically without uses, and the class already requires Craft (gemcutting) (two totally different skills there!).

I never knew of this class... It is actually kinda neat. Thanks!

[Deophaun]

Also not exactly what you're looking for but I have used those extra slots to list modifiers for narrow usages of a skill (such as Survival: Underground) when I start getting those little annoyingly specific modifiers that I constantly forget to include.

[Luccan]

Im not sure how I would feel about a Fly skill. Very niche for PCs (at least for noncasters or lower level casters) and we already have flight rules. I can see how a Fly check might let you overcome some restrictions, like flying against strong winds, but that would only make sense for particularly strong creatures or those aided by magic. Which makes it niche even for monsters.

I guess the question when adding skills is whether or not they're too niche. Someone mentioned a skill for starting fires, but that seems unnecessary for most games (though potentially a good idea for a survival game). IMO, 3.5 has too many skills already, compared to how many skill points most characters get. Why is Spellcraft not a Knowledge (Arcana) check, for instance? I can't think of many characters I've seen that don't have both Hide and Move Silently, Open Lock and Disable Device, or Listen and Spot. So when adding yet more skills, I think it's important to consider whether or not it's actually useful to PC's to put yet another ability behind a skill point cost. Martial Lore is an existing example: even if you're allowing ToB, if you aren't planning to focus on those classes as foes, it's best to warn your players against investing in it.

[ngilop]

I created Alchohol Tolerance (Con) which is what it says on the tin.

Knowledge: Tactics (Int) turned out to be a cross between Dark Knowledge of the Archivist and Martial Lore.

There is one more, but for the life of me I cannot remember it off the top of my head.

[martixy]

Im not sure how I would feel about a Fly skill. Very niche for PCs (at least for noncasters or lower level casters) and we already have flight rules. I can see how a Fly check might let you overcome some restrictions, like flying against strong winds, but that would only make sense for particularly strong creatures or those aided by magic. Which makes it niche even for monsters.

It already exists in pathfinder and allows one to improve the associated maneuvers without splatdiving for obscure items that improve maneuverability.

Also, 2 of the 3 PCs in my game have natural fly speed, so don't know what you're talking about... :biggrin:

[Fizban]

Im not sure how I would feel about a Fly skill. Very niche for PCs (at least for noncasters or lower level casters) and we already have flight rules. I can see how a Fly check might let you overcome some restrictions, like flying against strong winds, but that would only make sense for particularly strong creatures or those aided by magic. Which makes it niche even for monsters.
Personally I think the only reason climb and swim speeds even involve the climb and swim skills is because climb and swim are already skills. Climb and swim are skills because they're things humanoid PCs can learn to do even without having specialized appendages. Since the rules for obstacles are designed for PCs rather than monsters, there are rules for overcoming particularly difficult climbing and swimming obstacles already in the terrestrial humanoid climb and swim skills, and the easiest way to link creatures with natural speeds for those modes to the existing rules is to just give them a fat racial bonus that lets them overcome most of them automatically.

Flight on the other hand is not something a standard terrestrial humanoid PC will ever do without magic, the effects of wind already use fort saves, and aerial maneuvers already have detailed movement rules, so making a flight skill makes no sense. Even if you decide that tight aerial maneuvering should require skill, where is that coming from? You don't have to roll swim to move in three dimensions, you don't have to roll climb to change direction, why would you have to roll fly to do those? That leaves overcoming obstacles, which for flight is wind and that's it. Adding on a whole new skill just so you can make flying through high winds the same as swimming through rough waters or climbing extra slippery slopes makes no sense- you're making things more complicated just to force symmetry with what was already a kludged system.

The only reason to make up a flight skill is as a replacement for the aerial maneuverability rules- at which point the cost of increasing maneuverability falls from a feat to mere skill points or magic bonuses.


As for the OP, well I've seen at least one, two (three?) magical homebrew skills that weren't linked to a spellcasting class like Truenaming. Can't say I've seen any of them in use though, and any of the "new skills" I have in mind are just sub-dividing existing skills (Spellcraft, Knowledge, an alternate craft system that uses both Craft and Profession, etc). It's pretty hard to make a new skill that isn't just a re-package of an old skill, 'cause there's already almost every generic skill you could think of- unless you're linking your new skill as an activation method for something completely different. Wheel of Time d20 has a Composure skill for example, that lets you emulate things they do in the books like ignoring heat and cold, and of course every steampunk book has some sort of "craft technological device" system bolted onto a craft skill.

[StreamOfTheSky]

What about assigning new uses to an existing skill?

I feel like there's a definite lack of a skill to handle things like identifying a martial feat being used (like a tactic of a tactical feat, who is the dodge buddy...which may be important knowledge for something like Elusive Target, or something like Backstab where the creature w/ the feat gets an AoO if a foe he flanks attacks someone else). Or in some cases recognizing a martial class feature, like a Knight's Bulwark of Defense. Or recognizing a foe is readying an action, and figuring out what action it is and the triggering condition, etc...
I roll that stuff into Martial Lore. Seemed like the best fit. Players kept wanting to know "how did the enemy do that?!" / "what did he just do?"
I never gave it firm rules. A lot of stuff is varying static DCs. Some might be based on the foe's BAB.

[martixy]

Personally I think the only reason climb and swim speeds even involve the climb and swim skills is because climb and swim are already skills. Climb and swim are skills because they're things humanoid PCs can learn to do even without having specialized appendages. Since the rules for obstacles are designed for PCs rather than monsters, there are rules for overcoming particularly difficult climbing and swimming obstacles already in the terrestrial humanoid climb and swim skills, and the easiest way to link creatures with natural speeds for those modes to the existing rules is to just give them a fat racial bonus that lets them overcome most of them automatically.

Flight on the other hand is not something a standard terrestrial humanoid PC will ever do without magic, the effects of wind already use fort saves, and aerial maneuvers already have detailed movement rules, so making a flight skill makes no sense. Even if you decide that tight aerial maneuvering should require skill, where is that coming from? You don't have to roll swim to move in three dimensions, you don't have to roll climb to change direction, why would you have to roll fly to do those? That leaves overcoming obstacles, which for flight is wind and that's it. Adding on a whole new skill just so you can make flying through high winds the same as swimming through rough waters or climbing extra slippery slopes makes no sense- you're making things more complicated just to force symmetry with what was already a kludged system.

I agree, to some extent.

It seems to me there is some parity between what is modelled by various DCs for swim and climb and what is modelled by difficult terrain for land movement. Maybe one could nix Swim/Climb and just use difficult terrain rules.
Conversely(and perhaps perversely) one could make a "walking" skill and nix the idea of difficult terrain. Though I see a lot of overlap with balance here.


The only reason to make up a flight skill is as a replacement for the aerial maneuverability rules- at which point the cost of increasing maneuverability falls from a feat to mere skill points or magic bonuses.
Exactly what I use it for.

Though as someone who runs a distinctly monster-heavy campaign, there is something to be said about equal treatment of all movement modes. I have 2 PCs with natural swim speed and 2 PCs with natural Fly speed.



As for the OP, well I've seen at least one, two (three?) magical homebrew skills that weren't linked to a spellcasting class like Truenaming. Can't say I've seen any of them in use though, and any of the "new skills" I have in mind are just sub-dividing existing skills (Spellcraft, Knowledge, an alternate craft system that uses both Craft and Profession, etc). It's pretty hard to make a new skill that isn't just a re-package of an old skill, 'cause there's already almost every generic skill you could think of- unless you're linking your new skill as an activation method for something completely different. Wheel of Time d20 has a Composure skill for example, that lets you emulate things they do in the books like ignoring heat and cold, and of course every steampunk book has some sort of "craft technological device" system bolted onto a craft skill.

Composure is pretty much Autohypnosis so, eh...
It is hard coming up with new skills, because, as you said, most general actions that can be taken are already covered.

Where new skills come in is when you have new mechanical subsystems.

And as I said - Planeswalking as a skill. Before you start looking how to fold it into knowledge: the planes, let me point out knowledge: arcana <-> spellcraft.

[Zaq]

I homebrewed up a Poison (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?337614-Poison-D-amp-D-3-5-Skill-Second-draft) skill a while ago. It probably has some issues that could be worked out with playtesting (most of the actual numbers were based off of gut feelings rather than off of strongly supported calculations, which I’ll cop to up front), but I still think the core concept is mostly solid.

Separately, my group has a long-running semi-joke about “Pack” being a skill, with one making a Pack check to make a quantity of items fit into a limited space more efficiently than the average person can accomplish. We never brewed up hard rules or DCs or anything, though, so I don’t think anyone ever wrote it on their sheet.

Has anyone played with houseruled/homebrewed skill tricks that turned out to be interesting?

[Thurbane]

A Game of Thrones has Knowledge (foreign culture), Knowledge (navigation), Knowledge (stewardship), Knowledge (underworld) and Knowledge (warfare).

Arcana Unearthed has Knowledge (ceremony), Knowledge (cosmology), Knowledge (dangerous beasts), Knowledge (runes), Knowledge (sailing & navigation) and Knowledge (science).

Legends of Excalibur has Prophecy.

Midnight has Knowledge (shadow) and Knowledge (spirits).

Mythic Vistas: Skull & Bones has Knowledge (navigation), Knowledge (sea lore) and Voodoo Rituals.

Sword & Sorcery: Mindscapes has Remote Viewing (seems to be the psionic equivalent to the 3.0 Scry skill).

Thieves Wold Player's Guide has Gamble.

Wheel of Time has Knowledge (blight) and Knowledge (age of legends).

... oh, and another official skill I forgot earlier: Lucid Dreaming (MotP).

[Fizban]

Composure is pretty much Autohypnosis so, eh...
Actually they share zero features. Autohypnosis lets you ignore certain minor wounds, shake off fear and poison (which I'd never really noticed before and is holy crap strong), and perfectly memorize things. Composure lets you keep your cool to boost social checks, ignore distraction from heat and cold, and fall asleep quickly. Similar ideas but completely different executions, as Autohypnosis is chock full of game powers, while Composure just maintains exclusivity for some tricks people can do in the books. Both are just fancier expressions of Concentration.

And as I said - Planeswalking as a skill. Before you start looking how to fold it into knowledge: the planes, let me point out knowledge: arcana <-> spellcraft.
I didn't say anything about your Planeswalking skill, and I said sub-dividing, not folding. I'd split Spellcraft into a minimum of four skills, none of which have anything to do with knowledge (arcana), which could itself be split into actual arcane knowledge and arcane monster knowledge.

[martixy]

Actually they share zero features. Autohypnosis lets you ignore certain minor wounds, shake off fear and poison (which I'd never really noticed before and is holy crap strong), and perfectly memorize things. Composure lets you keep your cool to boost social checks, ignore distraction from heat and cold, and fall asleep quickly. Similar ideas but completely different executions, as Autohypnosis is chock full of game powers, while Composure just maintains exclusivity for some tricks people can do in the books. Both are just fancier expressions of Concentration.

Been playing it like it did everything in Composure for ages and forgot to check what it does only per SRD. Could have sworn about the hot-cold tolerance, but I suppose not. But yes, concentration is the logical umbrella skill.


I didn't say anything about your Planeswalking skill, and I said sub-dividing, not folding. I'd split Spellcraft into a minimum of four skills, none of which have anything to do with knowledge (arcana), which could itself be split into actual arcane knowledge and arcane monster knowledge.

Oh, sorry, I was using the "royal you" here, not addressing you. Wanted to point out parity between Kn.Arcane and Spellcraft inb4 someone tried to fold Planeswalking into its most logical target.

[Thurbane]

I believe Ravenloft has some skills unique to that setting (Hypnosis, for example), as does Kingdoms of Kalamar (Stabilize Self) and d20 Cthulhu (Cthulhu Mythos).

Just discovered that Stabilize Self was an old 3.0 skill (Psionics Handbook), that was later rolled into Autohypnosis.

[heavyfuel]

Really, this was about skills not present in ANY (D&D) source, not about skills not present in the 3.5 Player's Handbook.

Handle Humanoid & Lucid Dreaming are cool and all, but they are official skills.

I'm talking about truly new stuff, like:


'Door Kickin'

Warcraft.

Pyrology

Bear Lore

Cooking, Farming, Fishing, Herblore, Hunting, Mining, Smithing, and Woodcutting

Alchohol Tolerance (Con)

Poison [...] “Pack”

Prophecy [...] and Voodoo Rituals.

"Planeswalking" [...] "Shapeshifting"

Composure

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Well, there's always Perform (Sexual Technique)...

[martixy]

Really, this was about skills not present in ANY (D&D) source, not about skills not present in the 3.5 Player's Handbook.

Handle Humanoid & Lucid Dreaming are cool and all, but they are official skills.

I'm talking about truly new stuff, like:

Fizban originally suggested "Composure".

And you missed the 2 skills I proposed here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?570726-Skills-not-present-in-any-books#post_23416475):
Planeswalking and Shapeshifting

[Mordaedil]

I used it to track my characters leadership score at some point.

[Thurbane]

How about Luck as a skill?

[Zaq]

How about Luck as a skill?

I like the general idea, but I shudder to think of how it would be possible to make hard, consistent, and satisfying written rules for a “Luck” skill without either making it fairly trivial or turning it into The God Skill.

Unrelated, but I recall seeing homebrew many years ago that turned initiative into a skill, which is something of an interesting idea. Opens up some other problems, but it allows for interesting class-related scaling (classes with it as a skill straight up have a better chance at going first, assuming that you pay for the points).

[Eldan]

I once got pretty far on a rewrite that made base attack bonus a skill. By weapon group. Of course, then, everyone just got a ton of skill points per level.

[heavyfuel]

Fizban originally suggested "Composure".

And you missed the 2 skills I proposed here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?570726-Skills-not-present-in-any-books#post_23416475):
Planeswalking and Shapeshifting

Sorry about missing them. I was just skimming the posts for the skills to quote and so I was bound to miss some.


How about Luck as a skill?

I could see that as interesting, but I wonder how exactly it would work. I think I prefer the idea of Luck as feats as they already appear in 3.5, though the feats should be significantly buffed

[Luccan]

Sorry about missing them. I was just skimming the posts for the skills to quote and so I was bound to miss some.



I could see that as interesting, but I wonder how exactly it would work. I think I prefer the idea of Luck as feats as they already appear in 3.5, though the feats should be significantly buffed

So, obviously it influences games involving chance. Not the whole game if it were like poker, which would also require a good bit of Bluff and Sense Motive, but it would influence what hand you get. It also can't be tied to any stat. What about... whenever the DM roles on a random table, you can increase or decrease the result by 5 if you roll above a certain threshold? So loot tables, you have a chance of influencing for better gear and for random encounters (assuming it's laid out in a strongest to weakest pattern) you can potentially lower the challenge if your party is in a tight spot.

[Malphegor]

My character has Knowledge: Legal (Southern) noted down as a base Int skill, no ranks in it. Mainly because his backstory has his father be a human Consul, the equivalent to a lawyer in the DM’s world. (originally I was going to play a character who was basically a Devil/Phoenix Wright fusion, but somewhere down the line I’ve been turning into a classic ‘wizard is being corrupted by infinite cosmic powaaa’ thing)

Lil’ Tiefling Malphegor learnt lawyerin’ off his poppa, but then he learnt he was magic and ran off to learn that.

Presumably it’d have to be a trained skill to actually use it.


Well, there's always Perform (Sexual Technique)...

II feel you could just label all sexual stuff as Erotic Arts, then leave it up to the player what attribute it works off of for their character, as that activity works differently for different characters.

(And because I imagine Bards to be really disappointing once you get down to it)

[Thurbane]

So, obviously it influences games involving chance. Not the whole game if it were like poker, which would also require a good bit of Bluff and Sense Motive, but it would influence what hand you get. It also can't be tied to any stat. What about... whenever the DM roles on a random table, you can increase or decrease the result by 5 if you roll above a certain threshold? So loot tables, you have a chance of influencing for better gear and for random encounters (assuming it's laid out in a strongest to weakest pattern) you can potentially lower the challenge if your party is in a tight spot.

Yeah, I think Luck could definitely be a viable skill, but would definitely require careful wording and adjudication.

As heavyfuel says, you'd have to be cautious to let it not become very overpowered, or useless on the other end of the spectrum.

Maybe it could be treated like some of the maneuvers in the ToB, where once/encounter it could substitute for some other roll?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Luck could be as simple as +1 action point or +1 reroll every time you put a rank in (similar to Speak Language, it doesn't allow you to make checks). Maybe with a recharge condition (based on time, levelling up, story events, and so on).

[rferries]

Maybe even "Gambling" - a luck skill used only for opposed skill checks in games of chance.

[Thurbane]

Maybe even "Gambling" - a luck skill used only for opposed skill checks in games of chance.

The d20 Thieves World Player's Guide has Gambling as a skill.


GAMBLE (WIS)

Use this skill to win money in a game that involves both skill and luck. Sanctans play a wide variety of such games, usually using cards or dice, although domino and tile games are also popular. Games involving only luck (such as tossing a coin) or skill (gladiatorial combat) don’t involve Gamble checks.

Check: To join or start a game, a character must first pay a stake. The character sets the stake if she starts the game, while the GM sets it if the character joins a game. The other participants also pay a stake, which may be equal to the player’s stake or a different amount, depending on the rules of the game. The character’s Gamble check is opposed by the Gamble checks of all other participants in the game. If there are many NPCs participating, the GM can opt to make a single roll for all of them, using the highest Gamble skill modifier among them and adding a +2 bonus on the check.

If the character beats all other participants, she wins and claims all the stakes in the game. Otherwise, the gambler with the highest check result claims the prize pool.



Cheating: A skilled character can attempt to cheat while gambling to improve her chances. To cheat, a character must make a Bluff check as a free action before making her Gamble check. This Bluff check is opposed by the Sense Motive checks of the other gamblers. If the Bluff check succeeds, the character gains a +2 circumstance bonus on her Gamble check. If the Bluff check fails, the attempt to cheat did not gain the character any benefit; if the Bluff check fails by 5 or more against any opposing Sense Motive check, that gambler spots the character’s cheating and reacts accordingly.


Action: A Gamble check requires anywhere from a few minutes to an hour, depending on the game being played.

Try Again: No, unless the character wants to put up another stake.

Special: A character can’t take 10 or take 20 when making a Gamble check.

[Zaq]

Maybe even "Gambling" - a luck skill used only for opposed skill checks in games of chance.

I don’t see why this needs to be separate from Profession (Gambler), which already exists and has mechanics.

[Luccan]

I don’t see why this needs to be separate from Profession (Gambler), which already exists and has mechanics.

To be fair, D20 Modern also had a Gamble skill, though in retrospect any gambling focused skill seems so narrow and specific as to be useless in most games.

[Thurbane]

The Player's Guide to Blackmoor (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/51493/The-Players-Guide-to-Blackmoor) adds several new skills (to the point where you'll never have enough skill points, if you want to incorporate them):


Investigation
Navigate
Rare Languages
Research
Secret Languages
Smell
Taste
Touch

[Luccan]

The Player's Guide to Blackmoor (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/51493/The-Players-Guide-to-Blackmoor) adds several new skills (to the point where you'll never have enough skill points, if you want to incorporate them):


Investigation
Navigate
Rare Languages
Research
Secret Languages
Smell
Taste
Touch



So, I get the extra sense skills (though they're kind of excessive) and I can understand Investigate, Navigate, and Research to some degree (though these all seem to geared toward ignoring sections of the game, rather than enhancing them or in the case of Navigate are already covered). But why are there extra language skills?

[Thurbane]

So, I get the extra sense skills (though they're kind of excessive) and I can understand Investigate, Navigate, and Research to some degree (though these all seem to geared toward ignoring sections of the game, rather than enhancing them or in the case of Navigate are already covered). But why are there extra language skills?

They seem to be for Blackmoor specific languages that you can't pick up through normal methods.

Somewhat annoying and over complicated, if you ask me.

[Luccan]

They seem to be for Blackmoor specific languages that you can't pick up through normal methods.

Somewhat annoying and over complicated, if you ask me.

Yeah, considering you can just say that when a character takes Speak Language they need to have actually been studying it. If it's secret, presumably they haven't been studying it

[Jack_Simth]

Luck could be as simple as +1 action point or +1 reroll every time you put a rank in (similar to Speak Language, it doesn't allow you to make checks). Maybe with a recharge condition (based on time, levelling up, story events, and so on).

Luck(Cha, trained only)

When rolling a d20, you can roll a luck check (DC 15 + 5×the number of checks you have attempted today) to roll twice and take the better result. Failure means you roll twice and take the worse result.

[rferries]

Luck(Cha, trained only)

When rolling a d20, you can roll a luck check (DC 15 + 5×the number of checks you have attempted today) to roll twice and take the better result. Failure means you roll twice and take the worse result.

Nice! It's silly to be be able to train in "luck", but if you did this would be a great way to handle it.

[Thurbane]

Luck(Cha, trained only)

When rolling a d20, you can roll a luck check (DC 15 + 5×the number of checks you have attempted today) to roll twice and take the better result. Failure means you roll twice and take the worse result.

I like it. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/images/sand/icons/icon_thumbsup.png

[Jack_Simth]

Nice! It's silly to be be able to train in "luck", but if you did this would be a great way to handle it.

Is it any different from the luck feats in that regard?

The real question is: Does it properly sit at the intersection of "not too strong" and "not too weak"?

[NichG]

I picked up Craft(Soul) in a very high-end game at one point when playing a former deity, supported by a combination of type of homebrew magic in that campaign that allowed fine manipulation of spirits of all types, and an ability tied to a divinely morphic demiplane to be able to directly use XP to create things that could be imagined while there. This led to stuff like creating spiritual servitors, modifying certain kinds of undead in-place (so you're a Shadow but you'd rather be a Wraith? Let's see what we can do about that), designer personalities for magic items, analyzing the person who provided the XP for an item from their residual spiritual signature, being able to give away bits of my XP to other people to empower them (and at the high end, being able to place things like recurring dreams or gaesa into the gift), allowing accelerated retraining of levels and feats and such, etc.

In a sort of pseudo-E6 campaign I ran, one character was specialized into a kind of racial innate shapeshifting, and ended up with a Metamorphosis skill representing their ability to push the boundaries of their shapeshifting power - for example, crossing some thresholds allowed them to shift into inorganic entities (with material availability based on a chart of DCs), distributed entities such as swarms, incorporeal entities, etc.

[rferries]

Is it any different from the luck feats in that regard?

The real question is: Does it properly sit at the intersection of "not too strong" and "not too weak"?

A feat can be almost anything - something you trained at or did, but also something that happened to you, something about your biology, etc (e.g. background feats, racial feats, monster feats...). A skill is generally just something you've practiced at, at least IMHO.

[Jack_Simth]

A feat can be almost anything - something you trained at or did, but also something that happened to you, something about your biology, etc (e.g. background feats, racial feats, monster feats...). A skill is generally just something you've practiced at, at least IMHO.
That's just how you manage fluff. You take a moment to say a quick prayer to a deity of luck, and sometimes get a response... not always good, mind....

[jdizzlean]

we had a player once use butt(a**) oiling as a skill for his barbarian, because barbarians don't need no skills.

he only wore a bunny loincloth

it was funny, but not functional in anyway


otherwise, as stated a bajillion sub categories of knowledge/craft/profession is the most likely.

in our games, we eliminate spot/listen and combine them into a simple "notice" check, so there's a house-ruled skill option as well