How again am I supposed to remove a wizard from Rope Trick?

[aviary]

So this cheeky wizard nabbed the boss's expensive enchanted necklace, and me and my boys got him cornered in his inn room. Problem is, he's hiding up in his rope trick and he's pulled up the rope. Our street mage tells us she can't just dispel it 'cause the magic's on the rope, which is now gods-know-where. We thought about waiting for the spell to end, but the watch's on their way and I doubt they'd be sympathetic to our style of "justice".

We need help, and fast. What's the cheapest spell scroll our mage can buy to pull this damned wizard from his rabbit hole?

OK, so I'm really asking two questions here: 1) is rope trick a valid dispel target once the rope is pulled up, and 2) assuming it's not, what's the next cheapest way to force the rope tricker out?

[Nifft]

Pull a bunch of dead people and stolen goods out of your bag of incriminating evidence and leave them strewn around the Wizard's room.

Then leave, and let the Watch have their way with him.

[MeimuHakurei]

Fill the room with acid or a similar unpleasant substance - then you just wait until the spell runs out.

[daremetoidareyo]

Glyph(s) of warding(s) in the room?

Just post up guards with readied attack options?

Throw a portable hole up and through?

Rogue uses disable device on rope trick hole?

Litter the room with traps and noxious gas and leave?

Area dispel?

Planar bind an outsider to do any of the above?

Destroy every thing below the rope trick and let him fall...eventually?

Split up, send least combat capable person to hire healings to handle the rest of this standoff with a 50gp bonus if they bring his head to you?

[DeTess]

Remember that the rope trick area has a window the wizard can look out of which is merely invisible. It can be spotted, and if you're doing a stand-off, it might be wise to block it. I'd personally rule that the window is also a valid target for the dispel magic spell, as it's part of the result of the rope trick, but that's not really supported by RAW, I think.

[aviary]

Pull a bunch of dead people and stolen goods out of your bag of incriminating evidence and leave them strewn around the Wizard's room.

Then leave, and let the Watch have their way with him.

I like this solution! But the problem is then the watch'll have the boss's necklace, and not us. That could be an issue, since our boss can't exactly show up to collect at the nearest garrison.


Fill the room with acid or a similar unpleasant substance - then you just wait until the spell runs out.

No doubt the watch's mages'll clean things up when they get here, and our feisty wizard can just walk away.


Glyph(s) of warding(s) in the room?

Just post up guards with readied attack options?

Litter the room with traps and noxious gas and leave?

Destroy every thing below the rope trick and let him fall...eventually?

Split up, send least combat capable person to hire healings to handle the rest of this standoff with a 50gp bonus if they bring his head to you?

None of this will work, unfortunately, for the reason of arriving guards. See above.


Throw a portable hole up and through?

This is interesting. I'll have to consider it, and it's certainly cheaper than casting a wish. Abusing the clauses about nesting extraplanar spaces seems like a good way to go.


Rogue uses disable device on rope trick hole?

Is this a thing?


Area dispel?

The rope's not on this plane and thus not subject to area dispel, says our street mage.


Planar bind an outsider to do any of the above?

Outsourcing, eh?


Remember that the rope trick area has a window the wizard can look out of which is merely invisible. It can be spotted, and if you're doing a stand-off, it might be wise to block it. I'd personally rule that the window is also a valid target for the dispel magic spell, as it's part of the result of the rope trick, but that's not really supported by RAW, I think.

Therein lies our conundrum. Our street mage hates violating RAW. We can consider this a last-resort solution, like buying a wish.

[DeTess]

Therein lies our conundrum. Our street mage hates violating RAW.

AFAIK, it's also not directly contradicted by RAW. Unless the mage is really short on spell slots, he should just try it and see how the DM rules?

Edit: also, I assume you don't have access to the gate spell?

[aviary]

Edit: also, I assume you don't have access to the gate spell?

We absolutely do! It's just terrifically expensive and we like to minimize costs. This belongs in the pile of last-resort solutions.

[daremetoidareyo]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?520223-Saboteur-s-Cookbook-Masterwork-Disable-Device-tools#post_21875860

You can disable magic runes, a nuclear reactor that is leaking, and a number of other magical things. It's just a matter of making an attempt and seeing how the DM reacts. There is no penalty for failing this particular use of the disable device skill.

The DC is 40 for the nuclear reactor thing and you need the relevant knowledge skill. So there is an argument that if your Rogue with the Trap finding ability has a few ranks in spellcraft or knowledge Arcana, they may be able to with permission of the DM

[aviary]

To be clear, I'm the DM in question. I'm happy to make QoL rulings in favor of the players, e.g. the solutions mentioned above, but in practice the reason I'm asking this question is because I'm interested in what immediate, RAW solutions are available to players with system mastery.

I'm thinking I'd rule no on dispelling the rope trick since it's: 1) cast on the rope, and 2) the rope is on another plane (when pulled up). The window can't be seen through, so it's hard to imagine how a caster would use it to hit the rope on another plane.

I don't know how I feel about using Disable Device. I'll read up on that link to see what precedents there are.

The closest solution I can see right now is the nested dimensions trick, i.e.


Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one.

though no details are given as to what happens if I create the describe hazards above.

[tyckspoon]

The Transdimensional Spell metamagic will let you throw all sorts of potentially fun effects into the Rope Trick; it's kind of a niche effect, so might be hard to explain acquiring in-universe, but a Transdimensional (Greater) Dispel Magic would definitely let you try to dispel the 'active' side of the Rope Trick.

On the off-chance they exist in your world, a 10th-level Silver Key (Eberron prestige class) can go through any kind of magical portal. Bit of an overkill approach, but hey, if Gate is potentially on the table..

[noob]

This is interesting. I'll have to consider it, and it's certainly cheaper than casting a wish. Abusing the clauses about nesting extraplanar spaces seems like a good way to go.

Those clauses are specific to the interaction between portable holes and bottomless bags but all the other extraplanar space can nest within each other in all impunity.
However if you know where the exit of the rope trick is(hard to guess since it could possibly leave no magical aura at the outside) then you can put a bottomless bag within a portable hole close to the entry of the rope trick to definitively destroy the section of reality containing the entry of the rope trick (which will give no problem to the wizard other that he will need to start the morning by casting plane shift in order to not go in a place of non reality)
But it might be more expensive than a scroll of wish(also maybe it could anger a god of spacetime or something like that).

But however a way simpler way is to use transdimensional spell to cast any aoe damage over time spell you want where the rope trick is and thus start damaging people in the rope trick

[daremetoidareyo]

The closest solution I can see right now is the nested dimensions trick, i.e.



though no details are given as to what happens if I create the describe hazards above.

There are 2nd and 3rd level spells available to bards that can are incompatible with other dimensions. portal well from champs of valor p.56, shadow cache from spell compendium p.183. So a cheap wand/scroll is an option, i suppose.

Other portal hijinx available on this monstrosity: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197409&postcount=109

scramble portal and possibly seal portal may be relevant. it depends on if non-dimensional space is considered extra dimensional...

[aviary]

The Transdimensional Spell metamagic will let you throw all sorts of potentially fun effects into the Rope Trick; it's kind of a niche effect, so might be hard to explain acquiring in-universe, but a Transdimensional (Greater) Dispel Magic would definitely let you try to dispel the 'active' side of the Rope Trick.

This is a good solution! So this works, and is a great deal cheaper than the next best solutions. I don't suppose scrolls can be made of metamagic'd spells? Since the average wizard wouldn't be walking around with this particular one prepared.


Those clauses are specific to the interaction between portable holes and bottomless bags but all the other extraplanar space can nest within each other in all impunity.
However if you know where the exit of the rope trick is(hard to guess since it could possibly leave no magical aura at the outside) then you can put a bottomless bag within a portable hole close to the entry of the rope trick to definitively destroy the section of reality containing the entry of the rope trick (which will give no problem to the wizard other that he will need to start the morning by casting plane shift in order to not go in a place of non reality)
But it might be more expensive than a scroll of wish(also maybe it could anger a god of spacetime or something like that).

Thanks for the clarification. I'll look into this solution, it's a very engineered one and I love it. A point: the window is invisible but at the location of the rope trick, IIRC. So it can be pinpointed exactly with see invis.


There are 2nd and 3rd level spells available to bards that can are incompatible with other dimensions. portal well from champs of valor p.56, shadow cache from spell compendium p.183. So a cheap wand/scroll is an option, i suppose.

scramble portal and possibly seal portal may be relevant. it depends on if non-dimensional space is considered extra dimensional...

These are some great links, by the way. Thanks for posting them.

[Segev]

If you know where the window to his little demiplane is, invite some of your best kobold friends to have fun making traps geared towards triggering when people leave through said window. Bonus points if their from Clan Tucker.

[noob]

If you know where the window to his little demiplane is, invite some of your best kobold friends to have fun making traps geared towards triggering when people leave through said window. Bonus points if their from Clan Tucker.

Does not works against wizards that planeshift out of their rope trick every morning by fear of discovering the entry of their rope trick leads to a space of non space.
However I have the feeling the creator of the thread have a wizard that is insufficiently paranoid in all the ways ever possible.
1: a wizard that is paranoid enough will make its rope trick in a place nobody suspects so especially not a room.
2: a sufficiently paranoid wizard have his mundane carry a sphere of metal wide enough for protecting one mundane and one wizard behind thus allowing to potentially roll around unharmed by the traps unless the traps are stupidly gigantic in which case making them in one night is not possible with raw rules unless using fabricate or skill sheanighans.
3: a sufficiently paranoid wizard would have trapped the place before you could do it
4: the sufficiently paranoid wizard anyway did not exit the rope trick by the exit: that wizard use alternate means.
5: the needed amount of paranoia for surviving a day in dnd is so high that people hardly can imagine it.

[tyckspoon]

This is a good solution! So this works, and is a great deal cheaper than the next best solutions. I don't suppose scrolls can be made of metamagic'd spells? Since the average wizard wouldn't be walking around with this particular one prepared.


I'd have to do a little running to find the exact reference, but yes, you can - you just include the modified spell level into the cost formula. Transdimensional is a +1 metamagic, so a scroll of Transdimensional Dispel Magic would be priced as if it were a 4th level spell (don't forget to pay extra for the increased caster level, since you want to be as sure as you can that you succeed on the dispel.) You could also potentially duplicate it with a Limited Wish or Miracle, which should be notably cheaper to acquire than a full Wish due to the reduced/no XP cost for those spells.

[noob]

I'd have to do a little running to find the exact reference, but yes, you can - you just include the modified spell level into the cost formula. Transdimensional is a +1 metamagic, so a scroll of Transdimensional Dispel Magic would be priced as if it were a 4th level spell (don't forget to pay extra for the increased caster level, since you want to be as sure as you can that you succeed on the dispel.) You could also potentially duplicate it with a Limited Wish or Miracle, which should be notably cheaper to acquire than a full Wish due to the reduced/no XP cost for those spells.
limited wish can copy spells but I have not heard that limited wish could copy metamagics on the spells.
or else since metamagics only raise the level of the spell for slot purposes(and not for any other purpose unless it is heighten spell) each time you would cast limited wish to Copy a spell you would be able to copy that spell with all the metamagics that does not increase the real spell level(there is only three metamagics that do that: earth spell, heighten spell and sanctum spell) and you would also be able to copy spells one level above the one of limited wish provided you are neither in your sanctum nor touching ground.
So basically allowing limited wish to copy spells with metamagics opens megatons of abuse that is entirely raw.

[liquidformat]

I believe disable device is a reasonable solution, maybe just have the caveat that they must succeed on a knowledge (arcana) or spellcraft check to properly identify where and how to disable it.

With respect to bag of holding + portable hole trick I thought there was RAW rules on what happens somewhere but I can't remember and it isn't in the SRDs. I vaguely think it was equivalent of disintegrate being cast on everything in a 20' radius including what was in the hole/bag....

[noob]

I believe disable device is a reasonable solution, maybe just have the caveat that they must succeed on a knowledge (arcana) or spellcraft check to properly identify where and how to disable it.

With respect to bag of holding + portable hole trick I thought there was RAW rules on what happens somewhere but I can't remember and it isn't in the SRDs. I vaguely think it was equivalent of disintegrate being cast on everything in a 20' radius including what was in the hole/bag....

it was even better than disintegration.

[Elkad]

Boobytrap ceiling so it is supported solely by the invisible window.
When they attempt to exit (probably prebuffed and expecting to fight your army of disposable kobolds you have in the room), dispel the window and let the ceiling collapse on them.

Get a really large bag of holding. Put the whole room in it. When players exit, the kobolds puncture the bag.

Fill room full of lava, acid, or similar.

Get a regular bag of holding or portable hole. Stretch it over the window repeatedly until something "hazardous" happens.

[noob]

Boobytrap ceiling so it is supported solely by the invisible window.
When they attempt to exit (probably prebuffed and expecting to fight your army of disposable kobolds you have in the room), dispel the window and let the ceiling collapse on them.

Get a really large bag of holding. Put the whole room in it. When players exit, the kobolds puncture the bag.

Fill room full of lava, acid, or similar.

Get a regular bag of holding or portable hole. Stretch it over the window repeatedly until something "hazardous" happens.
the last one is not coherent with raw only putting a portable hole in a bag of holding or putting a bag of holding in a portable hole have special effects and those are very specific and different.
It is not clear the window can support anything and for the ceiling to be supported only by the invisible window either you need magic or something connecting the window to the ceiling and if something connects the ceiling to the window then the people in the rope trick would when checking see the change.
the really large bag of holding you describe is not in the core rules
however filling the room with lava or acid is perfectly legitimate and personally I think that casting rope trick within lava is a good idea.(wait your wizards are not lava sharks?)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Threaten to lock him in his rope trick nigh permanently if he doesn't come out. Promise to leave him alive and (relatively) unharmed if he does so. If he doesn't, hire a clerical type to cast (un)hallow, and attach a dimension lock to it. He'll be stuck for a full year. Now what happens when the rope trick ends but he can't cross back into this dimension? Ya feelin' lucky? Make a Knowledge: The Planes check, punk.

[noob]

Threaten to lock him in his rope trick nigh permanently if he doesn't come out. Promise to leave him alive and (relatively) unharmed if he does so. If he doesn't, hire a clerical type to cast (un)hallow, and attach a dimension lock to it. He'll be stuck for a full year. Now what happens when the rope trick ends but he can't cross back into this dimension? Ya feelin' lucky? Make a Knowledge: The Planes check, punk.
That is not even needed: clerics gets forbiddance(I forgot the exact name) which is like dimensional lock but better and with damage to people of different alignments.
However the town guard might have some rules about place enchantments and maybe you are not allowed to do that without the authorization of the owner of the tavern.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

That is not even needed: clerics gets forbiddance(I forgot the exact name) which is like dimensional lock but better and with damage to people of different alignments.
However the town guard might have some rules about place enchantments and maybe you are not allowed to do that without the authorization of the owner of the tavern.Make it a Selective Spell? It only affects the wizard's castings (including from items). How would anyone else even know?

Of course, now the wizard owes you a favor in return for not leaving him to die wedged between the loose leaf pages of reality. A couple of weeks' worth of free spellcasting services should suffice. Them're expensive, after all.

[noob]

Make it a Selective Spell? It only affects the wizard's castings (including from items). How would anyone else even know?

Of course, now the wizard owes you a favor in return for not leaving him to die wedged between the loose leaf pages of reality. A couple of weeks' worth of free spellcasting services should suffice. Them're expensive, after all.

The town guard detecting the selective spell would not see the difference with their magical detection spells relatively to the normal spell(very few spells allow to check for metamagic)
because the town guard spots magical stuff with magic detection spells not by teleporting randomly.(teleporting randomly would cost insanely fast quickly while having a permanent mage vision or whatever that was named is a one time cost)
But it is true that once the town guard save you then the town can ask for money or services(plot hooks if you are feeling merciful or if you are ready for a total derail of the campaign regular community service such as cleaning official public buildings but the latter ends the campaign world rather quickly as the team will find some kind of ultimate solution to all the problems ever and create lasting world peace) in exchange for the service of disabling the spell trapping you.

[Elkad]

the last one is not coherent with raw only putting a portable hole in a bag of holding or putting a bag of holding in a portable hole have special effects and those are very specific and different.

It's right there in the spell description.

"Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one."

"Hazardous" just isn't defined.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It's right there in the spell description.

"Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one."

"Hazardous" just isn't defined.The only real hazard is the resulting argument as to what, exactly, happens, RAW.

[aviary]

The only real hazard is the resulting argument as to what, exactly, happens, RAW.

I'm really astonished at how often D&D warns/promises mechanical effects, then totally neglects to supply them.

[InvisibleBison]

OK, so I'm really asking two questions here: 1) is rope trick a valid dispel target once the rope is pulled up, and 2) assuming it's not, what's the next cheapest way to force the rope tricker out?

Unless I'm missing something, rope trick doesn't provide any sort door or other barrier on the portal it creates. It's defense lies in its height above the ground - but that doesn't apply in this case, since it's been cast inside. You can find the portal by tossing things about the room until they happen to fly through it, then grab something flammable (bedsheets, perhaps?), light it on fire and toss it into the rope trick.

[daremetoidareyo]

I'm really astonished at how often D&D warns/promises mechanical effects, then totally neglects to supply them.

Well, there is the whole portable hole bag of holding thing that offers a clear hazard: a breach to the astral plane.

But rope trick is a first level spell and can replace the expensive portable hole part of the equation, meaning that players will get instakill buttons for the cost of a bag of holding and a 1st level spell slot.

There is no reason not to put the the portable hole/bag of holding thing on a random hazard table at the top as the maximum hazard. And then fill the rest of the table of similar themed issues lower in intensity across the table. Say, no rerolls allowed:

1-4: every works fine as if that text weren't there.
5-9: rope trick doesn't work for the extradimensional space, and it cannot be forced to enter
10-13: the contents of the extra dimensional space spill into the rope trick
14-16: the contents of the rope trick spill into the extra dimenstional space
17-19: Small rift into astral created, reflex save 15 to avoid being pulled in, extra dimensional spaces involved are irrevocably destroyed
20: bag of holding/portable hole effect.


The problem you are then left with is a 1d20 instakill situation, which you can augment by allowing a save. Then it's a 1d20 save or die. You can augment that further by making it a save or suck: they travel the astral for 1d4 rounds and arrive back in place within 1d4 x5 feet where the rope trick, now dispelled, was.

And so, you've prevented some rope trick abuse, and the craft PC now has a tool that they can use so long as they drop 1200gp on bags of holding to use it.

[Brunks]

Well, you don't have to dispell the rope trick, you just have to convince them that they're better off outside of one. If you can introduce some dangers or attrition damage to the creatures inside the trick they'll drop the spell sooner rather than later. Some sample tactics:

1. Just go in.
Sure the rope is up inside, but if you can find the window and a ladder you can just climb inside. Its a nasty bottleneck, and only a limited number of creatures can go inside. Depends how you like your odds I supose.

2. Blindfire
There's a window, its invisible, and you can't see through it even if it wasn't, but arrows and bolts will pass through just fine. You might be firing blindly at a small target, at odd angles, but if you have enough shots you can wear them down eventually.

3. Fire.
Just light a fire to smoke em out, spells can cross the barrier but mundane gasses should be fine. Easily created by even the lowest ranking thugs. Might also burn the building down, but thats hardly your fault, they made you do it!


4. Alchemical warfare.
Again, spells can't cross the portal but a flask of acid will do fine. Chuck a few dozen in, see how they handle those, should soften em up for option 1 at the very least.

5. Suffocation
Most extradimensional spaces don't come with oxygen included, thats why it has a window. Sealing it of with some airtight and sturdy materials would really put the pressure on the thieves. They might dismiss the rope trick to get out in a panic. Bonus points if you cast invisibillity on the barrier beforehand. They wont even know their oxygen supply has been cut off.

6. Drowning
The mage might as wel pick up a decanter of endless water, the geyser function should fill that space up pretty quick. I doubt all of them can swim. Even if you can't get a tight seal to really fill it all the way up, you might flush a few of them out.

7. Bluff
Some drastic solutions like throwing a bottomless bag through the window might be a bit drastic (and counterproductive if you want to recover anything at all). But the mere threat of it could force them to dismiss their spell. A simple bluff, perhaps aided by some illusions could change the tide of this encounter.

[unseenmage]

Couldn't you just Plane Shift into the space?

[aviary]

Couldn't you just Plane Shift into the space?

Can I? Do I know where I'm plane shifting?

[Jack_Simth]

Oooh... Portable hole!

Put a portable hole on a decent-sized board.
Swipe the portable hole around the Rope Trick window.
Cast Dimension Lock into the portable hole.
Close the hole.
Go elsewhere.
Open hole up in your trapped area.
Dispel the Dimension Lock.
Wait for the Rope Trick to expire.


Can I? Do I know where I'm plane shifting?

You need a focus specific to that plane. Good luck figuring it out. However: If you can get around the need for a focus (such as, say, an Astral Deva's Plane Shift) you're probably good to go.

[Crake]

I'm really astonished at how often D&D warns/promises mechanical effects, then totally neglects to supply them.

Those lines are there to allow DMs leeway with homebrew material for the most part. You'll notice sending and teleport likewise have similar clauses that give the DM leeway to say "Nope, XYZ is causing interference, stopping you from communicating with people easily/teleporting around easily".

[Segev]

It may behoove us to ask what level-ish the OP is looking at. Is this a wizard who is in the 3-6 range for whom rope trick is one of his higher-level spell slots, or is this a nigh-epic wizard in the 17-20 range for whom rope trick is a low-level spell cast because it's trivial compared to the magnificent mansion he's saving for this evening?

[iTreeby]

It may behoove us to ask what level-ish the OP is looking at. Is this a wizard who is in the 3-6 range for whom rope trick is one of his higher-level spell slots, or is this a nigh-epic wizard in the 17-20 range for whom rope trick is a low-level spell cast because it's trivial compared to the magnificent mansion he's saving for this evening?

Well the op is talking about using gate and wish sooo

[Pleh]

Well the op is talking about using gate and wish sooo

That's been called an expensive option, though. They're not casting gate or wish, they're paying an arm and a leg for it.

I'd tend to doubt a high level wizard would continue to be troubled by these goons. He could have dominated the boss and been given the amulet to begin with.

[aviary]

Oooh... Portable hole!

Put a portable hole on a decent-sized board.
Swipe the portable hole around the Rope Trick window.
Cast Dimension Lock into the portable hole.
Close the hole.
Go elsewhere.
Open hole up in your trapped area.
Dispel the Dimension Lock.
Wait for the Rope Trick to expire.

This is an amazing solution. The more I think about it too, the more I'm convinced this is how I can move a permanently activated immovable rod.


Those lines are there to allow DMs leeway with homebrew material for the most part. You'll notice sending and teleport likewise have similar clauses that give the DM leeway to say "Nope, XYZ is causing interference, stopping you from communicating with people easily/teleporting around easily".

This line of thought makes sense to me, at least when it comes restricting things like teleportation or polymorph effects, or just magic effects overall, but I really suspect more than a few of these "hanging implications" are dropped mechanics. One of the other popular threads right now is discussing exactly when PCs can lose the limbs that regeneration is supposed to regrow, a surprisingly tricky question to answer. And in 5e, paladins get disease immunity, though there is neither a diseased condition nor a disease damage type.

Did Wizards really think that limb dismemberment and disease mechanics are best relegated to DM homebrew? Hmm...


It may behoove us to ask what level-ish the OP is looking at. Is this a wizard who is in the 3-6 range for whom rope trick is one of his higher-level spell slots, or is this a nigh-epic wizard in the 17-20 range for whom rope trick is a low-level spell cast because it's trivial compared to the magnificent mansion he's saving for this evening?

Essentially, I'm the DM designing a situation and trying to figure out what the players' options are. This is not intended to be a difficult combat encounter, and I'm assuming that if the wizard is X level, then the mob's brought along at least one of their own X level mages, so there's some symmetry here (that is, we don't have to talk about the wizard just leaving the rope trick and dominating everyone, 'cause we're just as dangerous).

I am asking for the "cheapest" solution and trying to determine what the appropriate challenge level is for forcing wizards out of their rope trick. Which is why I'm not happy with wish as a solution, since level 17 characters don't typically get into brawls in inns, nor would they be particularly scared of approaching town guards. Nor would they be squabbling over a stolen necklace, since you can't really steal from level 17 characters, in my experience. :P

[noob]

This is an amazing solution. The more I think about it too, the more I'm convinced this is how I can move a permanently activated immovable rod.



This line of thought makes sense to me, at least when it comes restricting things like teleportation or polymorph effects, or just magic effects overall, but I really suspect more than a few of these "hanging implications" are dropped mechanics. One of the other popular threads right now is discussing exactly when PCs can lose the limbs that regeneration is supposed to regrow, a surprisingly tricky question to answer. And in 5e, paladins get disease immunity, though there is neither a diseased condition nor a disease damage type.

Did Wizards really think that limb dismemberment and disease mechanics are best relegated to DM homebrew? Hmm...



Essentially, I'm the DM designing a situation and trying to figure out what the players' options are. This is not intended to be a difficult combat encounter, and I'm assuming that if the wizard is X level, then the mob's brought along at least one of their own X level mages, so there's some symmetry here (that is, we don't have to talk about the wizard just leaving the rope trick and dominating everyone, 'cause we're just as dangerous).

I am asking for the "cheapest" solution and trying to determine what the appropriate challenge level is for forcing wizards out of their rope trick. Which is why I'm not happy with wish as a solution, since level 17 characters don't typically get into brawls in inns, nor would they be particularly scared of approaching town guards. Nor would they be squabbling over a stolen necklace, since you can't really steal from level 17 characters, in my experience. :P

I said an easy way would be transdimensional spell with area of effect damage over time(incendiary for or acid fog or cloudkill are good for wiping the team but you can probably find a lower level spell with damage over time on an area).
Since transdimensional spell is a +1 metamagic and is situational but very powerful in the right situations it is the kind of meta-magic commonly written with a spell on a scroll rather than used in normal times and since it is commonly written in scrolls by their users then it means that by looting the wizards that have that metamagic those are obtainable way easier than scrolls of wish.(since after being looted most people sells them unless they have the kind of team which would have the kind of wizard that takes that metamagic and you do not need ninth level spells to be able to write scrolls of spells with that metamagic)

[Calthropstu]

To be clear, I'm the DM in question. I'm happy to make QoL rulings in favor of the players, e.g. the solutions mentioned above, but in practice the reason I'm asking this question is because I'm interested in what immediate, RAW solutions are available to players with system mastery.

I'm thinking I'd rule no on dispelling the rope trick since it's: 1) cast on the rope, and 2) the rope is on another plane (when pulled up). The window can't be seen through, so it's hard to imagine how a caster would use it to hit the rope on another plane.

I don't know how I feel about using Disable Device. I'll read up on that link to see what precedents there are.

The closest solution I can see right now is the nested dimensions trick, i.e.



though no details are given as to what happens if I create the describe hazards above.

See invisibility? That would allow them to see the window which would allow them to send someone up there or cast dispel through it.

[Jack_Simth]

This is an amazing solution. The more I think about it too, the more I'm convinced this is how I can move a permanently activated immovable rod.You can get it out of the way that way, but... well, you're going to have problems getting it back out of the portable hole.

Still, I'm glad you like.

[Telonius]

Well, there is the "neener neener" solution.

Cast Rope Trick and wait for the other guy to come out first.